Moraghan Training - Stevie G

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  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭
    In view of the inclement conditions, today I took advantage of being wide awake at 5:30 am so hopped on the indoor bike to spin off or reduce in size a few more fat cells.

    With a few stop start interludes along the way, I finished at 10:00am in time to watch Lewis Hamilton give a master class in Turkey.

    Second session lined up for later. 

    🙂

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    Very quiet on here, no running in a whole weekend?

    Let's get some on the table.

    Horrible conditions in places today, 3miles in very heavy rain, a desperate scrabble up a slippy, muddy hill for a bit to 4miles, and then just bits and pieces off offroad stuff added in here and there.
    Slipping round a field and tiptoing down some steep woody bit felt slow late doors.

    But all in, and 13miles chalked up.


    Matey from the other day's segment came back at me and has taken it down to 4.18 pace now. The bit that makes me chuckle is totally not even mentioning it in his title.

    Bearing in mind he's clearly gone absolute full beans to produce that 4.18, and has a 3min running v stopped differential. So that's clearly been a key part of the run :)

    Can probably take that down again. At 0.17m it's just shy of 300m, and I have a 0.14m with a 16ft incline at 4.19 in my locker.
    It's whether it's worth doing any time soon. At some point you have to let an individual seg go. Like when a seg war buddy took a slight downhill biased 0.25miler down to 4.02 in the end! The effort to beat that would definitely outweigh the gain!
  • Keep on keeping on SG. Most off-road ceases to be fun at this time of year tbh. Sliding around & bog wading the whole time gets tedious & tiresome. Good fire trails & well maintained canal towpaths however are a delight. Fortunately I am able to access both relatively easily. 
    Thanks to Wool’s suggestion of insoles I’ve been able to get out for a short run each of the last 4 days. Although Thursday’s 4M along the canal left me on a 4-5/10 on the pain scale it came down fairly rapidly so I did another 4 Friday but rather than run back along the adverse cambered towpath I cut through some housing estates & joined the main road which made a massive difference as I finished on 3/10. Increased the distance yesterday to 6M including a hilly trail parkrun course in 22:50 which did no extra damage so I returned today but did 25M on the bike beforehand & kept the running easy. Pain = 2/10 😃
  • That's progress Jools...

    It makes me laugh when I see Strava accounts of people saying how much they love mud!  I've had enough of the stuff already and its only November!   Most of the time I'm really grateful I can run off-road from my back gate, but the problem is it is arable farmland on clay for the first mile and a half in any direction and at times like this it is just ridiculously hard work! 

    Anyway, 14.5 M of sludge shuffling done today and managed to do most of it in sunshine! 

    In other news, I bought a cheap and cheerful turbo trainer this week, just to try and get some additional calorie burning done when its raining! The problem with this working at home malarkey is that, although I'm getting the running miles in, the general calorie burn of cycling to work, walking round town at lunch etc just isn't there, and combined with a significant increase in alcohol intake (later nights, later wake time!) I'm getting some (perhaps!) overdue middle age spread!!!

    Watching a youtube vid on the TT and picked up that Kilian Jornet has a VO2 max of 92!!!! 
  • Reg WandReg Wand ✭✭✭
    edited November 2020
    I love running in mud but I don't love cleaning up afterwards. I did my longest and muddiest run of the year on Saturday. Plan was to just run up and down every climb in the Wargrave area, I completely forgot about my watch and how far I'd gone when I realised I was quite a way from the car and already on 12 miles. Finished up with just under 16 miles I think, not sure as I have it in KMs at the moment, because I don't have much experience in relating distance in KMs to previous running, I find it easier to just run and not really worry about distance. What also helps is that I am only really concerned with elevation. To that end, this run was about 675 metres upwards.

    After a family walk in the Hambledon valley, I dropped the wife and children home and squeezed in a few hill reps before dark to get the daily quota in. On one rep I passed an old couple walking up the hill as I descended, they removed themselves from the path completely, possibly suffering with Covid fear. As I approached them from behind on the following rep they were blocking the entire path despite observing both myself and another chap doing hill reps past them several times. For once I didn't bother announcing my impending arrival but instead chose to slip past on the bank, to be honest at their age and with big wooly hats over their ears I think it was going to take a scary shout to make myself heard. The lady half noticed as I passed and called to her husband who then proceeded to side-step actually into the path I was taking, I stopped but was right next to him so gave him a bit of a fright. I checked he was ok before carrying on up the hill checking back only to receive a death stare. On the way back down I apologised for giving him a fright but he couldn't help himself but start moaning about me calling out as a warning next time. I don't know about everyone else but after two apologies and checking he was OK already, I think he was pushing his luck at this point! I left him with some gentle advice to accept an apology with a bit more grace!

