Moraghan Training - Stevie G

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  • SorequadsSorequads ✭✭✭
    Jooligan said:
    I’m sure running there & back isn’t recommended SQ. 😆 Good that your immunity will be at full strength in time for the resumption of racing.
    Much needed recovery run for me today after a big week of miles, climbs & efforts. Returned to the FoD family cycle trail which is 10.5M so I tried a short cut but only succeeded in knocking off 0.8M 🤣 At least it was only undulating & I ran to easy HR: 125-135
    I listened to one of the Radio 4 series on the vaccine a few weeks ago. The one by Tim Hartford (I think) who does More or Less: Behind the Stats (going full geek now). They interviewed a doctor who had research that easy exercise  on the day of the inoculation, and reducing mental stress, were shown to increase efficacy. That was my excuse, anyway 😆. 

    The family trail is a lovely route. Still a challenging run though! I seem to remember one direction gave you a shorter, steeper climb, then some nice flowing descents. Did you do it that way, or inflict the tougher way round?

    It is a very different feeling in race when not giving it full beans, SG. Have done it a few times when doing some kind of marathon pace work, or pacing a time for someone. And probably over 100 times at parkrun. Actually find it a really good way to enjoy a race. 
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 1
    Trying to think if I've ever done even close to that SQ.

    I think i've gone with as much effort as I had on the day into almost everything I've classed as a race, be it standard races, xc, parkruns, or relays. 

    Maybe about 3 I can think of weren't a great effort.... a parkrun in Wales the night after the Murder mile/getting lost in a park/late drive - even 6min miling felt hard work that day...

    Doing 2 parkruns one new year's day as part of a 16miler - the second one was muddy, I had 12-13miles in my legs, but it was still as much as I had to give.

    And a relay with Dashers, a fun standard one, where i was bumped down to the B team, was the last leg, and the winning teams were in before I'd even set off :D 
    Hot humid mid July at about 2pm, after almost busting my beans in the cud the year before, so I was happy to just tempo it out.
  • JooliganJooligan ✭✭✭
    Interesting about the vaccine. Landlady's BF had his Friday & was told not to drive & to take it easy the day after too.
    Wasn't all along the family trail but in that neck of the woods so long flowing descent to 4M then short, sharp climb for a mile before undulations which trend upwards & then a K descent to finish.
    I'm with you SG on the race effort though I did run Wrexham HM as a marathon pace training run the week after smashing my HM PB at Wokey in 2018. I've been known to go less than flat out on some parkruns too - like the day before a marathon or on the morning of a XC race :D 
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    edited March 1
    Ive done no end of untapered races during marathon and 1/2 IM build up inc 60m bike as hard as possible the day before a 1/2 mara. Dont think ive ever trained for and tapered for anything that was less than a 1/2 mara. But thats probably as much from not being worried about running to my potential at shorter distances, as ive never trained for them. Do a few miles before and after the race and best effort on the day in the race (inc 20m total at chichester 10k) during marathon build up you defo have the feeling that you're dieseling out the effort in the build up races.
  • SorequadsSorequads ✭✭✭
    Jooligan said:
    Interesting about the vaccine. Landlady's BF had his Friday & was told not to drive & to take it easy the day after too.
    Wasn't all along the family trail but in that neck of the woods so long flowing descent to 4M then short, sharp climb for a mile before undulations which trend upwards & then a K descent to finish.
    I'm with you SG on the race effort though I did run Wrexham HM as a marathon pace training run the week after smashing my HM PB at Wokey in 2018. I've been known to go less than flat out on some parkruns too - like the day before a marathon or on the morning of a XC race :D 
    Or even the same day as a marathon, Jools 😆 
  • SorequadsSorequads ✭✭✭
    I guess it’s a luxury of having many races on the calendar. Next race I will be smashing myself to smithereens!
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    Reminds me of a maniac from my old club who raced something like a 2.45 marathon one morning.
    Then was seen doing a 30min 5mile undulating race on the same evening!

    Then did a 5k race the next evening.

    Think he ended up getting utterly clattered, but not before turning up on tv in screenshot with Paula Radcliffe for ages in her last marathon.
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    9 this morning.
    Steady/progression job, so not "that" hard, but not a doss.

