Moraghan Training - Stevie G



  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭
    edited July 2019

    Actual pb!  <3<3
    The legs are back, and some. Beautiful - and not at all expected! Funny old game.

    It felt like it went next to perfectly - while wondering if there's a tickle more in there.
    That Friday session unleashing those 300s off long recoveries definitely helped, as did the 8x400 the week before.
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭
    Only slight disappointment was the big man Joe had rucked off home.
    But not before I'd embarrassed myself shouting "Joe" at some random geezer in Clapham colours...who turned and showed his non JB status...

    As well as me then remembering JB wasn't racing, so wasn't even in their gear. Whoops.

    Back to work carpark by about 9.15, for then my actual drive home! Midnight finally getting to sleeps!
  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭
    edited July 2019
    That's very quick SG, and a PB 9 years on is something to be pretty chuffed about :smiley:

    It also suggests some very good leg speed, which could translate into some pretty speedy 5ks on the right day, on the right course.

    As for me, I had a very easy week last week of just 32M, with my longest run just 7.5M. Combination of wanting to give the legs a rest and a big dose of CBA!  Oddly, tonight, after a double yesterday and hilly 7.5 the day before I actually ran one of my fastest off-roaders for a while - despite the heat :smile: Might pay for it tomorrow mind, as work commitment mean a double tomorrow is the only workable option, heading for the LSR on Saturday and off to Scotland next week for lots of rain, midges and big climbs :smile:

  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭
    Stevie G said:
    Easy Ric - we've only just got back to an even keel after your last dig at people :D
    Do you ever wonder if it's the criticism you dish to certain posters that makes them less keen to post as much?

    Like life you have to accept others have different motivations, aims and likes.  You barely ever race for instance, which is fine, but the boat you're in is very different to some of the other guys, who have to risk the occasional break down to hit their times.

    But enough downer - I have a race report, and for the first race for a while it was a goodun :)
    I keep forgetting SG, this thread has rules of its own. 

    Anyway, reality. That's a damn good mile. Such a short distance, it's difficult to gauge whether or not you're over cooking things, or did, until you've finished.

    I guess that's why a few runs at those distances is required. Fitness being one component, but getting a balanced effort maybe more.

    I did the same over the past few days with a Strava segment on the bike. The record was just under 12 minutes for an undulating average up hill stretch. Over a thousand have had a go at it.

    Yesterday I did 12:57 in the broiling heat. The HR moniter got me at an average rate of 161 bpm which is the level I'm now condemned to race at. I can force the rate higher, but the physical demands needed to do that, put me into an oxygen debt. 

    It's a chicken and egg scenario. I make the effort, and the old bod hopefully responds with what HR is required. However, what happens is that I make an effort worthy of a HR of 190 bpm; a rate that was once available, and instead, the most that is delivered is (yesterday) 166 bpm. Oxygen debt assured.

    That's age for you. I can't be any fitter or conditioned than right now. If I starved off 5kg I might go faster, but the risk of injury increases along with muscle mass. There's a trade off. I used to do that once, but dealing with niggles was part of the deal. 

    Anyway my 12:57 put me top of the list for this year, and no other old git is anywhere near at all.

    However, if Peter Stainer (ex clubmate my age) became involved, I could kiss that one goodbye. He runs and cycles. Did a 19 minute parkrun off next to no running and 57 minutes for a 25 mile TT last year.

    The wider picture is that if either Reg or Joe had a go at the segment. Either of them could slaughter the absolute fastest time. The days they go out and 'have a go', shows up on Strava as a string of KOM's.

    Know your limits  :/

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭
    No special rules Ric - just a bid to keep the few regular posters we have - we don't want this thread to basically become anecdote ping pong between you and me!

    Those segments are the same for all of us aren't they. Subject to some animal deciding to show up and hoover them up.
    I've had my obsession with those now. After an initial burst, it's quite hard to justify fitting them in.

    Shame I didn't have strava when I used to do some of my tempo rampages across town! That'd have set people some challenges - to follow the same route if nothing else!
  • SG - Great racing there - you 35 yet? If so we need to do the Westminster Mile next year! Battersea seems to be the place to be at the moment. Welcome to the 'shouting at the wrong bloke club' - been there many times!!

