Moraghan Training - Stevie G

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  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭
    SG, my checks show that threshold is about 83% of what I can sustain in a distance race.
    But it's a grey area. Threshold is a very narrow band. It's that little bit of extra push going up a hill sort of thing.

    Ten mile race pace! sounds a bit sharp.
    However, I'm aware that it's been done. One has to be well on top of one's game to put that one away.

    At the other end of the scale, I picked up a copy of the Complete Distance Runners Handbook and the paces it recommended leading to target race time were so slow that I could hardly believe them. So I didn't.

    Probably took another decade before discovering there might have been something in it.



  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭
    Another longish one in the book this morning. Not sure if to believe the average pace since the Garmin was all over the place.

    Seems I went along one half mile stretch at a near effortless 5:30 (that would be handy) and at around the nine mile point, it decided I was doing 12 minute miles plus plus. In fact, the trace showed a complete gap of nearly a minute. 

    Not sure if Garmin has got around to developing software that can average out the splits on the basis you can't be in two places at once. Sure it can grab a reading every few metres or so. It just has to cross check the same readings with ones every 100m, 500m and 1km as well. 

    Anyway, 17 miles. Less than 5 minutes extra for the grabbing of drinks - and needed.

    Weighed myself before and after the run, and the information gleaned showed that I sweated off a litre every six miles. 

    Good job I had it covered.

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭
    Quiet in here.
    Going to have to throw open a....usual poster amnesty :D 

    13 for me yesterday at threshold ;)
    Nah, 7.15 pace, which seems to be my summer weather normal run pace, which is fine.

    Turnout tonight, so will see how that goes.


    JB - if you're around, pop down


    Anyone else lurking, while there's a bit of a lull regulars wise, say hello!
  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭
    SG - I’m still lurking and reading with interest, but not much running going on here the past 2 months due to ongoing lower back issues which are hopefully on the mend now. 

    Hopefully the next time I delurk I can report something more positive!
  • Joe Blogs-BRJoe Blogs-BR ✭✭✭
    SG - provisionally planning to swing through on my way home tonight, as long as work doesn't get too busy. Will look out for you. Good luck chap. 
  • Joe Blogs-BRJoe Blogs-BR ✭✭✭
    edited July 29
    I won’t tell the story, but a quick snap from tonight 

  • alehousealehouse ✭✭✭
    That's not a proper cap, Joe...and the t-shirt is so last year. Sounds a fun evening and I look forward to the reports. Trust parking only takes one page. 
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • StevieWhStevieWh ✭✭✭
    edited July 30
    Great photo Joe! I've also seen the result but won't spoil it!

    SG - I think you nailed it on the head there, the way you describe the 'breathiness' on your runs does make me think you are running them too hard as well!

    5k Track Challenge went really well. Felt really good in the warm up so was full of confidence stood on the line. Gun goes off and I settle in towards the back of the pack, pacer seems to have gone off a bit keen as I was probably 12th-14th and came through 400m at 1.24 which was bang on pace. Kept moving my way through the field as the laps went by ensuring I was still in touch with the pacer, first two ks came up in roughly 3.30 and 7.00 so bang on pace. Got to 3k in 10.31 and still feeling good so started to come round the next group of people, this was the point where I missed the break from the front 3 (I think the pacer pushed on a bit for them). Pushed as hard as I could for the last 4 laps but couldn't close the gap. Big sprint finish for 17.23.76, 4th place and a 20s PB!

    Really happy with how I executed it and how comfortable I felt for most of the race. Will be more aggressive tactically next time so I'm closer to the front to go with the break. First time I've actually had a race on the track as the other two races ive basically been solo so really enjoyed that part of it. Can't wait to do another!
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭
    Yep - that's it SW. And that's why it took ages to mentally "feel right", long after all the tests had said I was alright. Also it's impossible to measure how it used to feel - nostaliga is by definition rose tinting the bad or hard moments, and easy to pretend it was always super easy!

    Superb pb. I've no idea what track versus road is worth for 5k, but that's a big chunk off your track one!
    Maybe having a crack at a track 3k and pushing for sub 10 might be a helpful step?

    I need to get a report up myself..but all in good time :)
  • PeteMPeteM ✭✭✭
    Brilliant result StevieWh and you should be delighted with that. Always great to hear about someone rapidly improving, enjoying their running and racing and getting impressive results. 