    Couple of miles slightly up to Wycombe's ground, then back from there on the slight down, before a very slightly up last mile at 6.08.
    6.45 average

    Very much a base type session. Plenty of time to ramp it up as the weeks and months go on.
  • Reg WandReg Wand ✭✭✭
    Stevie G said:
    Reminds me of a maniac from my old club who raced something like a 2.45 marathon one morning.
    Then was seen doing a 30min 5mile undulating race on the same evening!

    Then did a 5k race the next evening.

    Think he ended up getting utterly clattered, but not before turning up on tv in screenshot with Paula Radcliffe for ages in her last marathon.
    I remember him from the TVXC, little fella, always looked like he'd got dressed in the dark.
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2
    Reg Wand said:
    Stevie G said:
    Reminds me of a maniac from my old club who raced something like a 2.45 marathon one morning.
    Then was seen doing a 30min 5mile undulating race on the same evening!

    Then did a 5k race the next evening.

    Think he ended up getting utterly clattered, but not before turning up on tv in screenshot with Paula Radcliffe for ages in her last marathon.
    I remember him from the TVXC, little fella, always looked like he'd got dressed in the dark.
    He was notorious for borrowing kit and turning up late etc.
    His PO10 doesn't do him much justice. The marathon time yes, but the rest definitely not.

    He and I make for a horrible combo in a photo, as I'm all lanky, upright and twitchy, and he's already exceptionally short, but makes himself shorter by his style that can only be described as "looking for a contact lense he's lost". A furious style action too.

    Though not as mad as a guy at Wokey once whose style can only be described as manically climbing an invisible ladder. Never seen an arm action like it. His arms must be more fatigued than his legs!
  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭
    My Garmin had Abo down as 26.36M Reg. The worst though was Eynsham 10k, with the Garmin reckoning I went through 6.214M in 35:59, but the actual (accurately measured) finish line being 16s later!

    There's some stark realities ahead for some folk in terms of actual race times!

    8.2M hilly off-road for a change at lunchtime today...
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    That's what we're all scared of Bus, we're all pretending we've just stayed in or around our best despite just doing mainto stuff for months :D 
  • JooliganJooligan ✭✭✭
    I’ve done the course measurement for the 10K I organise in July. 
    Well I ran it to check it with my watch GPS & then cycled it again.
    I then met the official course measured & cycled it with him twice. 
    He moved my proposed start/finish line back which is why we did it twice. My GPS then made it 10.1K! Course measurers also add 0.1% deliberately to ensure courses are at least the stated distance.
    Could be that wfh/furlough means folk are getting more sleep & thus maximising the training benefits. Just a thought.
    Easy double traverse of the local peak (May Hill) this evening: 1800’ in 10.7M with about 4M of that on grass/trail. Kept the HR below 136 even on the climbs & came out as 9:33 pace. 
    Also had a spin on the bike for 65 minutes at lunchtime.
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 3
    Yep, that's also a good point - that you'll very rarely do the exact distance in a race, even if you're the king of following the racing line.

    However, the race day magic should still override what you can do solo. Unless you're very rare, or better trained/on the way up like we saiid before.

    Jools, I'm always amazed at your hunger for these climbs.

    I just went and did 9, including a trudge up a steep golf course climb. It always feels like it's the first time I've ever run, and I'm stunned how lacking in power I am.

    Probably overthinking it, as the whole run still came out 7.17 pace, but I suppose 1mile up even if it's in the mid 8s is easily averaged out by quicker miles on glorious smooth road.

    I suppose it also depends what type of climbs we're talking too.
    There's a road mile I do that has 80 feet in I believe, but it's fairly well balanced out, so you don't feel it much. Whereas, clearly, if you're doing 80 feet over 1/3 to 1/4 mile you'll feel it more, and offroad, even more!

    Today was worth it as once you're "Up", you have a nice couple of miles smooth flat round a local village, and then the lovely downhill!
  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭
    Mee meep is Everesting in a week this week as part of his BG prep!!!  He's on 12,500ft so far....

