Howdy, Stranger!
Categories
Moraghan Training - Stevie G
The materials in this website are in no way intended to replace the professional medical care, advice, diagnosis or treatment of a doctor, qualified personal trainer, therapist, dietitian or nutritionist Runners's World, Part of the Hearst UK well-being network © Copyright 2017
Comments
Not sure I'm ever hitting 2.44-46
2.50 is a nice round number potential (not that i'll do one, let alone a few!)
It seems a bit loose on how much to do at 10-20%, but stresses that's optimum.
So it was just interesting to apply that to my long runs, as they've never felt too fast even top end, and based on the P&D scale, aren't outrageous. Perhaps bubbling sub 7 when in form and momentum took over is getting tasty, but 7.05-7.15 seems perfectly reasonable.
Maybe it wouldn't if trying 80mile weeks with a LT run, 15miler and 20 though
But generally i tend to ease in for a mile, then it just naturally finds a level depending on a whole host of elements.
One run flew by sub 7 every mile a few months back, but right now, somewhere in the 7.05-7.15 sort of mixer feels right.
Shorter runs tend to be slower as they usually lack both the momentum build, and the motivation - they can be more a "Get this out the way" job.
I quote: ‘the first few miles of your long runs can be done slowly but by 5 miles your pace should be no slower than 20% slower than MP. Gradually increase your pace until you are running approx 10% slower than MP during the last 5 miles’.
3rd edition chapter 8, pg 160-161. 2nd edition, chapter 7 pg 138 says the following about MLRs:
’the pace for these runs should be similar to the pace for long runs’. ‘Avoid the temptation to do your MLRs too hard in days when you feel fresh’.
So back in a group session for the first time in ages. Only three of us running so no issues there. Showery and windy and just a basic 600 square, 10 reps with 80 secs recovery. Started on 1.58, 670m on the Garmin so I cut a few corners and got it down to a near correct distance. Probably averaged 1.52’s after that, last one 1.49. Really hard that was!
I'd call runs which end with HMP fast, not just low 7s.
Will never forget a 14miler, 8miles easy to steady, 3m MP, 3m HMP
The science worked, as the 5.57 i managed for the last 3miles was to the second my average at the next HM
I just chucked in 1.18.30 for a current HM level, and it reckons Long runs should be in the 6.37 - 745 mix, and easy runs in the 6.31-7.29.
Those are some ludicrous top ends!
I will still do a few long runs as easy time on feet affairs, esp 23 or 24m. I tend to start off a bit slower than the 20% pace, and 10m at 10% was probably a bit sporty. There were a couple of dliwer miles in there due to the wind and hills, but i tried to keep the average in the right place.
SG - id put you sub 250 for sure, but it depends upon how your legs cope with the last few miles and any cramping, which is where the need to be strong not fast kicks in. There is nothing about running fast on marathon day, its an exercise in holding a steady pace as your legs shut down, and being bloody minded enough to keep going. Its great, youd love it.
But i don't think I've ever finished a 15 miler and thought, i fancied more there
The idea of a hot day and having to do a marathon must be the stuff of nightmare.
Unless you literally just cruise it around.
SG; as soon as racing resumes why not get that marathon monkey off your shoulder?
Just about every club plodder has done at least one marathon these days. Even I did 4 (albeit all substandard) before giving up on them (I would for sure be bottom of your thread marathon league table!). For someone as high quality as you, who is so immersed in the sport, not to have done at least one is a real anomaly.
Nice long'un as usual TR. Good and impressive to see you mixing some speedy sections in too.
The left always go too far, Bus. We are in strange times though. Football matches require a significant police presence and to get this the clubs actually fund the police 😂
Those include the mind set that a race is a race, and if you are a racer, then you race. Marathons are easily run, but difficult to race.
Another is some runners aversion to drinking. It's a real issue for many.
Well a marathon solves that one. If you don't drink, you don't finish. At least, not finish well.
