Moraghan Training - Stevie G

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  • Cheers folks, hopefully it's nothing. It wasn't connected with hard training, or dehydration. Runners haematuria was my thought the first time it happened as I'd just got back off an easy morning run. However there was no explanation the second time.

    Felt good to cruise round parkrun in 17.01 today at somewhere between 10k and threshold effort. Long run with some MP in it tomorrow.

    That's a tough session Matthew. I never do intervals with any precision or length. Quite like 8x90 seconds-ish fast embedded in an 8 mile easy run but usually lose count of how many and time.

    Good training run StevieWh on your own, I would hop into races to do those big runs. Big fan of half marathon at marathon effort as the big session in a marathon build up. 
  • StevieWhStevieWh ✭✭✭
    Muddy - i wish I could cruise round in 17.01!! Unfortunately I have a massive competitive streak so at the moment I can't imagine entering a race that I'm not going to give.my best effort.

    18m today on very tired legs. Ran 2.5m laps of the village so I could collect water every couple of laps. Happy with 7.50 average on very tired legs
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭
    edited August 18
    17.01 between 10k and threshold muddy?
    Is that you specifically aiming to keep effort sub optimal? Or is that you having a smash and checking hr later and judging it to be at that level?
    As if it's the former surely you'd want to get what must be a possible 35-40sec faster time and monumental pb? Surely a Flat out 5k crack wouldn't disrupt the latest marathon build much more than a bit held back version would?

    Sw - i sort of agree, but last two years ive done a few more things like the murder mile and endure 24 where you're not really flat out for different reasons.
    Also when doing lots of races back to back you can find there's a lot of b races - like i remember Phil doing years back.
    Need to get back to more A races!
  • Yeah just looking at HR Stevie. 162 av. hr versus 168 av. hr for my 10k pb. I   was definitely not doing a flat out crack as I was breaking in trainers and I had a hard week in running/training and a very boozy night Thurs. I wanted to put out around hm effort but ran a fast first mile. There’s a 5k nearby on Weds. night that I’ll see if I can get into.
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭
    You owe it to yourself to put a fast 5k in as with very few exceptions form comes and goes. Grab it while it's there!

    I wouldn't want to see my hr. I dare say itd tell me im working like a dog on supposed easy runs. Or cruising on races😄  

     14m today. Longest run for 15 weeks!

    7.10 job is a nice result on an out and back version of a long loop i can do.
    Last mile was 7.16 but one of those awkward ones where you have 0.2m to round it up so end up doing silly slow loops.
  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭
    Nice LSR SG - bit wet?
    SW - 1.5M loops for 18M - sounds, er, fun?! Still, serves a purpose!
    Similarly - nice "cruise" round parkrun MF :smile:

    Thanks for the tips re tempos chaps. I think the key at the moment is actually to get the motivation to do either if I'm honest :blush:

    Hamstrings feeling very tight this morning after driving to Cardiff and back yesterday for a rather dull game of rugby. Canned the second run on Friday too. Might do an LSR later, but will see. Might be better to just write this week off and start again next week!
  • muddyfunstermuddyfunster ✭✭✭
    edited August 18
    StevieG - Much like race day magic, you'll be unsurprised to hear I don't believe much in 'form'. Training is a proper balancing act; one can get it wrong and go too hard and it becomes mystifying why you can't see the effects in racing. 

     In terms of where I am.at 5k, when I ran the Speedway 10k back in June I was called out at 16.55 for 5k (confirmed by watch later). Since then the big workouts I've done have been 2x10k threshold, 13 marathon effort and a couple of 10k progressions all in heat. I would expect,  even with the last three weeks being rubbish, to still be sub 17 for a 5k committing to it on fresher legs.

    13 for me this morning, no idea of pace overall as it hasn't uploaded yet but with 5k of marathon effort timed at around 19.30 - covering two muddy laps of my favourite reservoir.

    Good luck with the LSR later Bus :)
  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭
    Severe case of CBA today so didn't bother....feeling fat, lazy, old, slow and stiff-legged and in need of a target to work for...

    What's this about not believing in RDM then MF? Definitely exists!!! How else do you explain regular (for me anyway) outcomes like 13.1M at a pace faster than you can hold a 5M tempo at, or 10M faster than 1k reps etc etc???

    Not saying it is anything other than a combination of proper training, tapering and a healthy dose of adrenalin and focussed effort, but the result is still magic :smiley:
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭

    Need a big goal Bus - how about we reprise one of the best ever thread experiences - get in for GSR again?
  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭
    It'd be a good day out, that's for sure, but 10M is one of those that I'd find it difficult to do if there was no chance of getting a sub 60 - which there absolutely isn't! Illogical I know, but there we go.....