    Early doors 8.2m, 1000ft fro me this morning. Bit sluggish and rather cold, but happy the mud is now nice and firm!
  • Reg WandReg Wand ✭✭✭
    edited March 3
    I did 8 miles in the muddy hills yesterday, it's the sort of run these days I pay no attention to pace whatsoever. It was slow but in the recovery zone. Last team time trial last night was fun and then 60 minutes easy on the wattbike for lunch. I am into a training plan now for 14 weeks up to the Ironman. I will keep it fairly informal but with targets overall for training time. It's kind of weird but nice putting no swimming into it!
  • SCoombes2SCoombes2 ✭✭✭
    Jools - More sleep? I wish. I think Bon Jovi 'Sleep 'till i'm dead' will be my theme tune (banger!), i'm just incapable of going to bed early - even though I know it's good for me and could also make me a better runner..madness really

    The usual 9& 5 Monday and then ventured back on the track yesterday lunchtime for 30 x 200. Not too busy, should be better again next week.

    Routine will be back to running to school with the kid on the bike, then 6/7 hilly miles back. 
  • JooliganJooligan ✭✭✭
    I’m the same Simon. But then we’re not, & never have been, on furlough. I’ve been mainly wfh during this lockdown & was entirely during the 1st one but Since commuting time was usually used for training I’m not sure I gained anything.
    Proper session for me this afternoon. Not even tried a (not)parkrun in 8 weeks so it was a shock to the system 😆
    1 mile wu/[email protected]:40 off [email protected]:20/1M cd was the plan.
    Reps came out as 6:41/6:39/6:26/6:32/6:41/6:49 with the floats at 7:16/7:16/7:12/7:20/7:34. Happy with that as I initially thought 5 would be sufficient but realised 6 fitted better so opted for that.
    Transitioned from tarmac to rough towpath halfway through the 5th rep. Nearly canned the 6th as my guts started grumbling at the same time as the surface degenerated but they calmed again during the cruise before coming back with a vengeance on the 6th but calmed down again on the cruise & warm-down.

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    Nice one Jools. You always know when you're working on that cusp of the right level, in that you feel you need to "unleash", but then the feeling goes away!
  • Matthew HeadMatthew Head ✭✭✭
    First proper run back yesterday, a blistering 7:55/mi for 5.2 miles! Effort was high, but was able to keep my foot on the gas throughout, so it's a win in my book. My legs (in particular my quads) know I've not done a lot for 8 weeks!

    Keep up the good running all, it's looking good for a return to racing.
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    8 weeks MH! You must have been chomping to get back out there!

    Nice work put a fb update out that sounded a bit more cautious. Along the lines that they still need their insurance etc, and therefore were cancelling their Easter races, and going for 10/11th April as their best case start date.
    And then another note about how it's all dependent on land owners etc...

    Hopefully runthrough and more local events gangs have less of that red tape.

    9 this morning for the same distance every day for 4 days. Not by design, just ball park really. Took ages to encourage myself out so just about got back and sorted for 9.

    F OFF work tomorrow, so will consider either a track sesh/seg pump, or what have we. Either way need to get the faster paces touched a bit.
  • JooliganJooligan ✭✭✭
    Easier day for me today. Legs were OK but figured a recovery run would be more productive in the long run so [email protected]:37 on a borderline hilly run but never let the HR get above easy effort.
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    Weighing up between a seg blast tomorrow, or something more structured like 5x1mile progressive or 6-8x1mile at 10mile pace...

    Day off, so will not be doing it particularly early either way!
  • SorequadsSorequads ✭✭✭

    Enjoy the F OFF, SG. Sounds like it could be a seg smash morning right now.

    That is a great session, Jools. I intend to try introducing more float style work like this. And for anyone who hasn’t done it, Jools does organise a cracking summer 10k. Super views and a lovely pub at the start finish. But a brutal last couple of hundred metres!

    Final week of home schooling and have managed to fit in some solid running, without about 10M each day. Seemingly no adverse vaccination reaction. Never seem to get one from the flu jab each year, but of course this could have been different – and certainly seems different for individuals.

    Tempo Tuesday was 15, 12, 9 mins with 4 min jogs. Pace about 6:25 down to 6:15. Really enjoy those time-based sessions and the miles seem to accumulate rapidly when you’re not waiting for the bleep/vibration each mile.

