Moraghan Training - Stevie G

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  • SCoombes2SCoombes2 ✭✭✭
    SG - It was short about 7/8 years ago, but folk's PB's still stand on PO10 as normal and I don't think it's marked as short. Good race though!

    Good win there Reggie, good showing off before some yummy mummies eh ;) Good runs Bus and Jools too.

    HHH didn't qualify for the national relays this year, so Dunstable Downs Parkrun with the kid on saturday, 23.49 this time, harder course than last week at Buckingham, so he was happy with a course PB.

    Then home to do that horrible 8 minute tempo, 10 x 400, 8 minute tempo session. 3 minutes before and after the 400's, 60 secs recovery for the 400's. And it was horrible. Good 5k training tho.

    17 miler yesterday (17.11mm pace) - need to buy more NB Propel, getting a bit flat.
  • JooliganJooligan ✭✭✭
    edited October 11
    Great weekend's running Simon. Like that session after the casual parkrun warm-up.
    About 5 years ago I used to do a session which was similar but longer so 1M wu/3M Tempo/8x800m/3M Tempo/cd all efforts had c.2min walking recoveries. Can't imagine being able to handle that session now & certainly wouldn't touch those paces. I was doing 6:25-6:20 for the tempos & 5:50 for the 800s
    Saying that I had a great 5M today along the canal: legs bouncing, low HR & came out at 7:23 average which is, apparently, my fastest on that route. After 20M with a struggle in the final 3M yesterday, an early start & a long drive up from Devon first thing. Go figure.
    Funnily enough 2nd fastest was exactly a year ago & 7:25 average the day after an hour at 6:50 as part of a virtual relay the club were doing. I'd driven up from Devon early doors that Monday too.
  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭
    Good racing from Reg and SG, and not sure if that report isn't a record in itself SG? :smiley:

    Pretty full-on weekend Simon!

    Philip - I spoke to her after briefly. Not that far from the hills - we were on top of one (albeit a relative tiddler of course :wink: )

    Up at first light for a 5M this morning, and did a couple of quick MTB rides in the sunset the past two nights. Rude not given the rides right on my doorstep and the lovely evenings. Trying to make the most of being able to squeeze something in post work and pre-dark!
  • SorequadsSorequads ✭✭✭

    Nice reports from Reg and SG. Good turnouts! Silverstone certainly sounds like it has that ‘big race’ feel. And Reg secured some serious dad points 💪. 

    An ideal distance to your local parkrun, Bus. Do you know Macca (from the P&D thread)? He is local to there - and an absolute legend. 

    A brief, but great write up, Joe. Really pleased you had such a good day. And I have no doubt Katie will dip beneath the magic barrier soon. 

    Very nice tempo sandwich, SG. That certainly will be strong 5k training. 

    A paltry 20M last week, and feeling a bit shit with eating too much crap. Found some resolve today, enjoyed 10 easy miles along the canal with my mate the heron, and feeling much better for it.

    Kind of forgot that I entered the Broadway trail marathon (7th November) back in January - whoops! No aspirations that to enjoy myself, but think it could be wise to run at least one hill in advance 😆 

  • Sorequads said:

    Kind of forgot that I entered the Broadway trail marathon (7th November) back in January - whoops! No aspirations that to enjoy myself, but think it could be wise to run at least one hill in advance 😆 

    That looks to be a brutal race! The 2019 winner did so in 3:25 and that year he did 2:26 at Frankfurt so no slouch at all. I was there a few months ago and walked the footpath from Broadway to the Tower and I am sure 99.9% of the "runners" will be doing the same. Guess it is a case of walking the steep bits and run between.
  • Sorequads said:

    An ideal distance to your local parkrun, Bus. Do you know Macca (from the P&D thread)? He is local to there - and an absolute legend. 

    I don't think he is local. Macca has run a lot in Wendover Woods as they have a silly run there: 10 x 10 mile loops on forest trails but he runs for St Albans which is a few more junctions around the M25. 
  • SorequadsSorequads ✭✭✭
    PhilipMJones said:
    Sorequads said:

    Kind of forgot that I entered the Broadway trail marathon (7th November) back in January - whoops! No aspirations that to enjoy myself, but think it could be wise to run at least one hill in advance 😆 

    That looks to be a brutal race! The 2019 winner did so in 3:25 and that year he did 2:26 at Frankfurt so no slouch at all. I was there a few months ago and walked the footpath from Broadway to the Tower and I am sure 99.9% of the "runners" will be doing the same. Guess it is a case of walking the steep bits and run between.
    I think a lot depends upon the conditions - lots of rain, ploughed fields etc. I ran 3:4x there in 2014 and then ran sub 3 for the first time a few months later. But yes - very hilly! Beautiful part of the world though, and great that you have been walking there. 