    I'm thinking of the South Bucks 10k and Langdale Horseshoe in October as possible things to aim at
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭
    Can't worry about past times or wed never get out and race again.

    Not sure if that south bucks race even exists anymore? But maybe they only get details up late knockings.
  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭
    Yep - 10th anniversary race is on 6th October this year.

    https://southbucks10k.co.uk/

  • Magic is unexplainable Bus ! I think one of your factors, adrenaline, can count against you in terms of race day performance. I’m thinking of all these mad heads that charge off and wind up scraping themselves off the floor in the last third of the race.

    Your 5m tempo is tugging along 3 weeks of hard training (assuming you do ‘down’ weeks) of course. And isn’t that the point of training - to give you hitherto unknown capacity ? I think the race day effect is especially exacerbated if you train to paces and don’t adjust them very often: that 5m tempo at the start of a training block is a very different proposition to one at the end of a training block.

     It’s an elaborate con trick instigated by coaches to make you think they’ve delivered a miracle ;)
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭
    edited August 18


    Maybe you don't see the magic Muddy as you're constantly doing all this race at a zone or 2 down business? :)

    The word "magic" of course is a fun thing runners say, they're not obviously meaning literal magic - I think you read a bit too much literally sometimes.

    Literal magic would be producing something there was no sign of - and no one really ever does that.

    The "magic" is part of a number of factors that means, for example, if I take SW's numbers the other day - I could comfortably do a 6.10 paced 10miler in a race, in a few days, but I certainly would find it a monumental world of pain to do that as a solo run in a few days.

    Even though I'm the guy of the same fitness in both examples, running.

    THAT is what people mean by the magic. That you can produce more, easier than in a solo training run. You can surely see that, bearing in mind you often do your training runs in races for that exact reason.


    What you are spot on about, is if using training zone paces, to get those right.

    As I only produced a 17.15 5k this summer, I'll run that through the calcs to work out a sensible pace for the MP/Threshold continuous runs, rather than automatically work off last year's ones! Naturally if I end up doing it on the track I'll expect to come out slightly quicker.


  • I know it’s fun. Hence my winking.

    Solo training is harder than racing, I agree completely. That’s why I hop in a cheap local race. Helps the local scene and gives me company and a good course so I can concentrate on the run.

    I make no apologies for not going all out in every race entered: it’s my training, and my legs that feel knackered if I overdo it. I race when I feel fresh and prepared and there's a whole raft of work/life stuff goes into that happening these days ! I have no ego to prop up and I'm very happy to live to fight another day rather than spend several days aching and not enjoying running.
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭
    edited August 18
    There's no rules and it's all about the bigger picture, especially i can imagine with a monster like the marathon.

    It's a bit of a fine line between racing too much and too little, as it is with tapering. I was spoilt with the moz training as i had to do was read a schedule and pace needed! Job done.

    These days it's harder to work out what's the aim, how to get a good result and what actually counts as a good result. Like you there's always a bit of just being glad to turn out still!

    My last two ten mile races are a great example..almost identical results yet one felt underpar and one felt spot on. Different situational though.
  • Yeah one of those was hot wasn't it ? And the other in the Vaporfly ...

    I was just reminded that at the parkrun on Saturday a lad broke the course record. He was wearing t-shirt and tracksuit bottoms and ran 14.12 ! His cooldown was faster than my run.
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭
    edited August 18
    One was humid and warm for october but after what felt like a really strong set of training, clinging on at the end.

    The other was in the vapors but so hot i just made sure to take it sensible.
    Same result to within 3secs.


    Now...to put a good block in, get cool weather and see the benefit from these shoes supposed magic! Too much to hope for? 😄😜
    I guess it's realistic to still have a 58xx in me...

    14.12? What course is this? Faster than dachz infamously fast reading based one?
  • PeteMPeteM ✭✭✭
    edited August 18
    You mean this one SG? 

    https://www.parkrun.org.uk/woodley/results/agegradedleague/

    Where I appear (only on old codgers' friend WAVA of course) ahead of untold numbers of running luminaries like Rob Corney, Mark Symes, Ben Paviour our very own Dachs etc. and only a smidgen behindJonny Davies. Those were the days! Always have loved that course though and nowhere near as effective at most others (less said about my last pr 'effort' of 20'42 the better🙄).

  • This was Walsall Arboretum Stevie ... My first go there. I reckon it to be short, but there are ovals in it that could fool GPS, as well as the tree coverage. It’s a three lapper so you’re running into traffic 2nd and 3rd laps too. It is fast being quite flat, sheltered and net downhill.