As far as advice, suggestions or recommendations given on the thread is concerned. Don't waste your time. People post here for validation of their 'set ways'. Not for changing them.
🙂
SG, had to check Facebook then! Thought there were offending pictures:)
Good run TR- as far as paces go, I always thought long runs for marathon runners should be at a decent pace really, whereas track runners should cover a distance but not at a particular speed.
An uninspired route even by my standards. All manner of out and backs.
But another one thinking add another 9.2miles? And faster?
No thank you bob 😂.
Endure for 30miles as part of a great gang split over 6 legs over a day..one thing.
In a go..heck!.
I think the half marathon is a lot more reasonable a distance.
And im thinking of you lot as the race report would be madness
Tried a long(ish) one myself today and got myself hopelessly lost in the Camberley end of Lightwater Country Park (further on from where Bracknell TVXC gets to). The Garmin map of my route does look like a maze around there, with paths going off everywhere in seemingly random directions, so not being too hard on my navigational (lack of) skills! Overall was just over 16k at 4'53k av but that told only half the story; 1st 5k and last 5k about 4.30 av and middle 6 more like 5'30 with hills everywhere and no signage! Doubt I'll try that one again soon unless I walk the tricky bit first to suss the route better
Interesting Pete. How many miles do you think Light water covers? My perception of that park comes merely from the xc event. That we cover the full sort of extent so perhaps it has a 3mile length hence having to do two laps.
Presumably it goes on for quite a while at the top of that main climb, 5mins or so into the race? To the left rather than the right that the race follows?
Was thinking earlier it might be interesting jogging round one of these courses while i still at least 5 weeks off...
Light water and Tadley are hour drive jobs though.
I walked with my wife for a couple of hours today, and my legs were aching after ydays 20 so very nearly deferred my run for a few hours, but thats a dangerous game to play so i forced myself out for 6m and ended up doing 9m.
Survived my long run with the fast boys this morning. 16 all off-road on some shitty surfaces, faster last 30 mins when I lost the ability to chat but the elastic just stuck if it got a little stretched at times!
I’ve looked at that park a few times for a run Pete. Is it nice in there? I’ve never been there given I don’t run XC. I’ve thought about linking it up with a few miles in the southern end of The Lookout. Btw, that looks a pretty pacy run to me.
My longest for a while today too - 14M to make just shy of 46 for the week and 101M with the 55 bike added in. I managed to go over on both ankles i hidden holes. First the left one, then in less time than it took my brain to say "ah, this looks tricky with rabbit and mole holes hidden by the grass", the right! My ankles are pretty strong and can take going over on them most of the time, but the second one actually brought me up short, wincing in pain, and for a minute thought I might have to abandon. I couldn't try and jog it off as it was at the top of a steep downhill, so had to stop and just sort of waggle it about! It was OK for the rest of the run, though is a little sore now so will probably get some ice on it.
You'd still score on all bar the mad days where team vet all manage to scrape into decent form and health at the same time too.
Bus maybe some safe flat road for a while?😂
But promising on a return to full-length sort of fare
The move from a gang of 6 running together to a massive group is the key one. As that allows club only events to take place which is that welcome step below proper races.
But there looks to be another vast section of park/wood the other side of the motorway bridge that the course doesn't touch at all.
Presume that's the bit you mean? Any idea how much mileage that involves?
Throw in having an xc as a comeback race and it gets even more fun, like that post vertigo one I doddled out
I vividly remember finishing 2006 after my first year at Marlow vowing never do do one again. I just remember feeling utterly dreadful during, and they seemed the longest 5-6miles ever. Just relentless changes of footing, every step feeling like 10 steps on the road, time seemingly standing still. Probably can only remember one or two series where I felt pretty turbo charged.
I've always liked the extra time pre xc races than other ones in fairness.
Make it 9am, and a few of the venues being an hour away, makes it a bit of an early one in bleak midwinter.
Make it 10am and what odds is an hour I suppose.