    Anyway if you're sharing a path how about walking closer together so there's plenty of room for the inevitable passers-by. Managed to squeeze in the daily elevation. Actually earlier in the week I almost got taken out by some workman digging a trench at the bottom of the hill with a mini digger. He actually swung the mechanical digging shovel bit into my path as I ran past and I had to sidestep it to avoid my thighs getting smashed to pieces. On the way back up I was the one getting the apology this time and the next day they were working behind health and safety fences!

    Anyway most the pain indured has been as a result of the actual running up and down hills but with lots of foam rolling and stretching I am managing to keep it going just about. I missed four days though so I am over 1000 metres behind schedule at the moment. 
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    All any of us ask is that there's a little give and take.
    You see someone coming, you give them room, and hope they give you room. Reasonable both sides.

    Day off work today. Not for any specific reason. Just a second day off since returning from furlough at the start of Sep.

    Single 10, resisting the temptation to go and drill that local seg. But wisely thought the day after a long run, on a non fast run day was not clever.

    Therefore, a 10miler, low 7s fare. One steep hill that has the height of Wash Hill, that Bus, Phil and maybe some vaguely locals will know, but reaches close to the peak elevation over a mere 0.3miles, so it's up, slog, and fairly quickly done.

  • Cheers muddy. Good to hear from you too - it’s been a long time. Some impressive efforts from you there. 

    As I have to teach imperial vs metric to 11 year olds, I am definitely in favour of us going for km. Don’t suppose the likelihood of that has increased in recent years... Anyway, like the sound of that unintended 16M, Reg. Out of interest, how do people verify power in a Zwift race - is the weight (and there power-to-weight ratio) self reported? I heard one harsh but funny story of someone having some garmin smart scales. After a post marathon blow out and putting on a few pounds he went back on Zwift for the first time in a good while. Apparently his avatar was noticeably more rotund. Can’t hide anything in the Smart age 😂

    Very tidy progression, SG.

    Wool, I’d agree that responses to training are very individual - and indeed vary for that individual over the years as well.


    Have now done three lots of two days on, one day off running. Still capping things at 30 minutes, and have been varying the intensity depending on how fatigued I am from WattBike action. Slow paces have been about 9:20 and a hard effort in Sunday’s wind was a pleasing 7:25 pace, albeit for (back in the day) marathon pace HR. 

    Did wonder if I had some soreness where the stressy was on Thursday last week, but I think it was just fatigue. Completely unnoticeable since. 

    Considering trying a few gentle strides, perhaps on an incline. I have already been doing a few relatively heavier weights again - all in an effort to increase bone density. I will try adding some plyometric box jump style things in a week or two. 

    Oh, and managed an 80% weekly mileage increase to top out at 18. Strangely, this actually feels like quite an impressive feat. 

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    Good to see the comeback is moving on a bit SQ.
    At least you're not missing a great deal! You'll hopefully be full capacity by the time it's all open again (hoping that is the very early spring of course, not that you'll have to wait a year or so!!)
  • Steady progress on the comeback trail SQ. Zwift weight and height is self reported, if you enter certain races they do police it and disqualify people where it's obviously false. They also mandate heart rate monitors in the league we're in. If someone goes from 70kg to 60 kg in a week then they are going to get pinged.

    In the pro races during lockdown 1 they were filming themselves getting on the scales!

    Rest yesterday, more down to being busy. 10km hill reps for lunch and 438 metres added to the total.
  • Good work SQ - a peculiarly good time to be injured and coming back though! 

    Reg, I've gone from thinking no chance to having every faith you'll do it now!!!

    Double day for me. Slow and sludgy off-road 7 ish and a bit quicker, but very undulating evening road run of 5.7 trying to do every hill near where I live!
  • Agreed Bus. Definitely helped with staying chilled during the injury and not many chances to get jealous of others’ racing. So, er, thanks pandemic?! Sounds a tough run, especially after the recent rain.

