Moraghan Training - Stevie G

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  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭
    Those push up things help. When I was on the way down, instinctively, I knew I could save the worst simply by taking the impact through my arms. The rest of the job was executed with a well timed roll.

    Needless to say I was lucky that I had room to do all of this. A cliff top path or a patch covered in 'items' might have had a different outcome.

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭

    I "always" (ahem, apart from when I forget!) have an ID band on my arm these days.

    Cheap - no real impact, but could help down the line!

  • The 20 mile 2.07 was not an all out race effort nor was the 1.18 half. With both I ran conservatively at the end of a big week with an eye on another big week to follow. A couple of the guys around me at Newport half ran the same 20 in just under 2 hours and did race both events (had a chat with them afterwards).

    That is not to say I think 2.45 is possible. I think it's a stretch too because I've not had the best of campaigns, particularly with respect to the long runs. However I found the 1.18 half relatively straightforward to such an extent that it had me thinking that a 1.22 half would leave me some slack for the harder part of the marathon. Who knows though, the runs in the past week have been pretty poor by comparison to the 'I'm the depths of training' efforts :confused:

    Hope you're feeling improved by Sunday Joe and well done on the 10k equal pb under those circumstances.

  • Reg WandReg Wand ✭✭✭
    I don't get the ID band thing, unless you have special medical needs like, monkey AIDS or something, what's the point? It's not like finding a dog with no collar, oh this runner has no ID, we'll have to just take him to be destroyed, shame.
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭
    edited April 25
    It's pretty clear son.

    Instantly being able to identify someone and contact the relevant people to stop a lot of worry.

    I simply have " sg off rw world fame. Please get in touch with the mtsg lads and one will come and fetch me" on mine
  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭
    Reg Wand said:
    I don't get the ID band thing, unless you have special medical needs like, monkey AIDS or something, what's the point? It's not like finding a dog with no collar, oh this runner has no ID, we'll have to just take him to be destroyed, shame.
    It's for when you are unconscious or dead.

    With no ID on you, your identity is only resolved when someone files a 'missing person' to the police, who then have to waste time checking out hospitals etc.

    Whether or not you give a damn about that is another matter. 

    I carry ID.
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭
    It's certainty something that a race collapse makes you think about.
    I got to the finish and went down. In my local race with family there.

    Imagine if it wasn't in a race or was 100miles away..or was a mid race blackout or worse.


    I'll stick with a simple band.
    And filling the stuff out on the back of the race entry too.
    (Bar maidy ten...but having tonnes of clubmates helped!)


    Even the ealing mile makes you give a contact now!!
  • JooliganJooligan ✭✭✭
    Reg Wand said:

    Not much from me, just easy running. Off on a cycling weekend tomorrow but there's a storm on Saturday so I will probably bin the ride for a fell run. Anyone done the Big Cheese? It's in Cheddar surprisingly. When I ask that question I am only really looking at Jools! I was planning on following the route.
    Did the first one Reg. It was won by Tom Lowe in about 1:28!! 2nd place was over 10 minutes back! He was having a pre-season wu with newly retired Chrissie Wellington who ran 1:45 IIRC. I had a cracking run tbh though it did affect my marathon as it was the 2nd of 5 consecutive weekend long races which I did: Rhayader 20M PB, Big Cheese, San Domenico 30K, Forest of Dean HM another 1:28 then Brighton where I did get a PB of 3:16 but missed the GFA target. The last 4 also had parkruns involved too :D
    Here's my strava https://www.strava.com/activities/121269127
  • Reg WandReg Wand ✭✭✭
    Cheers Jools, might be 50 mph winds the day I head up there, is it particularly exposed, should I take ID :D
  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭
    I've said it before Jools, and I'll say it again - you are bonkers :smiley:

    Carrying ID also saves a bit of time if there's the "should we switch off the life-support now or find the family first?" type scenarios as well as potentially unnecessary worry for relatives. They are also useful to tell medics that you DON'T have any special conditions that would stop you having a specific procedure or medication if you can't tell them yourself. Anything that reduces delay has got to be a good thing surely?