    I've been lying low for a while trying to get over a lower hamstring/back of knee issue but, given the photo above, better come clean now (and also try to pre-empt SG's epic report :) ). Been going to physio since injury flared at Dinton 5k about 3 weeks ago and didn't run for about 10 days. Then did a test parkrun in about 20 mins and a proper one at Woodley last week which was 18'45 and thought I was ok again. So onto Battersea last night for my only visit this year...

    Usual athletic looking field and chaotically fast start but settled in mid division ok and was quite happy up to 2k which was through in about 7'20 relatively relaxed. From there the injury issues just started getting worse again, not like last time, more gradually this time, but increasingly noticeable. One again could keep running at almost the same pace but just more painful as time went on and was grateful for the line coming in 18'31. Still sort of happy I went as that's a reasonable marker for 5k but obviously another injury setback now. 78th so only just over half way in the 189 runner field and only 7th v50 an indication of the standard there. Race was won by our local running celeb Rob Corney of Reading in 15'0x but again I guess he will be disappointed to just miss a sub 15 (though still unbelievably good by mere mortal standards).

    Good to see SG and his club colleagues and also to meet Joe and his partner Katie. 

    Not sure where to turn next. Guess an admonishment from Ric is coming (and probably merited this time) for "self-flagellation" as he (or someone else!) termed it. However I have done 2 parkruns, a session and numerous ordinary runs in the last 2 weeks without issues, so thought it worth the gamble to go to BP and at least managed to avoid a DNF. My 2 midweek series end on consecutive days next week and I was well placed to win v50 in both, but unlikely to run them now. May try to muddle through the 2nd one where I have a big lead anyway and its only 5k, but that depends on my physio working some magic in the next few days.    
          
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭
    You're a nobody on the thread until Ric has given you a right old serve  :D 

    Tidy return, and good to see you back on the thread. Always better when we have a raft of names sharing the chat, rather than one or two of us jibber jabbering.
    Be cautious, but don't write off the series wins, at least the 5k one.
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭
    edited July 30
    Battersea Park 5k for a second time this summer then, having been at the same venue for the terrific 3x1mile relay event, mustering a pb there.

    Whilst not matching last Thursday's insane temperature, the bbc weather still had Battersea as being 24 degrees at 7pm, and "feeling like 26".
    That's plenty hot. But like all races, you put in what you have on the day - control the controllables and all that.

    It was looking like a decent little trip ahead. Our best club guy Mr Samson was driving (sorry Aley - no parking shenanighans then!), and Satnam again involved.
    I was pleased to hear Pete was involved, and also Joe B would be supporting as well.


    This summer I "only" had the 17.23 from the first go at BP as my fastest, with 3 summer series jobs in the 17.42-49 mixer, the Sutton Park tough course 5k+ distance from the Vets relay, and a very sheepish 18.25 at Marlow's parkrun the other week.
    A strange summer where fast work started a bit later than usual, then had Endure in the middle to hijack.
    However, the mile showed my legs were back in the game, so I looked forward to trying to drill that 17.23 down nearer 17 - whatever the weather was doing.

    Finally lived up to my usual "thrifty" manner by entering beforehand, to save £1. but more importantly reduce time at the start area.

    As I hadn't driven, so didn't have free access to my stuff at any second, I just warmed up in the Vapors, a mile and a half or so wouldn't be too much of an issue. I'm finding the Garmin 235 is getting slower and slower to find the GPS these days, so again did this off an estimate.

    The start line seemed a little less packed than the last race result suggested. That was 50 sub 17. No doubt that was a cooler night though, but I managed to get about 2 rows back, and was surprised to see a couple of young kids in front.

    Right old crowd scene, and I'm slightly concerned at being boxed in, but it'll soon level out.
    OFF we go and I must suddenly be about 60 back which is a bit disconcerting. Classic 5k start, where it doesn't feel that fast at all, and it's all about that first split to see what's what.

    Turn past the Ice Cream van, through the bandstand, and first km is up, 3.18 job.
    Phew that'll do. Did 3.20 for my 17.23 in June, and remembered a 3.15 for 16.56 last summer. So chances are you'll always be a good chunk ahead of what you'll average, as it's so difficult to make it up later - hence generally not being overtaken my many people in the second half of the race.

    First km is alright, as long as you can steer that second in and around what you're hoping to average, so we'll soon see.

