Moraghan Training - Stevie G

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  • Stevie G said:
    Are there 2 gates or just one? I saw a gate, and followed it once, and it seemed to take you to a bank with a view of Winchbottom to your left.

    Will have to try it again, but perhaps in reverse and it'll probably be easier.

    As once you're in those woods, even following the arrows doesn't seem to lead me to where I'd expect. It either takes you to a massive field, that eventually leads to the Crooked Billet, or takes you down to the Winchy route I'd avoided to start with.
    That is right, you follow the bank round to the right. My GPS track is slightly out of line with the satellite image so you do a few hundred metres along the top of a  grassy bank that slopes down to a track that comes up from Winchbottom. Once you are in the woods, the path slopes down gently to meet the track coming up and then you follow that track pretty much straight on. 
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    I had a look at your strava and it looks so easy on that map doesn't it.
    Easy to bungle in the flesh though.

    But whichever way you get into those woods it just looks a case of not going down that grassy bank, and keeping the faith it does lead to where you want it to.
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 4
    Felt quite mentally up for today's run, as I had a proper purpose to an easy run for once.

    First time ever I've gone up a hill near the park by me in all these years, 200+ feet with plenty of mud, 400metres in was a bit of an abrupt start, but quickly got me to the reverse of the route me and Phil have bored non locals with recently.

    Discovered that it's literally a straight field that takes me to a certain gate in the woods. That I hadn't for a second even tried just running, as my perception was that I needed to take a left when coming the other direction.

    Funny old game, but I suspected that doing it in reverse would take any doubt at all away!

    One good part of all the furlough and this current non racing period, is the discovery of every which way on routes.

    Irony today was that I thought I won't do the road way the whole way back as that might be 10miles, instead taking another steep hill up a bank into Flackwell.
    But it still ended up being 10 all in. First 10 in the week for ages, after weeks and weeks of 8-9s.

    7.40 ish, but when you put in two 9.20s up two 200+ feet climbs, and one one of the "cashback" downs, you barely benefit from as it's a mudfest, that's always going to drag it down. And it's all fine for such a run anyway of course.
  • Good running all, nice to see everyone knocking out the miles.

    SG - I'm on the committee for our club so completely feel your pain. Think you described meetings pretty accurately there..

    I've been injured for probably the first time ever (I'm a lucky boy). Last week I carded a complete zero on the running front for the first time since probably 2014. Had a pain in my glue that just won't go away and accepted the best thing was to probably not run.

    Thankfully, don't seem to feel it at all on the bike, so I've just cracked on with that. Back to it this week with three easy runs so far, including covering the local 'grid' which was actually harder than it seemed (all on strava). Apparently Bus used to live on one of the roads and he bought a dodgy bed from there or something like that...

    Utterly fed up with lockdown. Missing everything normal. We move in 13 days if things don't go tits up between now and then..
  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭
    Ah, nostalgia's not what it used to be Joe :smiley:

    Hope the injury heals up quick!

    SG - what are you like? :wink:
  • Reg WandReg Wand ✭✭✭
    Shame you've been injured Joe but I'd be lying if I said it didn't give me a sense of relief that you're human  :)

    First run of the week for me today, bit of a groin niggle Monday/Tuesday and busy Wednesday. Just over 11 at lunch, it was damp and not that pleasant but felt easy after a few days rest.
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 4
    Cycling seems to be doable with all running injuries!

    Do cycling injuries (presume there are some, not just saw ass and nads) react well to running!?

    Running tends to be more a sport where you get tightnesses and niggles then injuries as such, as opposed to contact sports where some goon can properly wipe you out.


  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    Spring race cancellations are starting in earnest then.
    Marlow 5 and Maidenhead 10 both gone.
  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭
    Difficult to say SG - my only cycling injuries have been a bit of a bad back (ok ish with running) and a shattered collarbone and punctured lung (not so readily convertible to running :smiley:).

    I guess the transferability comes from slightly different muscles being used by mostly its very low impact.

    3rd road run in a row tonight! Pretty dull stuff, and a random route, but focusing more on the pleasure of being able to run on something that isn't the consistency of blancmange!  Still trying to get some hills in though, but well under the 100ft per mile.


  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 4
    Yep, mud adds variety, and it's one thing if you have xc grip, but just slipping and sliding on some slog of a field is no fun. Had a couple of bits like that today, but not that long, so all fine.