Plus in winter, if you start much earlier than 11, the volunteers at the host club will be setting up in the dark!
I remember all this debate from previous club committees!
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1GX58NLEpULgMAe2Y4sSn-yWLRdpxa_Sc/view?fbclid=IwAR13BxYntND6M6wObKPZSfepOT9IQIhrGawfI3JOjFNkl6NXMkedSNIkbGs
Basically unless there's an improvement in loosening, it'd be time trial sort of basis over 3hours.
1400 in the field.
1400 over 180mins would mean just under 8 runners going off every minute
Will be interesting watching it progress.
I went back this afternoon by car and walked the part I was trying to run! It's ok if you just keep a straight line and think I could now do the route I was trying to do this morning. This was just to get to Curley Hill (high point of the XC) from the South West then down towards the leisure centre.
There is also a track all the way up alongside Red Road in the South of this map; this too is technically part of the Country Park and really good for hill training as it goes on for about 1.5 miles with a brief downhill respite in the middle. This was the way I came up in the early part of the run, before I got lost!
I'd probably be lost in there for weeks!!
Tactics? None. I just took off like it was a HM, and just settled into an effort that suited me. First ten miles 61 minutes, second ten miles 64 minutes. Hung on to the rest.
I view marathons not as something to fear, more as something I find unnecessary. The same feeling I had having fallen out of several aircraft with a parachute on. Neither scary or thrilling, but worse, having to pay to do it.
So I ran a few marathons (County Gold medal in one) just to confirm my suspicions. I miss them not.
However, non runners will never regard you as a runner unless you have done a marathon. The only running feat that covers that deficiency is having run in the Olympics.
They seem to always ask the same questions: Have you run a marathon? Have you run the London Marathon?
If the answers to those two are affirmative, there's the supplementary question, What's your fastest time?
Er, Two-Forty something...
And that is all it ever takes to convince them that 'You are a real runner'. Hell, they even tell their friends about you when their own mates start on about XY or Z having gone around in four of five hours.
My response on being informed of this sort of thing is to point out the reality that anything much over 3 hours is way way more difficult. It's beyond me. My slowest was 3:05 and was 15 minutes past my measure of common sense.
That formed the basis of my answer when asked if I felt tired towards the end of a marathon. Yes, I did feel tired, but I felt more like an idiot more.
🙂
Marlow, but not the Winter hill type route, this one was into the trails opposite the Henley Road, vaguely aiming to explore Marlow common etc, with license to have a bit of exploration.
Looking on the strava map it looks a right old mess, dipping in and out of Marlow common, changing direction randomly in the woods, before sinking to the bottom of the woods and following the nature reserve for a bit.
Had that sinking feeling of knowing i'd descended a lot and the payback was over about 200metres and 160 feet, utterly crawling up a sheer climb, 15min miling at one stage, barely moving off the spot. Didn't stop though
A few false exits, one at Danesfield school entrance - a weird place for a footpath to exit to!
One at a 60 limit road with no pavement or even trail either side, and a random jog through a field.
Before finding a totally odd entrance to a footpath, immediately ditching it for woods, and eventually led me back to near the original trail. (They tell me these footpaths all lead to each other
Emerged at Bovingdon Green, which is obvs near the start of the old Marlow half, a nice straight forward downhill, but found a nice 3/4mile footpath trail instead, which led me to the pub at Oxford (?) Road. I ran away looking back, and you just wouldn't think that was a path you could run up!
Then another random footpath, somehow led me half way up to Barnards Hill, ensuring another trudge to the top of that.
Then back to Henley road finding another never seen before pathway, back and a ferocious 8.20 pace average. Which I can only imagine was that fast due to the road and pathway bits in there!
These routes must mean next to jack all to more than about Bus, but erm...something a bit different innit.
Ankle is a tiny bit sore today, so will need to be careful I don't go over on it again next run, but otherwise OK. Bike tonight - it's going to feel chilly I think!