    Left hand turn at the end of the road is sharper than it needs to be, mostly due to there being a sign on there. Therefore, you tend to take it wider than you'd like.
    Round the bend, to the roundabout that the mile went up to and back, and past the carpark, and startline. I've taken a good 2km to catch some tiny kid who has gone out insanely fast.


    2nd km has come up at 3.26, which is ok, and then 3rd km 3.30. 
    We're slipping a bit, so we're not going to be "that" close to 17.00 but still plenty of opportunity to get right under 17.23.

    Onto the second lap, and the 4th km is always the hardest. It's here where you can really slip off the pace.
    3.35 up, that's another dip, but we all know the 5th km is a ramp up job.

    I've seen Joe magnificently pop up at least 3-4 places, and he's encouraging me to keep at it. Legend!

    On the run in now, and start thinking about 2 laps and a half left. Estimating how far it is to the carpark, the bend etc!

    Round the last bend, going harder than the last few km, I see the clock, it's turned 17, and I'm storming in.

    Make it over for 17.15, so that's an 8 sec best of the summer, which I'll take tonight.

    That was 38th out of 189. The standard is amazing in so small a field.

    Noticed I lost to a lady I beat by 1second at the mile last week, who did 17.05, but she's obviously no chimpola. 
    Apparently some nutter was doing some World record buggy push attempt too and got in mid 16s or something mad. Didn't even see him he was so far gone.

    The Samson put a 16.08 in, and Satnam a 19.07, so solid all round.

    Usual glorious post race magic - Joe and Katie had hung aboot, so a load of good chat, Pete involved too. Then a nice road trip back with the club pals. Have to do more of these - there simply is nothing like that satisfied drive back from a decent race.


    I'd like to have another crack at say 18-20 degrees rather than 24-26, but you make do with how it comes out.
    There is one last opportunity next week, but let's see how Friday's mile/Sat parkrun combo goes first.

    As a very rare combo I'm also turning out at the club's session tonight as a young pal has his bday drinks straight after - lot of time to fill otherwise hanging about at work!!

    16 turnouts for 2019 so far. Did 32 last year.
    3 definites on the agenda within 10 days, maybe another BP, and then we'll settle, and work out what the plan is - and the distance increasing back up.
  • alehousealehouse ✭✭✭
    Heading in the right direction, SG! Still think that your splits need to be more even, or you need to be more used to running faster than the 3:18 in training. I liked the 3 x 1k/3 x 400/3 x 200 session from about three weeks ago, and also the 4 x 4 mins hilly loop session. A consistent diet alternating these or similar may work wonders!

    In other news I had been progressing quite well and got my age grading up to just under 77...and then the other day was knocked over in the supermarket and landed badly on my back. Scan yesterday showed fracture in the sacrum part of the spine, just above the coccyx. Literally a pain! Saw GB team doctor (and spoke with another one!) and am allowed to run, but it has to be gentle and flat. 8 to 12 weeks to heal, so am still aiming for LFoM in October. 

    Well done Pete (hope your own injury gets sorted) and SteveWH also.
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭
    So much stuff to do, too little time is the only issue Aley. I did intend on storming a couple or 3 very fast km off colossal recovery but never got round to it.

    Those splits were certainly a bit wild for sure. I wonder if I could ever average 3.18 or quicker though! Probs not in fairness. Best I managed was averaging 3.20 or so for which is still 1640 pace.

    Looked at next Monday's weather and still about 23-25 so not much better!


    Doh to the second paragraph! Such a promising first line, and what a horrible thing to happen! Who the heck knocked you over? And how?! Is that any recurrence of what that masseur managed to do that time?
  • Reg WandReg Wand ✭✭✭
    Seeing the thread meet up at Battersea reminds me I was supposed to be there having a tilt at a 5k PB. Well done to those posting decent 5k times.

    Took the decision to stop even occasional runs so not run for about 10 days now. Possibly some improvement but this is a slow mend, god knows what I did. It's reassuring to know the elbow is still sore and I know I didn't break anything there so it's reasonable to assume the hip is just equally and deeply bruised. 

    Just a bit of cycling to work to report then.
  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭
    PeteM said:
    Brilliant result StevieWh and you should be delighted with that. Always great to hear about someone rapidly improving, enjoying their running and racing and getting impressive results. 

    I've been lying low for a while trying to get over a lower hamstring/back of knee issue but, given the photo above, better come clean now (and also try to pre-empt SG's epic report :) ). Been going to physio since injury flared at Dinton 5k about 3 weeks ago and didn't run for about 10 days. Then did a test parkrun in about 20 mins and a proper one at Woodley last week which was 18'45 and thought I was ok again. So onto Battersea last night for my only visit this year...