    Ric - I had one like that years back on Cribyn (scene of Jools race t'other day funnily enough!). A couple of walkers were watching me descend when I tripped, on a very steep, but fortunately grassy section, close to a sheer edge. I made up for looking stoopid by somehow performing a perfect forward roll straight back into a run, barely breaking stride. I even gave them a jolly "how do" as I went past as if nothing had happened :smiley:
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭
    edited April 26

     ID it Reg, even if it's writing "REG FROM SG THREAD" on you somewhere, and a contact number. Can save everyone some time.


    To think we tick Pete off for messing about racing parkruns the day before actual target races, and there's Jools taking it to even sillier levels :o


    Good luck Muddy - hit it hard. No zone below effort jobs talk, just a bigtime 2.45, or at least quicker than Phil Montague Jones's 2.50. :)

    2.50! And there's me thinking if I did one i'd try and slip under 3hours. I'd never get away with it would I! Luckily I won't do one, as I've never once finished a long run and thought, "I fancied loads more there".

    Even the "Big time" part of me, that loves a GSR, or bigger races doesn't get it.


    Anyway, F OFF (work) today, so my little recent route for a 14miler.

    7.05, similar to recent efforts.

    300 feet or so worked in over miles 2-5 and mile 7, and then the payback from 10.5miles onwards with a gradual dip, then a 300 feet down. Before a flattish mile then done.


    I think the hard work when you do that length run and have a day off, is to actually want to do anything else the rest of the day!

  • JooliganJooligan ✭✭✭
    They were definitely not all flat out parkruns SG however I do have form. I've done a parkrun before every Sunday marathon from VLM 2012 onwards & even did one before my first IronMan in Tenby. I've got carried away a couple of times notably Abo16 (19:20) & VLM17 (19:22) though both felt relatively easy efforts as I was in great shape & tapered. I even managed a 21:04 parkrun immediately before my Man v Horse PB in 2016 & a 22:04 as wu for Snowdonia 17 - both Saturday races D 
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭

    Even though I love racking up stats and races and all that, I don't think i'll ever get the parkrun obsession thing a lot of people have - where in all situations they just "have" to do one.

    Probably a lot down to sat morns just feeling the last time of the week I want to either be up, or be working hard!

  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭
    I'm not surprised about the ability to race week after week. Ever since my clubs 'marathon week' competition where I discovered everyone just went full out on consecutive days. 

    The competition is also testing since it's made up of a Hill race, XC, a sand run of all things, road and track. All adding up to a marathon distance. One quirk I noticed was that the time people ended up with, was similar to the time they could run a marathon in.

    My one go at the event got me sub 3 hours - just.

    Running lots of races back to back therefore is possible. Though being disappointed at the results and shipping plenty of damage is also possible.

    I'm still of the opinion that the body will only endure a set quantity of self inflicted damage before it puts the brakes on.

    After that it's a case of either limiting the damage, or having enough patience to wait until the body is ready to go again.

  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭
    Right then. That's another session knocked off. This time in high(ish) winds.

    Two mile warm up, session of 40/20's x 40 off, two mile warm down. Felt good. HR averaged 158 bpm and peaked at 165 bpm.

    Within the session I went through 5 miles in just under 38 minutes, having gone through 5k in around 23:30!

    Would I do a session like that within a parkrun? I don't think so. Training is one thing, taking the piss something else.
  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭
    Jeez! Anyone seen the wind direction for tomorrow?

    Those doing the 'London' are in for a tough one. 13mph from the NW, which means predominantly into it for the duration. 
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭

    Do you see more value in doing these stop-start type sessions than just a tempo Ric?

    Or even just longer reps at the race pace?

  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭
    edited April 27
    SG,  tempos or long reps at race pace are good as a proof of current ability, but that's all. They provide useful information from which we can formulate sessions that lead to us running the things faster if we wish.

    The point is, to run faster, you have to train faster. Tempos or long reps at race pace aren't faster than current ability, they're slower. So won't make you faster. They'll make you tired, but not faster.

    But training faster doesn't have to mean hurting yourself more, or putting in greater effort.

    That session isn't flat out. It can't be. If I tried, I couldn't get the volume in. But if I tried the volume in one continuous run, I'd have to run a lot slower than I do when doing forty second bursts with twenty seconds to recover enough to repeat it several times, for the same distance.