  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭
    edited August 19
    Possibly short? Always a bit of a risk with parkruns, especially as some of them change routes, but could well be something fooling GPS.

    What sort of reading did it give? Close? Like 3.08/9? Or 3.05/less?
    Did the 14.12 guy show similar form elsewhere?

    I've seen some report less than 3 for parkruns, but then I've seen Burnham Beeches half come out at about 12.8 on some people's watches, but that's got a heavy woody coating.


    Did a quick mapmyrun on the road outside work, and little loop. I'd estimated 0.75m, but it seems to be a 1.03m job. 
    Hmm, could I do 6 laps of that at a decent lick?

    Dorney is a decent option too, 3mile loop, so "Only" 2 laps. Could be windy etc - will have a look at the weather (obvs getting old now i do things like this!) and make a judgement later!
  • I can see readings between 3.01 and 3.05 amongst those near me during the run. It measures similar to my normal tree lined parkrun which I know was done with a measuring wheel. Looking at my trace it's way off the paths I ran on. It has me taking a shortcut through the lake on each lap and cutting corners on a tight turn. Chap I'm normally in touch with over 10km ran under 16.45.

    14.12 guy has a sub 30 10000m time & ran 14.24 Mid Cheshire 5k back in the spring. Couple of 14.30s on hillier courses round West Mids this month.
  • StevieWhStevieWh ✭✭✭
    Muddy - He seems to be on a mission to take all the course records across the Midlands! A lot of my clubmates were at Brueton when he ran 14.26. Said he just took off from the start and was never seen again!
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭
    edited August 19
    Sounds promising the first bits Muddy. But I guess that fast guy muddies ( :) ) the waters a little bit by outperforming his already super fast Mid Cheshire race as a solo time trial.
    Maybe he's on a heck of a performance uplift though.

    There's only a couple of sub 14 guys in the country at parkrun aren't there? Both international types? Does this guy have the potential to get there do you chaps reckon?

    Ben Livesey our way put in some low 15s, and he's represented GB at some half marathons, and was a top 15 (i think?) or so at the London Marathon type geezer.

  • Oh I know from effort I was slacking off in the 2nd and 3rd miles. Definitely put out less than 10k effort on those. I was expecting to see around 17.30 for around half marathon/threshold level effort, allowing for the fast first mile.
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭
    Whoops, I'd edited to a more concise version in between, but same sentimonies :)

    Hope you feel fresh for a decent 5k crack wednesday was it? Must be running out of non parkrun opportunities for one as we move towards the end of summer?

    What sort of effort do you think you can produce for Maidenhead? Still a 1hr 17 sort of mix, allowing for less than ideal build up?
  • StevieWhStevieWh ✭✭✭
    As he's an under 23 i'd definitely say hes got a chance of getting there! Having an impressive summer by the looks of it

    https://www.thepowerof10.info/athletes/profile.aspx?athleteid=896506
  • Wow - thread has gone mad again (wait until after I post this)..

    Nothing much to report - 10 x 400 over the road before football Saturday - then Sunday I ran from St Neots Junior parkrun to the Kimbolton half (about 8 miles), the missus was massaging there. Shame that I hit that area of torrential rain halfway there. Very nice finish area though, in the grounds of the home.

    Won in 69 something by Will Mackay of Beds & Co. Good 2nd from David Hudson in low 71 I think and my HHH team mate Nick in 3rd.

  • I'm in for Wednesday night's race but logistically tricky to bring fresh legs to it and jump start the marathon campaign at the same time. I can't rest today or tomorrow as have some weekend stuff going on which will mean resting Sat or Sun.

    Maidenhead no idea - endurance is pretty poor at the moment, not enough long runs, and even when mileage is up, it's due to 4+4 combos, so not really getting the time on feet during the week.  Suppose my 10k threshold efforts afford a clue and they are showing 5:52 min/mile and 5:54 min/mile averages (both hot humid days). I'd like to run around 1.17 but don't feel like I've done the training for it.

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭
    Monster it, and see how you go.

    Nice 4miles at lunch, felt a bit livelier legs wise than the morning, potentially because of a coffee taken onboard.

    And certainly because I blimming found a wallet a mile from the end, and suddenly realised now I'd picked it up, the only right thing to do was to seek the address out, and drive it back.

    20min round trip to a right dodgy place, without a front door or number, abandoning the car wrong side on a main road.

    Not totally sure the woman understand me barking the address and asking her if she knew "matey boy", but I took it that she did, so was out of there, wondering whether it had been worth the bother :D  
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