    Usual athletic looking field and chaotically fast start but settled in mid division ok and was quite happy up to 2k which was through in about 7'20 relatively relaxed. From there the injury issues just started getting worse again, not like last time, more gradually this time, but increasingly noticeable. One again could keep running at almost the same pace but just more painful as time went on and was grateful for the line coming in 18'31. Still sort of happy I went as that's a reasonable marker for 5k but obviously another injury setback now. 78th so only just over half way in the 189 runner field and only 7th v50 an indication of the standard there. Race was won by our local running celeb Rob Corney of Reading in 15'0x but again I guess he will be disappointed to just miss a sub 15 (though still unbelievably good by mere mortal standards).

    Good to see SG and his club colleagues and also to meet Joe and his partner Katie. 

    Not sure where to turn next. Guess an admonishment from Ric is coming (and probably merited this time) for "self-flagellation" as he (or someone else!) termed it. However I have done 2 parkruns, a session and numerous ordinary runs in the last 2 weeks without issues, so thought it worth the gamble to go to BP and at least managed to avoid a DNF. My 2 midweek series end on consecutive days next week and I was well placed to win v50 in both, but unlikely to run them now. May try to muddle through the 2nd one where I have a big lead anyway and its only 5k, but that depends on my physio working some magic in the next few days.    
          
    'Self-flagellation'! It wasn't you Pete. Just a play on the training principle of load and recovery, where training for some is only load. Happens to all ambitious runners, including this one at some points.

    No admonishment. You felt you had recovered. All the signs indicated that you had.

    I think what you felt this time was the repair mechanism of your injury being taken to it's current limit. It's the same as if you had gone for a run beyond your usual endurance limits.

    It's that you have a mixture of new muscle fibres and scar tissue (a bit) all mixed up. The new fibres were getting trained up (and fast -good!) and maybe have got to the stage where the old scar tissue was being pushed aside. Your physio will sort things. I doubt if it's a complete repeat of the original issue.

    Btw, congrats on the results. 

    I'll now get around to reading the rest of the posts - I may be some time.
  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭
    Great run there SG. Cooler conditions and a sub 17 could be in the bag. 

    Quite a knockdown for a supermarket Aley. Were people in a hurry? Get well soon. 

    13 miles today with Andrea. The distance work has paid off. I was able to run and (potentially) speak the whole time. 

  • PhilipMJonesPhilipMJones ✭✭✭
    Saw this on facebook, any meaning to it?


  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭
    edited July 31
    I think that's Simon's marathon pb ;)
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭
    Went and did a Dashers session then. Very rare to race a Monday and do a session Tuesday. It's all very "Dom" and not the wisest generally. At least last week it was "Only" a mile, and then hills :)

    But rather than hang about for hours for matey's bday drinks, I thought i'd do the sesh, with thoughts of "Non full beans" etc.

    6x4mins, off 90secs, with a 4min gap after 3 reps.
    Round a grass track, that "might" be 400m but noone is really sure, as it doubles as some sort of cricket pitch boundary!

    Eased in at the back, but the front guys weren't exactly gunning it, so went to the front and went from there really.

    Fairly windy down one side.
    But average paces of 

    5.44-5.47-5.34
    5.30-5.26-5.28

    So maybe windier one way round (which is odd on a circle!), mixed with naturally ramping it up as we went.

    Quite fun gunning past peeps, and keeps in with the club which I need to do more of, especially most likely with taking a role on the board next year.
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭
    edited July 31
    ps has anyone seen the Barkley marathons doc on netflix?

    A truly incredible race that I can only try and cover with this summary bullet points (though checking there doesn't seem to be the facility to use them - am sure there used to be?)

    Anyway.....

    40 runner limit - criteria of selection unknown, and details minimal online
    60 hour race
    Lap is given as "20 miles", yet that seems to be the as crow flies version - and could be up to marathon length (!)
    All offroad, with huge elevation swings
    Self navigational!!
    Obvs through the night for parts of it
    Direction switches after 2 laps - and any runners who make it past lap 4 go in rotation in different directions - so any "race" on leg 5 is a totally unknown one
    You have to find between 8-14 books on route, and rip out the page corresponding to your race number (different number per leg) to prove you've covered it

    Just truly insane. It makes Endure 24 look like walking a parkrun in comparison!