    Bus - bet that will be nice next week, I'd fancy a bit of that tbf. Good cycling Ric.

    So down to the rugby club grass last night, 8 x 600 off 80. Stupidly hot when I left work, but by 6pm in Luton it wasn't too bad, quite breezy, which this time really helped. It actually wasn't as hot as I had feared. started with a 2.00 and got them down to 1.50 for the last one. Not too bad for the weather and the grass which was a tad long.

    Keeping powder dry now until the MK 5,000M on Saturday.

  • StevieWhStevieWh ✭✭✭
    Excellent work SG and congrats on the new PB! 

    You seem to be going well Ric, I miss cycling when the weather is like this. Will have to get back on the bike at some point!

    Good session SC, I didn't think last night was too bad either.

    Tune up session of 12 x 1min (90s) last night, just did out and back from home so I could have water every 2nd rep. Felt pretty good so pleased to see them all come out at around or below 5k pace. Just some 200s on Thursday before Saturdays race now
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭
    edited July 2019
    SC - We've spoken at length at at least one masters relays, but I appreciate you thinking I'm still young :D 
    That Westminster mile is a definite must do. I can only imagine it's Battersea Park's better brother in quality. Timing sometimes seems awkward, but I guess it's a game of make it a priority.

    Nice session - sounds similar vibe to Dashers hills last night. Certainly don't normally do quality the day after a race, but after a mile I thought it was ok.

    Just before the session I felt a tender bit on my knee, and noticed I had a bit of an "egg". But the session went fine, so probs just a slight bite - it's down this morn.

    4x4mins, hill loop. A shorter version of the 6x4 in winter.

    Utterly machine gunned off 1st rep, and (wrongly) thought someone was right on my heel. Turned round at the end, and noone was within 100metres, as someone had dropped out early doors :disappointed:

    The next 3 slowed, as it was still hot, albeit a bit breezy.
    It's funny - I can go months without going near the club - yet that's basically 2 club pal related outings in 2 days - shows me it's key to things to keep in more with them.
    I'm probably going to be on the club's board next year - albeit in a shared role - men's captain job. Not entirely sure how it'll work - but I dare say I'll go all in, as you may have noticed I'm a very all or nothing character!!

    Good luck on Sat SW - you're in for a good set of progressions pb wise I'm certain.

    While you're a long old way ahead of a guy at my club - you're in the same boat of having some pb destroying times ahead.

    He's on the up - he has a 1hr 34 half marathon pb, but I noticed he did something like a 7.30 10.5miler last week with clubmates!

    A 10.5miler 20secs a mile slower than you HM pb, feeling decent, says it all. I think he'll utterly machine gun through that 1hr 30 barrier by spring next year.
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭
    So last week of July then - racing plans...

    There's 2 Battersea Park 5ks left - I'll do at least one.

    Murder Mile next Friday - will follow that up with the Penallta parkrun the morning after most probably.

    Still a chance of getting in for the last of the series at either Gosport 5k, or the Rose Inn Welsh 4miler. The latter is tempting, as I wouldn't have to go anywhere near full beans to smash my pb - could I have 2x 2019 pbs on the record? But Gosport just is a nice place to race.


    Scotty, or Jools around to help influence the decision?
  • StevieWhStevieWh ✭✭✭
    Sounds like hes got some potential SG! If that run felt a comfortable effort then he has a lot to come over the half. Im looking forward to hopefully revising my half PB in September
  • Ric - absolutely love that bike. Proper old school. Very envious. 

    SG - top work Monday. Sorry I didn't get a chance to catch you afterwards, we had to dash off. Great running though - a mile time I can only dream of! Really hard to spot people during the first leg as well, people running both ways, utter carnage. Wasn't one bit jealous that I wasn't running.. Let me know when you're going to be at BP for the 5km and I'll try and pop down.

    Having a proper couple of easy training now, but I do have Ride London at the end of that period next Sunday.