    Ah - makes sense, Reg. Impressive climbing within a 10k.

    4M recovery at lunchtime, 9 min/miling. Longest run yet. 
  • It's still very much a feasible goal then Reg. Look forward to the ongoing progress.
    Solid fare Bus. Nice variation in running surface.
    Rehab continues apace with 5M along the canal yesterday. Got out & back without any real pain even on the adverse camber so progress indeed.
    Pleased to report the foot felt solid enough for a double day for me too: 4.5M at lunch & 10K commute home which I risked extending to 8M including a fartlek session: 3x800m, 200m hill sprint, 3x500m. Foot was up to a 3/10 by the end but a few hours later no perceptible harm done so onwards & upwards  Yet to try running without the orthotic insoles though.
  • WoolWool ✭✭✭
    3/10 sounds good to me Jools, pleased that you're able to run with a little bit of tinkering, just watch out for any aches & pains creeping in elsewhere from use of the orthotic.

    SQ - good to see you doing to some running again and congrats on staying sane through the injury period. I have had a couple of people question my w/kg on Zwift but I really am only about 55kg so what am I supposed to do?!!

    Thanks for the thoughtful advice up above there TR. Made me think. Ran with the chest strap on last night for the 1st time in years. It resulted in the slowest run for eons. I believe my aerobic fitness has nose-dived on the back of reduced miles / long runs   :o

    Lost a bit of mojo the last couple of weeks. I think I'd got 'up' for that Hatfield 5 and basically now I appear to have slumped in to a few lie ins and extra biccies. No real harm. Races are 9-12 months away imho.
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    Full race choice maybe Wool, but we won't be too long off having some sort of choice again soon, albeit Runthrough, F3, Purple patch, profit boy types etc.

    I find ticking over as close to a normal routine is the best way forward.
    Having done a single 10 on my day off work Monday, I tweaked the week back a day, so today became a session.

    Had re-applied some threshold recently, 4x5mins, 4x1mile 2-3 weeks ago, with a step up to 4x1mile progressive last week.

    So today I weighed up 5x1mile threshold, but tweaked it late doors to 4x5laps.
    Vague aim of 1.28 lapping, but aiming to hit around 5.50 pace.

    50-50 between which is the better approach really - take the splits each lap and have to mess about with the maths later, or take the auto mile split off, and take just the 5 lap (2km) split, and not necessarily have the feedback of where you are throughout.

    I went the former, and after some anorak maths :) later they came out

    7.17  - average 1.27.4 lapping
    7.18   - 1.27.6
    7.17   - 1.27.4
    7.16  - 1.27.2

    Pretty much bang on between 5.48-5.50 sort of pace.
    On a track so nice and smooth, but I dare say we'd all pick a smooth road loop anyway if doing this, so not huge odds I don't think - just safer and no distractions.

    Felt quite nice, so will have to see how to develop this. Probably 3x10mins will show it's face at some time, perhaps building to 15-10-5, or even the animal 20-15-10-5.

    Let's hope the lockdown ends in 10 days or so first and we can at least boot a few turnouts of kind out.


  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    Wool - you've been at this for a few years so it'll soon comeback. Nothing fancy required, just a couple of double digits a week, decent length long run, back up week after week of it and you'll be good to build up furrher. Come to Dorney in April, I'll give you a tow.

    Im on day 13 of isolation, the covid bus arrived, think my wife caught it round the school where she works part time. It flattened her, she has been allowed out again for a week but hasnt been well enough. My 19yr old had minor symptoms too and also tested positive, do i got a test and had it too. Only very minor head cold symptoms for me though, i wouldnt know id had it, biggest problem has been having to stay in. Been on the turbo at a low HR in order to tick over but its derailed my running. Easy few weeks ahead to build back up.
  • WoolWool ✭✭✭
    SG - we did 4*8 mins at the club the other day. That seemed a long, long way. Perhaps because the pace was a bit ill-disciplined: all-in rather than LT / tempo / threshold.

    TR - best wishes to you and your family. Hope you all recover quickly and fully. As you pointed out to me, you'll be back up to speed quickly as long as you take the time to get this thing out of your system 1st, just got to minimize any chances of longer-term impacts.

    We have our son at home this week after one of his classmates tested positive. Seems like laddo's dad decided to go out on a bit of a bender with his mates round a few pubs on the last day before lockdown and has infected the whole family and shut down part of the school as a result. Thanks.