    Without spoilering the film, which covered the 2012 version - they picked an exceptional year to cover.

    But the state of these people after. Legs ripped to shreds, blistered, pure exhaustion, amazing.

    Most consider it a heck of an achievement to cover the "fun run", which is 3 laps, a "mere" 60miles (or more likely 72!)
  • Matthew HeadMatthew Head ✭✭✭
    Good to read things ticking over well on here.

    Congrats SW on the track PB, it must be a massive confidence boost to be pushing PBs early in the marathon campaign!
    Good running at the 5km SG and Pete - I hope that the hamstring heals quickly, and that it's a case of what Ric mentioned.
    More long runs, Ric! You'll go well at the relay.
    Reg, glad to hear you're still able to get the cycling in. Hopefully you'll return to running quickly!


    Not a lot to report here - one session last week, prescribed 5 x 2mins hills at 5km effort (WHAT). Turns out the idea is a shallow hill for a bit of resistance, not some monster. Managed to turn them all out at sub-6 pace, averaging 5:55/mi or so. 
    Then super busy at the end of the week, and now feeling a little run down with a bit of a summer cold. Joys.
    Got the next Grand Prix fixture on Sunday - Indian Queens HM. The only opportunity for a flat, fast half in Cornwall. Alas, not prepped for a proper stab at it, so the coach has said to bank an easy-steady 8 miles and then pick it up in the last 5.

    SG, regarding Aley's comments about working at faster paces (e.g. 3:18/km), you cold do far worse than turning up to those club sessions once a week for a rampage. The group effect will definitely help you hit the paces you find tricky in solo sessions.
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭
    MH - I love the title the grand prix! Sounds big time.
    Apparently there's a guy connected with our club who ran some "GP" against elite kenyans in his day. He got massively schooled, but was still in the high 13:xxs!!!

    Just shows that even when you're currently one of the faster guys in your club there's always these mysterious older guys who once were absolute top quality!

    ps - in theory you're 100% right. But our lot seem to be in a bit of a lull with the Tue sessions in terms of the faster guys. 
    Our super vet was there, but he rinses himself so hard (27sec 200m reps!!) that he inevitably suffers long breakdowns every so often - and he was jogging last night. They also have a Monday track sesh which dilutes things. Monday is a dreadful day for track, as you've typically gone long Sunday - it's simply on availability of the facility rather than any logic.
  • PhilipMJonesPhilipMJones ✭✭✭
    Talking of GPs, I remember Silverstone 10k is September 4th and that is getting closer. Not sure if I will do it or not as the next 4 weeks are not ideal training weeks (holiday, work in the US, holiday, move kids to new flats).
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭
    Probs works just to get a 10k on the grid though?
    I haven't done one for over 2 years now!
  • YnnecYnnec ✭✭✭
    edited August 1
    Stevie G said:
    ps has anyone seen the Barkley marathons doc on netflix?
    I enjoyed it, SG. It's truly hard to get the noggin around such an undertaking; Nicky Spinks reckons it ranks up there with the Double Ramsay Round:

    https://www.redbull.com/gb-en/the-barkley-marathon-guide-nicky-spinks

    Icarus (doping in cycling documentary) is another gud'un on Netflix if you've not seen it:

    https://www.imdb.com/title/tt6333060/?ref_=nv_sr_1?ref_=nv_sr_1
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭
    I was going to watch that Icarus one - but spotted the Barkley one just before, and now that's my current obsession. Having found a youtube "where dreams go to die", with Gary Robbins, who is clearly an incredible ultra runner, and his struggles with it.

    Watching them finish a lap, and have to literally force food down, and get going again in 10mins is insanity.
    The organiser is a real fiend, mixing things up every year, including route, start time, total of books hidden on the course etc.
    He even bans media and people taking any photos/footage of the course. Although someone did a 2018 vid showing a tiny amount of it. I dare say you can't film a 12hour route very easily!
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭
    Well i for one am utterly knackered.

    Wycombe game now. Reports later!
  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭
    edited August 3
    Me too! Just back from a bit of an epic. 3 Munros and just shy of 5000ft of climbing squeezed into just under 10M.  A fantastic run out over Beinn Ghlass, Ben Lawers and An Stuc, then back over the first two. Great conditions, though if I'm picky, possibly too warm and humid for that amount of climbing!!!

    Looking forward to the report SG......


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