    Gonna aim for the track for the first time in a few weeks.
    Just a 4x1mile progression or something feels right. Low key, but go through the gears a little, faster each mile, without any precise aims.
    Try and spin the total mileage out to 7.5-8 if possible maybe.
  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭
    Plenty of slipping and sliding in store - not going to get above freezing in these parts from Saturday night until Thursday! Possible snow too....
  • JooliganJooligan ✭✭✭
    Sorry to hear you’re (sort of) benched Joe. Hope the move goes smoothly.
    Another 3 days, 3 runs, 33 miles & 3,700 ft from me. Easy(ish) couple of days but both double digits & plenty of hills then a return to Monday’s tempo route. Kept it steady til the final 3 miles when I hit a seg hard: 1 mile & 250’ climb then a 90s jog before a 600 DH dash - just 1% decline so ideal. Even better for the 1st time in a week neither of the flooded sections on that latter seg were so bad I was forced to run through them - the worst bit had been 10 strides through ankle deep water.
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    First time at the track for 2 1/2 weeks then, eased back in with an old favourite, the 4x1mile progressive, off 90secs.

    6.05, 5.54,5.49,5.35 a decent work through the gears.

    Unlike when you do mile reps at 10k pace and have to get the pacing bang on, these give you a bit more license. Rep 2 started a bit too casually for lap 1, but got it back on track.
    Rep 4 was more your classic fast first lap and last lap, with 1.21x, and eased off in the middle.

    Accidentally added 10 or so secs recovery for lap 4 but probably not great odds.
  • Reg WandReg Wand ✭✭✭
    SG - I think cycling allows you to moderate your effort a lot more, when I can't run I can almost always go for a walk so it's that stress under load that makes running difficult to do with soft tissue injuries. Obviously cycling you don't have to absorb your body weight and you can control the force you exert much more easily. Most my running injuries are quite small posterior muscle tears on my left leg. They rarely stop me cycling but might mean taking it easy. 

    Nice work on the track. Bus road running reminds me yesterday I was getting to the point in winter where the novelty has worn off and I am pining for spring. March being next is always a good thing, first month where things get better.
  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭
    Hopefully Reg, hopefully....

    Jools - nice volumes there as usual!

    SG - quality reps those!

    Looks like another road run in the dark later today. Was hoping for lunchtime, but bloody work keeps getting in the way!!!

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    Makes sense Reg - and March is definitely the re-start of positivity. Warmer, lighter, and hopefully an end to lockdown, and then fairly quickly at least into the "race" offering we had last autumn.

    Those decent track sessions give you that satisfaction, and feeling of this effort is all worth it. Just need the reward of races back on top.

    Bus - you're too big a deal at work, that's your problem :)
  • SCoombes2SCoombes2 ✭✭✭

    SQ - Good to see your dad getting his jab, lots of dads got done last Saturday.

    Bit quiet here - did the 10k of 35 hard, 25 jog yesterday...timed it just as that band of heavy rain came over.

    Shoes are getting a bit annoying. The NB Prism are really wide in the toe box, and a week ago I got an annoying scab on the top of one of my toes.So having to wear the crap Hoka's with the sole that feels like a squash ball, nothing there...but I can run without mucking the toe up.

    Need to get new Adios. Money ok at the moment, so will probably shell out over £100 for some 4's than cheaper 5's. Just want to go with what I know tbh. SG - I know you like the 5's, but most reviews say they aren't as fast and snappy as the 4's.

    Three years since nearly meeting PMJ at Black Park parkrun. Saw the picture on facebook of him facing the wrong way on the start line ;)

  • SCoombes2 said:

    Three years since nearly meeting PMJ at Black Park parkrun. Saw the picture on facebook of him facing the wrong way on the start line ;)

    The same picture came up on fb for me today, pacing 21 minutes and running backwards with the "old but ahead of you" t-shirt on. 
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    SC - I'd get the 2s if I still could. But I suspect in reality, it doesn't really matter what you wear, you're either hot or you're not.

    Back to a might saturday filler run, just a 4. Woods even muddier than usual, so with a slightly different route, with a few more fiddlier ups, put in an even slower first mile than ever seen, 10.20 (!)
    Doesn't matter at the best of times though, and especially not after banking reps the day before.

    On 48 for the week, just a standard 13 will nicely see me over the 60.
    Will probably do a route that allows me to do the route I've been boring on about for weeks :)

    Until then, Villa game, Wycombe game, United game and a bit of netflix in between seems a nice easy day.
  • Stevie G said:

    Will probably do a route that allows me to do the route I've been boring on about for weeks :)


    Should get yourself down to Cookham where the Thames is flooded: your water activities are way more amusing than your path finding ones. 
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    I've seen some of the photos and I think I'd probably die.

    Which may entertain for a week, but then the thread would probably fade away, so we have to look at the big picture here.
  • SorequadsSorequads ✭✭✭
    Best of luck with the move, Joe. I empathise with how stressful that can be. Hope the glute is ok.