    For whats its worth. Once the session was under way, my HR would drop to maybe 158 bpm on the recovery and after a delayed reaction get to maybe 162 bpm at the end of the run. There would be a slight ramp up of a couple of bpm before coming back down a notch.

    What I end up with is five miles of running with an average HR of 158 bpm, but at a pace maybe 30 seconds per mile faster than a continuous run at the same HR.

    That will make me faster. And already has. I've done the session seven times now. The average speed of the accumulated miles within the session has gone from 9 minutes down to today's 7:36.
     
    That's a function of speed, meaning I go further now each 40 seconds worth than I did a few weeks back. If you realise there's 20 seconds of dossing about within each minute, you might get an idea of how fast I'm going when actually moving.

    So I don't do tempos unless feeling like a blow out. And the long reps; if I ever get that far, will only be from 600m to 1000m, but fast with long recoveries.
    By fast I mean by the end of the rep, I'm hanging on. The recovery needs to be at least double the time it took me to run.

    5 or 6 of those will be at a much faster pace than I could run in one go. There's then a reason for adaptation to go faster.

  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭
    Things have moved on a bit. Session yesterday and today a long run which I made up as I went along. It's a combination that has taken a while to put together.

    17 miles, average pace 8:30's, average HR 140 bpm, second half 3% faster than the first despite there being 30% more accents.

    Judging by the finish times at the 'London', the conditions must have been a plus. Cool conditions better than heat despite the wind.
  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭
    That's a big LSR Ric. Couldn't help wondering whether the second half went faster as you were speaking in comedy French, Irish and Welsh accents instead of just the Italian and Scottish in the first half :smiley:

    Before the race reports come in, quick update from me. Some progress on the back. mornings are still very stiff and painful, and sitting for any length of time is a no-no, but I'd eased up enough by early evening yesterday by walking and stretching to try an easy jog of 4.5M, running in a convoluted loop so as not to go too far from home. Today I was very stiff, until a lunchtime walk, but as the run yesterday seemingly had no ill effects, I chanced my arm with a ten. The run itself was fine, if slow, but I suspect I may pay for my optimism in the morning....
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭

    17 miler Ric? You don't half leap around with your running :D

    Sorry to hear about your morning stiffness Bus. A few years ago I sort of locked my hamstrings attempting some Pilates stuff Lit had shown me a video on youtube of (ok, I did WAYYYY too much  too soon, so my fault ;) ), and they were super tight for about 6months. One day they just sort of eased. Hope you get some sort of similar magic (without the 6month thing!!)


    Last Manchester game of the season. Best bit was the meet up with Big Pete. Not a vintage game, but I actually saw a United goal!!! But 2 wins in 10 games, with only 4 United goals is beyond jinx nonsense!


    A guy on the metro up there was sporting his medal. A couple of oldies were annoyed he didn't give up the "Priority" seat, but I stood up for him saying in fairness, his need was greater today :)

    Got chatting, and he'd done a 3.26, and something like a 3min negative split, so he's obvs got more to give. Let me examine the medal, and it's one huge tidy piece of kit.

    Enough to make me want to do one?  Behave son.

  • Ahoy gang. Quick check in from me. I won't throw the whole report in now, will save that for the blog so SG has got something to get excited for.

    Decent turnout for me in London, battled hard but not my best executed race. Wanted to give it a real nudge, so went out hard (too hard, 5km - 18:06, halfway - 1:18:36), but knew from about mile 10 I'd dealt myself a world of pain.

    Figured I was invested so might as well see what I was made of. Not the most fun way to run and marathon, and I started to slow from about mile 20 by about 10-15 secs a mile, with the HR dropping slightly.

    Just about held it together, and with 5km to go realised I might actually still sneak under 2:40. Threw the kitchen sink at it, and ended up with a 2:39:57. 9 seconds slower than my PB, but I'm actually probably more proud of this one, with Valencia I think being a faster course/conditions on the day.

    Really had to answer some questions on the home stretch, and was absolutely broken at the end, took me a good few hours to start feeling human again. 
  • muddyfunstermuddyfunster ✭✭✭
    edited April 29
    Well done Joe.
    I have my first ever DNF to report sadly. I was running a bit slower than pb pace and not feeling that good (running hot and cold) for the first 8 miles, then feeling worse as I went on. I decided to stop after 15 miles so as not to run myself into the ground. I tried a 'can I just get round?' much slower pair of miles but it was clear I would be suffering for no reason. Hopefully it's nothing serious and I am just under the weather. 