    I'm not sure about another marathon. It'd take a monumental effort for me to run a PB now and so I think I might need a different target to get me motivated. That might mean an age-related target at 50.
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    Wool - thanks. Yes, im going to have few light weeks........its rife near me at the mo, but due to the schools, hopefully all the households get over it before lockdown eases. There was a big spike in infections from last gasp socialising before lockdown, i wish measures wouls simply be put in place immediately. The same will happen at Christmas if they ease things.......depends what floats your boat, my aim it to simply rack up some more sub3s before i get too old. As you say i wont be running pbs now, ill be 54 in the Spring, so i need the motor cct and airfield races.
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2020
    TR - that last line is very relevant - no-one is getting any younger, so pouncing on any racing opportunities makes sense, otherwise you're in effect writing off 6months, 9 months or longer until everything is back. And if you know it's "written off" it'd take a monumental effort to bother to train full on each week. I always like to be at a place I can quickly pick it up to a race effort when there's the chance.

    Wool - Knowing our lot, I expect that 4x8mins session was relayed as a faster than 5k type session too when in reality, that'd only work for a 30-32min 5k runner!

    And in a group, the usual suspects would probably storm off and do the first rep at 5.30 pace and then be well over 6 for the fourth one. A reverse progressive!
  • Nice session SG.

    Wool - Mojo is not in easy supply at the moment! It'll come back...

    TR - best wishes to you and yours for a speedy and uncomplicated recovery. My wife has just started a new job as a teaching assistant and my son is at school, so just waiting for when I get the news! If I was told to self-self isolate and was asymptomatic, I'm not sure whether I'd do my usual evening runs or not. Now its dark, if I run in the evening I never see anyone on my off-road routes!  The rest of my life would be largely unaffected as I am now officially a hermit!
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    edited November 2020
    Bus - cheers. I can understand that, we couldnt even walk the dog. And whilst folks offer to leave shopping on the drive, no one will walk the dog in case they catch it off her !.......but once we had confirmed CV19 then the moral game kicks in. My wife was also too poorly for me to go out even if i wanted to. Luckily i had the nipper on guard when i was turboing when she was at her most poorly.
  • Sounds good progress, Jools. Makes sure that pain/10 doesn’t creep up.

    I reckon that aerobic fitness will come back relatively swiftly after years of good training, Wool.

    Nice session, SG. I think if you are on the track it makes sense to get the feedback every lap. There is no other time you can (attempt to) run with such pacing precision.

    Bus I would hope the school has some sensible measures in place. We have had very few cases I think as a result of taking such care. And I’d agree life changes, or rather doesn’t, for some people more than others. With schools and childminders open my Monday – Friday is the largely the same, and with playgrounds open the weekends are no different! It’s the drinking on my own on a Saturday evening that is probably the greatest signifier of lockdown.

    Yesterday afternoon I clocked my longest run yet – and with a bit of extremely light fartlek chucked in there. 5M at about 7:50 pace. Attempted some strides as part of the fartlek. My glutes certainly knew they hadn’t worked with that range of motion for a while. And the longer distance meant I got to see something different – a bit of the canal.


  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    TR - hope you and the family come through quickly and safely. Patient recovery seems wise.

    SQ - building blocks pal - sounds a decent dip back into things. And like you say to Wool I'm sure your magic will come back soon too.

    Single 9 today. Had done a 10 Monday, so 9 with plenty of woods and climbs was enough.

    There's a 1.5mie or so hill locally, that has loads of different footpaths and routes off it , so I took the opportunity to approach it from a footpath from the top. It leads to a massive field with left, right and straight on footpaths, so a couple more bits to have a dig around in future.

    I even resisted trying to have a go at a local seg that I've lost twice and taken back once over the last 2 weeks. Now it's 4.18 pace, attempting it at the end of a reasonably long hilly/woody slog wouldn't have been the wisest :)
  • PeteMPeteM ✭✭✭
    TR: I echo what others have said and wish you all a full and fast recovery. How bad has it been for you in terms of comparison to colds and flu? Sounds like it has been a lot worse for your wife and guess its just an example of even the same infection source being so different in impact person to person.

    Reg, you're going great guns with the Everest challenge. How are your calves and glutes liking it? Mine would be in pieces if I tried anything like that. Is it impacting your cycling at all; making it better as you get stronger or removing the time to do any?!