    11 is a solid first hit out of the week post niggle, Reg. You seem to manage keeping fit very well during niggles - the bike works well for you and you seem to love it. 

    Jealous of you chaps getting on a track. Very good progression, SG. You crack me up with noting an extra 10s recovery. 

    You’re smashing the segs in North Devon, Jools 👍. 

    SC - I haven’t really noticed a difference between Adios 4 and 5s. If 5s are significantly cheaper, that would do it for me. 


    As anticipated, a very light Wednesday and Thursday before giving a 5k a crack on Friday. This is a rustbuster hit out two weeks out from the goal race/TT. Really pleased to take 18:59 on a reliable GPS route (two and a bit 1.5M laps).  Wore some very old 4% with 300M on the clock. I’m hoping that in a fortnight if I dig out some 4% that only have last year’s Wokingham on them and head to a slightly faster course, I can put another dent in the comeback PB.

    Weather looked kinder today, so headed out for this week’s buggy long. Same route as last week: 13.3M at 7:33 pace. Really enjoyed it.

    As a Type 1 Diabetic, I listened with interest to this week’s interview on Marathon Talk - Scott Burrell. A little dry if I am honest, but can obviously relate. Interestingly, he said he was targeting the UK T1D marathon record of 2:45:09. Didn’t realise I was within five minutes. It’s got the fires burning again!

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 6
    Sorequads said:

    . Very good progression, SG. You crack me up with noting an extra 10s recovery. 



    As anticipated, a very light Wednesday and Thursday before giving a 5k a crack on Friday. This is a rustbuster hit out two weeks out from the goal race/TT. Really pleased to take 18:59 on a reliable GPS route (two and a bit 1.5M laps).  Wore some very old 4% with 300M on the clock. I’m hoping that in a fortnight if I dig out some 4% that only have last year’s Wokingham on them and head to a slightly faster course, I can put another dent in the comeback PB.


    As a Type 1 Diabetic, I listened with interest to this week’s interview on Marathon Talk - Scott Burrell. A little dry if I am honest, but can obviously relate. Interestingly, he said he was targeting the UK T1D marathon record of 2:45:09. Didn’t realise I was within five minutes. It’s got the fires burning again!

    Got to be fully transparent innit :)

    Sessions on the road you can set, but it's harder to auto set a session on the track, so always the slight risk of bungling the maths. Not as important as bungling laps/rep numbers, have hardly ever done that - a couple of months ago doing 4 laps instead of 5 laps on one of my reps, but no biggie.

    Years back I mis-read a Moz session - I can't remember details, but luckily I'd quoted it on here, and Moz mailed me saying, NO, that's the FULL session, that's not one rep :D:D

    Sounds like your comeback is going nicely.  How do you find being diabetic in general? I don't know too much about it in terms of running, is it a case of having to watch even stuff like white pasta? Do you carry any kit around for long distance races/runs? Or is it not quite that dramatic if you stick to your routine?

  • SorequadsSorequads ✭✭✭
    edited February 6
    I’m lucky to live now not 20, 50, 100 years ago. Whilst I’m not allowed access to the top technology like a Dexcom or an insulin pump, I have had a Freestyle Libre for a couple of years. Very cool technology: it is a little disc the size of a 50p coin that I insert into my tricep. It then reads my blood sugar level every five minutes and I scan it with my phone whenever I want in order to get a nice (or not) graph showing the blood glucose trend. 
    In terms of carrying supplies - I am literally never more than a few metres from a packet of dextrose tablets, just in case. I suppose the furthest I would ever get from them would be at a track session when I dump my kit somewhere but knowing I am just running circles. 
    I generally run before eating - which means I haven’t injected and have no insulin on board. So don’t need any gels etc before say an 18M run. Just trial and error over the years to work it out from there. 
    In terms of general eating, this will go against 90% of the wider forum. About five years ago when I started to eat low carb, it genuinely changed my life. Less carbs = less insulin. The ‘law of small numbers’ then means any mistake is a smaller mistake. So say I have 10g of carbs in a meal (through veg) rather than 80g. I take one unit of insulin rather than maybe 6. So if I have miss estimated the amount of carbs, or I don’t quite inject the right amount, any error is much smaller. This lowers the whole rollercoaster effect of highs and lows. So works well for me.
    Undoubtedly not optimal for racing shorter distances - but I’ve found that radically changing the diet just isn’t worth it for me. Long term health has to trump short term pace. 
    Crucially, running and staying relatively lean is a massive help in general control. 
  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭
    Blimey SQ - that's an admirable demonstration of managing an illness!