    Yesterday was 200s. Used a very quiet little road that leads to a small holiday park. Three speed bumps that nicely mark out 2 x 200m ish. 3 x 4 x 200, with 200 jogs and 600 between sets. Good to think about form. Always a surprisingly tough session. Feels like it shouldn’t be, given the short distances, but well outside my usual far. Nice to see strava logging a couple of sub 5m/m paces on the segment – although who knows how accurate this might be.


  • SCoombes2SCoombes2 ✭✭✭
    Good work SQ - Try the 30 x 200 I did at some point when you can get on a track. 10 with 10 secs, 10 with 20 and 10 with 30. Obviously toughness of session depends on how fast you do the 200's!

    SG - Got an email from Active Training World and they are hoping to do the final xc over at Watford on the 10th April. Thought I had finished with xc this year....

    Glad to see you back MH!

    Work commute Weds and did 12x400 on the track in near darkness by the end yesterday. Put the Adios on, averaged about 76's with 45 secs recovery roughly. How the hell I managed 12.5 laps quicker than that when I did my 15.27 i'll never know..different person (and I hate him ;))
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    Screw that for a game of soldiers SC. Although very happy if you do all the xc so I don't have to :)

    Don't worry about past glories - all pbs are up for grabs from April. PC, not PB, for "post covid" :)
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    Took ages to get out for my sesh, and took ages out there!

    In the end I fancied a 10k sort of intensity effort, so went for a Moraghan style session of 6x1k off 90secs, but threw a bolton of some segs attempts at the end as a "part 2".

    Vaguely thought 10k would be something like 5.40ish, but being honest I put some 5ks distanced races in at that in Sep-Oct, so just a guide.


    However, went pretty excellently to plan really
    4x3.30, 1x3.31, and 1x3.33

    The 3.33 was slowed by two vans parking awkwardly across a pavement meaning tiptoing round traffic a little, so probably slows the average to 3.31, and 17.35 sort of pace 5k, but at 10k effort, so that felt really good.

    For part 2, I had a few segs in mind, but it seemed a brilliant opportunity to get a seg I lost about 10 days ago back.
    A 1/2mile loop needing 5.21 pace. So that seemed ideal, to follow up 10k pace work with a faster lash.

    Paced it nicely, and got it back at about 5.15 pace.

    Then had a little mosey over to a 0.08m hill seg, but to be honest didn't have the legs for a lash up there, so just jogged up - and I'm surprised to see mid 8s has got me 3rd place :D 

    2 last lashes at that 1/10th mile grassy sprint at Wooburn in the opposite direction to the one I put in 3.38 pace at the other week, but strangely enough about 8miles in and a proper session in the legs, AND into wind, nowhere near the 4.06 pace needed....28secs versus 24.

    But 11 miles all in, 47 for the week, meaning a nice SAT OFF and just 13needed Sunday for the minimal lockdown singles fare of 60.

  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭
    Good , er double sesh SG! Not been on for a couple of days, but glad to see Matt getting back on it, usual quality sessions from SQ, Jools and Simon and Reg starting to enjoy middle aged running :wink:

    Good run myself tonight. After a couple of sluggish weeks I actually felt pretty strong on this evenings 9 miler. The 8:26 pace aint setting any records, but it was 1100ft and all off road - the type of route I've been struggling to even hit 9 on lately, even with the mud firming up! 

    Amazing how one decent run can change your mood as well!
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    Definitely does Bus. I'm starting the move back to "proper" sessions now, and they always give satisfaction.
    Segs etc are fun, but miscellaneous paces, rests and the sheer random nature of how they're all laid out is no real substitute for the real sessions.

    However, the races are within sight now, so best get it going a bit :)

    Our club have done a "bingo" card of little tasks to do. Like erm...pass 3 post boxes on one run.
    Cue loads of people posting photos of such stuff on the group :D 
    If it engages people fair enough!
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    13 today then, fairly flat to Little Marlow, with a little offroad bit behind the track, and over the bridge into Marlow, then back round, and up my little trail/wood climb route I took ages perfecting.

    7.15 average, so going alright for that to feel comfy with a couple of miles offroad/rolling clock avoiding people/going through gates.
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