    Then will slowly start getting back into proper run shape with a tilt at marathon PB in Valencia in December...
  • SG - Oh yeah forgot you do the masters relays! The mile was great this year, being around 1 ish. Better than doing an open race at 9am isn't it. Its an early late May BH next year, sunday 24th and Monday 25th. Good as my kid is 10 on the 28th ;)

    Penallta is right next to Blackwood - do they play Manics tracks when the PR is on? 'Faster' would be a great choice...

  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭
    Cheers Joe, here's another pic of the old workhorse. Has a Mercier frame.

  • Nice Ric! I remember when I got my Raleigh Sun Solo for passing my 11+. Chuffed!

    SG- Cheeky HHH win at the relays then, The two Andrews and LL, think the times were 4.32,4.35, 4.38. 
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭
    Yep. Going to take some beating.
    Although the mixed winners had the fastest two blokes. 4.29 and maybe 4.31ish from memory?

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭
    Joe - monday coming at bp looks very likely.
    Let's hope it's eased off temp wise!
  • StevieWhStevieWh ✭✭✭
    Forgot to say Joe, really enjoyed the blog. Incredible effort just to finish an Ironman let alone it that time when not on your A game. Very honest as well
  • Go for Gosport SG. I think taking a shot at a real 5km PB or quick time is better than doing a race or distance that's not meaning much in that sense especially if you are in form and can run a sub 5 mile.. 

    No cost for entry obviously. 

    Pain is weakness leaving the body
  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭
    Temperatures already well on the way up, but a three hour run already in the bag.

    That said, the idea of an IM triathlon does not appeal. Iron Man! hmm. I reckon I'm something between Soft Vegetation and Wood Man.
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭
    How close is Norfolk again Ric? August, or Sep?

    Scott - a generous offer big man - that last line certainly makes Gosport the favourite now!!
  • Fairlands Valley (Stevenage) relays postponed tonight because of the heat! Good job I'm not doing it or I'd be RAGING :)

    Bloody wusses. starts at 7.30 and it's only 3k too.

  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭
    September SG.

    Been out on the bike. Legs good. Weight back to normal. Beers and watching TDF and cricket  :)
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭
    SC - while I put in a pair of 4s today, including one just then to "feel" what the extreme of 36 feeling like 41 is, I can see how it'd be a little on the suicidal side to race tonight!

    Remember not everyone is as fit and heroic as you son.

    Keep it going Ric - we want you to make this one! Don't peak too soon!
  • Reg WandReg Wand ✭✭✭
    edited July 2019
    107 posts is just too much to read back on but I got through a couple of pages, the stand-outs being Ric's bike which is very cool and Ric's photo of himself which was....well let's move on.

    Nice mile PB SG, must be satisfying.

    Joe - Well done at Roth great performance and a cracking half too.

    I am sure there's much more to read back on in due course.

    My lack of posting is mainly down to my lack of training. Mainly because of the injury from the bike crash which is still giving me trouble and it must be 6 weeks ago now. Done a couple of short runs a week but struggling to heal this injury.

    Cycling hurts a bit too but not as much so I've been riding to work but not much else. All this doesn't explain the TT race I did tonight. It was the 10 mile club championship which doubles as a competition with Maidenhead Cycling club. Previous efforts I'd done just under 22 minutes when much fitter but tonight I did 21:15! That's 28.5 mph and 335 watts and maxed out at 194 bpm on the heart rate. Finished second overall, there was a guy there from the Henley AS Test Team who broke the course record with 19:15! Won the club award though.

    I am hoping that I can get running again soon as it would be nice to combine the cycling form with running and do a triathlon before the summer finishes.
  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭
    Cheers SG. I'm hitting a peak within limits. Not so much about what I'm doing, more a case of what I'm not doing.

    Doing less more often has led to what I do being better. I compare last December to now. I prefer now. 

    Reg, shame the niggle hasn't repaired yet. However, judging by your TT result, I'd say the benefits of reduced training over several weeks is now coming through. You are now peaking properly.