    Good to hear from SQ and Jools you are both a long way down the road back. You'll hopefully both be nicely recuperated in a few weeks to take on big volumes again (not that Jools ever really stopped doing so ;) )

    SG, if you could bottle and sell your running mojo it would be very lucrative! I don't know how you retain enthusiasm for 2 runs a day, multiple sessions a week and 50-60 mile weeks all year round, but am very impressed you can. Like Bus and Wool I have hit very much a CBA stage with running; no races, parkruns or anything like that on the horizon and running alone just getting a bit samey. I'm trying to go out once a week to new locations with one other guy which is quite nice, but probably down to about 2 other runs a week otherwise and each only steady pace for 10k or so. May try a (not) parkrun Saturday to get some speedwork in, as the only faster pace run I have done in recent times was actually quite satisfying (an 8k at about 4'10 pace, so not exactly rapid though). Other than that I'm finding both cycling and walking more enjoyable at the moment and may focus more on those going forward.
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    edited November 2020
    My wife started with man flu and a bad headache but she gets headaches/migraines. She went on to have fever, aches, cough, nausea, dizziness, taste issues......couldnt stand up without feeling dizzy andsick, passed out a couple of times in the bathroom, she now has the "at altitude" breathing when she does anything. She has been allowed back out for a week now, but hasnt felt well enough. She said she has never felt so ill.

    Initially i just thought she had a cold or flu so was doing turbo intervals myself, which i eased back to steady turbo when she tested positive. Once my lad tested positive, i had a test too. Ive had a bit of a stuffy head very minor cold, but lack of fresh air could be the cause of that. One evening i had an hour where i had a runny nose, tickly cough and got a bit warm. Ive just taken paracetamol on the odd occasion. Under normal circumstances id be doing everything id normally do. The isolation has been the issue for me.

    Allowed out today so just did 5m easy, biggest problem was all my usual niggles have seized, was a very uncomfortable 5m, but im on the path back.
  • PeteMPeteM ✭✭✭
    Sounds awful for your wife TR and must be very worrying and difficult for you both. Glad to hear you are progressing well and a 5 miler bagged is a good start back. 
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2020
    Sounds like she got all the symptoms AND some on top there TR!

    Very easy to take it all for granted, especially as runners.
    I suppose that's why I try and stay as keen all year round, a mix of knowing it can be taken away when you least expect, what it takes to keep the level up, mixed with a fear of it dropping too much!

    Thanks for the kind words there Pete by the way! Keeping the sessions and varying distances breaks it all up nicely, especially in these WFH and no social of any type situations and the sessions themselves, while not always easy to get out for, always leave you with a huge satisfaction afterwards. A notch down from races of course, but definitely worth it.

    Also, I suppose every thread needs a keeno to provide some general background noise, or the thread would quickly falter. You can see how many people we've seen drop off, or disappear for 6-9months for that. We've kept this thread going fairly relentlessly for over a decade now. Can't be many threads like that!



    Quick lurker shout out? Positive people only ;)
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    She isnt an unhealthy person either, i remember thinking that i must have breathed so much covid in that i could have a nasty bout brewing up myself. I can see how it can flatten the older or infirm.
  • Stevie G said:




    Quick lurker shout out? Positive people only ;)
    Seems unfair to restrict it to people with Covid?
  • Sorry to hear your wife has had it bad, TR.

    Pete, my calves are fine but I am having an issue with my right side glute. Don't think I will be able to run today. Otherwise the actual runs have been pretty easy to be honest, it's just little niggles that will mean I probably won't achieve it. So I will get to prove Bus's initial instincts correct! No general fatigue from it as I've taken the runs pretty easy.

    I've only done one ride a week and that's been a Zwift race which has been fine.
  • Hope that proves wrong Reg!  

    Hopefully she makes a quick and full recovery TR - sounds like she had it pretty rough! 

    And SQ, bloomin hope so! sounds like recovery is going OK too.

    I thought I was doing the right thing by squeezing in a run in daylight at lunchtime today, but managed to time it just right to hit heavy rain and a bitingly cold wind! On road as well to avoid the sludge and for some reason picked probably the worst run I can do from here scenic wise!!! Hey ho, got it done and I guess we nearly always feel better after in these circumstances :smile:
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