    Horrible run today (though as always, glad to get it done!).  The snow never materialised, and not cold enough to freeze the mud, but not sure the wind was aware of that!  So, constant mud, lots of hills and a biting head wind and could easily have given up and gone home at any point!  Took a bit of a tumble on a downhill late on as well (tripped over a route) and landed badly on my side, which has left me with painful ribs, but sure it nothing that a little time won't cure!

    The road running has taken its toll on the ascent this week, so totals are 45M and down to 4500ft of ascent.
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 7
    SQ - and we think we have it hard trying to eat and manage things :)

    Classic Bus - putting yourself through misery, then seemingly surprised it's miserable :D 
    Let's hope you've not monstered yourself too badly.

    Thought i'd entertain a proper circular route, up to Holtspur, offroad bit to the road behind Wooburn Park, then off to Little Marlow, armed with my knowledge of how to do the proper route through those woods and fields!

    Made one last error! Not realising that the road to my left wasn't actually the main bit of Winchy, but a supporting road. As that made me think the trail i was following downwards, was just taking me back to Winchy, not where I wanted to be.

    Cue going right, and ending where I'd ended a few weeks ago.
    Emerging at a different field and gate that caused a real bit of confusion 10-11miles in, pretty cold (was hinting at snowing when I left, and a rare 2 layer job - NOT feeling warm)

    Long story short, easily rectified, go straight on will be the mantra next time, garhhh.
    Trudging mud, bitter wind in my face on the bigger ups, and a very slow mile down some local woods, trudging, slipping and at one place hand on the floor having almost gone over.

    Splits say it all, one 830 early doors up a hill/offroad, and then from 9 miles to 13.5, all about 820 - 9!

    Still came out 7.55 all in, showing the difference between smooth roads and anything else!


    Jools - i did wonder, when I was continuously putting in those paces late doors and at one stage slipping and sliding trudging up a windy hilly field at about 10min miling, how on earth you average 8.30 per mile all year. Your average ascent per mile was 117 feet I think I worked it out as too.

    With the footing you run on, and ascent, even accounting for the sessions etc, you can't be running many miles easy at all!
  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭
    edited February 7
    I only just scraped under 10 min miling average for my run today SG! 140ft per mile of sludge!

    Tried to lie down this afternoon and it was very painful. It's very sharp pain when in certain positions and I had thought it might be muscle strain, but now I'm wondering if I've cracked rib - not that I can do much about it even if I have!
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    Yes those ribs are an anoying area. Have only ever slightly bruised one, when falling on a run once. I can't remember timescales or anything, but I remember it was yet another reason I had to miss a Marlow race!
  • SorequadsSorequads ✭✭✭
    Ouch, Bus. I’ve been shocked at how much a running fall can take it out of you. I always feel like it must be nothing compared to crashing on a bike, but it has surprisingly shaken me up in the past. Take it easy. 

    Good effort on the tough long run, SG. A bit of mud toughens you up. The eating is a pleasure really - four eggs for breakfast 🤤. 

    A bit out of routine with a long run yesterday. Felt a little tired but generally ok this morning. Plenty of time vs a work day, so trotted round 10.8M of buggy chill out time. 8:24 average for recovery HR and effort. Although long enough in the tooth to recognise they won’t actually have aided recovery. 

    56M for the week. 
  • JooliganJooligan ✭✭✭
    Cracking double SQ: sub 19 5K & a very solid buggy HM.
    Good character building runs today SG & Bus.
    Hope it’s not a cracked rib Bus though, from experience, even if it is you should still be able to get out for some steady running. Stick to firm surfaces though as even if you don’t go over again keeping your balance can wrench it which is doubly painful. It’ll be uncomfortable but bearable.
    SG. I mainly run on tarmac or solid trails. Sometimes I’ve had a few muddy miles in there too. I monitor HR & most of my running is in the low aerobic zone. 
    Last week I did 74.0 miles with 116’/mile @8:37
    This week has been tougher with some tempo & steady running + a few intervals. Scores on the doors: 77.4 miles, 109’/mile @7:53 & 90% tarmac.
    Yesterday was a steady 11.6M & today was a speedier 12.7M with a couple of seg efforts. 1st up was a 588ft climb over 1.6M after about 15 minutes. Unfortunately I’d forgotten the details so when I passed the trig point after 1.1M I eased off the gas so only bettered my previous time by 16s. There was a stiff headwind this time too vs a nice tail breeze on Tuesday. Next up was another 1.1M segment which undulates for 0.9M before dropping 80’ in the last 300m. I was over an hour in by this point & I’d been cruising along at a steady effort so not the best run-in however I gave it my best shot. No idea of target pace beforehand - turns out I was 2s too slow for the CR. I’ll be back 🤣
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