    In the book 'Winning Without Drugs' (again), there's a chapter on doing that.

    In essence, one has to ditch everything that isn't either a race effort or recovery. The efforts become more extreme while the rest periods become more protracted.

    I wouldn't be surprised that if you waited a few days, you could nail another fast one. 

    When I did my best 25 mile TT, it came after a series of half distance blasts at race effort, every two or three days beforehand. 

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭
    Along the lines of my mile Reggie - an unexpected top result! Funny old game for sure.

    Sooner you than me doing long runs right now Ric.
    Sunday 12-13s have felt a long way the last 2 weekends.

    Since the hill reps Tue, I've limited to 4 and4.5mile doubles each day.
    No need for heroics right now. A few little race bits and pieces race wise next week.
  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭
    SG, It helps that when going well, I like running miles and miles for the fun of it.

    I was amused yesterday that without strain, I'd finished a 21 mile run by 8:45.

    To be fair, if it was 8:45 before I set out, I doubt if a long run would have been on the cards. Maybe 18, 15, 12, 8 miles, but not 20 plus.
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭
    edited July 2019
    If I was doing a 20 mile run, I dare say the rest of the day would be a sleep write off. Unless I had the discipline to keep it properly slow. 

    ie 45-60secs slower than 12-13mile "easy" run pace.
    Sort of get used to paces don't you.

    At the start of this thread, when Moz said run no quicker than 7.24 (i think?) for easy, i'd obviously got used to way too much middle ground "steady" work, as it literally felt like the slowest run - so slow that people would look and stare at what this idiot was doing going so slowly.
    That was how culture shock it felt.

    Never ever felt that "easy" again in the 9 years of this thread since - I adjusted to that being the norm, rather than a vert constrained effort.
  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭
    edited July 2019
    When I run these things SG, I make a point of avoiding an intensity that brings lungs and hard breathing into the equation.

    It's a fine line. Average HR for easy ends up being about 140 bpm, whereas threshold kicks in at about 150 bpm. Race effort as said before is about 160 bpm.

    That said, I'm not dictated to by the HR moniter, I just run to feel and cross check the read out.

    I don't use it (HR Monitor) much, just now and again.

    As for the big sleep after a long run. I try to emulate the Fell runner Joss Naylor. He'd do a twenty mile run, taking 3 -4 hours. Get home, have a wash down, grab a piece of his wife's cake with a cup of tea and then get back to work. All part of a day.

    I would say that from the information about your breathing on your longest runs, you're operating at threshold. It isn't tempo pace which is even faster, but it does indicate a bit of force being applied.

    In 2013 when I last ran the RNR, I ran two 20's in training which both averaged 7:37 miling. I was pushing the pace doing those, going in and out of the threshold zone. That involved some hills whereas in the event itself, it was nigh on flat, but I only averaged 6:28 pace. 

    Feels easier now, even at close to those former average paces, but the limiting factor that now determines my race pace would possibly make even 6:45 mile pace ambitious.

    Doesn't matter really. Chugging along in the event at 7 something mile pace, with the odd beer along the route would still be up there. Others do it. 

    Looks a lot more appealing than the intense racing mentality I used to keep. 

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭
    edited July 2019

    Just to be clear, my Sunday runs aren't anywhere near threshold.
    Ever. By even the loosest definition.

    May sometimes slip into "steady" but threshold by most people's definition is ten mile race pace or an hour.

    If im racing a hot ten in april at 5.57 then 7.15 being threshold either means i have an incredible range, have a superhuman ability to race way beyond threshold or have lost an outrageous amount of fitness in a few months.

    Plus I would have an absolutely amazing invincibility to be able to knock out on average 57-60miles a week at threshold or quicker, for year on end :o

    2015 forever made me over focus on breathing, hence sometimes mentioning being breathy.
    But make no mistake, the difference even when mentioning that, and actual threshold or efforts is huge.

    I've walked up a tiny hill on the way to wycombe ground at maybe 16min miling a few times and thought ooh breathy before


    I would put the breathing into the "niggle" locker. Over focusing on training runs at times, totally disappears when it matters.

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