    It truly is a walk/tube train of shame heading back to the baggage area though :#
  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭
    edited April 29
    Well done Joe and tough one Muddy.

    I hit the wall once in the London and felt like giving up and getting the train back to the finish area. I asked someone the way and all they did was point down the course. 

    'Ok, the finish is that way, just keep going'.

    SG, Definition of junk mileage: Not far enough for building endurance. Too fast for recovery purposes and not fast or intensive enough to stimulate adaptive processes.

    I guess proper training means leaping about then. 

  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭
    Long run progression then: Feb 17 -12.06 miles, Mar 2 - 13.33, (Apr 2 -14.46, April 4 - 14.46, April 7 - 15.04)*, Apr 13 - 15.08, Apr 28 - 17.00.

    * Endurance block 

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭
    edited April 29


    Muddy / Joe - two different ends of the marathon spectrum there!

    Good sense in a difficult position there Muddy - I dare say a lot of people would have struggled it on to a point of total discombobulation. Then spent ages ruined. 15miles is still a tidy day's mileage as a worst case consolation!

    Joe - pretty much to perfection that one! Some of the better lads from my lot were working off HM x2 +17-19m mins, and you've done x2 +8 or so! Built for longer disto - simple as that.

    Saw a guy who it was only a few years ago at Staines that I was only say 45secs or so behind at 10k, doing his first half in 1hr 13, before what he calls a crumble - but still doing about 2.34! He's come on!!!

    Ric - nice set of long runs. Going up to 20? Or is that now the peak, with Staines only 2 weeks off?


    Our Endure 24 team of 8 was sorted, but today one guy has pulled out, as his mate booked a holiday clashing.


    Just what the frig.  This is a £72 entry job - and he booked it with us about 10months ago!

  • Well done Joe.
    I have my first ever DNF to report sadly. I was running a bit slower than pb pace and not feeling that good (running hot and cold) for the first 8 miles, then feeling worse as I went on. I decided to stop after 15 miles so as not to run myself into the ground. I tried a 'can I just get round?' much slower pair of miles but it was clear I would be suffering for no reason. Hopefully it's nothing serious and I am just under the weather. 

    It truly is a walk/tube train of shame heading back to the baggage area though :#
    I had similar happen in 2014: training was heavily compromised in the last few weeks with a big bout of gout and I got to Tower Bridge in 1:22 and was working way too hard and knew the second half was not going to be pretty so tube back to the start and actually got there before the elites. It was a good decision: the body did not suffer and I was back to full speed a few weeks later. I actually had a lot of trouble getting into the baggage area.
  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭
    Definitely the peak SG.

     It was the easiest of all the long runs, but more significant was that I didn't have a rest day before it. 

    I had a choice at 13 miles which was pay £2 for a bottle of some blue coloured stuff, or £1+ for a bottle of water and go do 20 miles, or keep the money and go straight home.
    I wasn't thirsty so just went home. Damned if I'm paying the rip off prices of a petrol station.

    My mistake really. My usual routes take me past shops selling 'Boost'. Not only has this become a mainstay of my endurance running. It's also really cheap.

    However, I wouldn't drink this for recreation purposes. I'd be bouncing off the walls if I did.

    Shame about Endure as well. I'm told that the modern way is to treat what used to be regarded as commitments as options.

    Lets face it. People now let others down as a life style choice.
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭
    They certainly do. I work to a strict do what i commit to policy, certainly with arrangements affecting others.

    Stuff can happen like illness, and we've no doubt all missed a race like that. But double booking!

    5&4 today. First double in a week. Back to work tomorrow. Feels like ages.
  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭
    The Bus said:

    Before the race reports come in, quick update from me. Some progress on the back. mornings are still very stiff and painful, and sitting for any length of time is a no-no, but I'd eased up enough by early evening yesterday by walking and stretching to try an easy jog of 4.5M, running in a convoluted loop so as not to go too far from home. Today I was very stiff, until a lunchtime walk, but as the run yesterday seemingly had no ill effects, I chanced my arm with a ten. The run itself was fine, if slow, but I suspect I may pay for my optimism in the morning....

    So what happened?
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