    I think that when I did the marathon I walked the steepest sections up to the Tower (which is within half a mile of the start), although have just about kept running the entire way during a shorter 5M race that includes the same climb. 
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    Quiet couple of days by the looks of it then!

    Treated myself to a 3&3 easy Monday, then back to it with a 6&4 Tue, before one of those lightish sort of sessions today, with 8miles, with 15x1min off 1min in the middle.

    Usual midweek route up a hill and into fields and a small wood midway, so naturally some of those middle reps were ludicrously slow. I think the hill "rep" versus "hill" recovery were pretty similar!
    Couple sub 6 at least. Seems quite hard to whip the pace up in these without a proper stop.

    Will weigh up booting some 1km reps on Friday. 
    If 36.53 is my current 10k pace, 5.57 miling (if we take it literally off the race result, rather than the watch of 5.51) then 1.29 per 400m is my 10k pace.
    But we'll see how it goes and where the reps take place. Grass v road v track all different outcomes.
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    League cross country season starts up soon. 6 events.

    Not particularly keen at doing too many, but I might do the first one, as I've never done it, it has a silly river to cross (twice) and I "should" definitely score as we have a mad set of absentees :D 

    But after that I'd prefer to be enjoying a few road races, what with the whole 18months of stuff binned off bar a few profiteering companies efforts.
  • JooliganJooligan ✭✭✭
    Ticking over nicely SG.
    Double track for me yesterday with 3x 3’/2’/1’ off a minute at lunch. Progressed the paces through the reps & each set was supposed to be quicker than the last but I’d gone a bit hard in the 2nd so the 3rd came out pretty much the same.
    Club was 2x1M off 2’/2x0.5M off 1’ & 4x0.25M off 50” Managed a perfect progression of paces 😎
    7K recovery at lunch today then a trot out with my Wednesday gang: a hilly 10K at a very leisurely pace to find 2 trig pillars. Guinness & crisps in the car park afterwards.
    Our first XC is this Saturday in Cardiff & is also the 1st counter in the British Athletics Cross Challenge series so should be a few famous names racing. Our race is at 2:50 & the women are an hour earlier so should get to see them at least. Then it’s a case of avoiding getting lapped by the leaders in the Men’s race 😆
  • Reg WandReg Wand ✭✭✭
    I love the fact that Jools can't even be satisfied with a single track session!

    SG - I did the Metros once, albeit a slightly different course 'sans' river. If we are able to go to Wales for half-term I will miss that one. There may well be 7 events though as we look to have secured a replacement venue for St Neots (school restrictions) for the TVT one. If successful it will be at Sherfield School, a bit of a trek for you potentially.

    MOT for my car yesterday so I ran an for an hour whilst I waited and then played football last night for the first time in two and a half years, think I would fail an MOT this morning after that though.
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭

    Following a couple of 10k races, I fancied a 10k paced, or at least intensity sesh.
    I'm out of the habit of track at the moment, so doing my efforts in and around the locality. Great time saver, if not great for those top end paces.

    Fancied 7x1km off 90secs, as I always think of the 8x1km as the peaking session, so 7km felt decent volume.


    3.48, 3.38, 3.36, 3.42, 3.40, 3.41, 3.38


    First rep a little skewed as it was the one with 90% grass, and a cheeky little wind. No strides before hand either probably didn't get the engine up to full temp :)

    If we take 36.53 on Sunday as being for 10k, rather than the 10k + 0.11miles of the watch, and that's what you have to do really - go with the official split, then that would be current race pace is 3.41 a km.

    So, outlier of the first km aside, all pretty much in and around that. For road stuff that's feels right.
    If i went and did these on the track as you'd expect, I'd of course hope for a bit quicker.

    Felt good to do what I'd almost call the first "proper" session for a couple of months.
    If I've done a few of these 15x1min, or 1, 3, 5min "effort" type jobs round the park, but this felt proper, back at it training :)


  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    Double track Jools? Was one with the kids or something, and the club one the main one then?

    Reg - noooo... 6 events is already a few too many to find excuses for, we don't need a 7th :D 
    :smile:

    I had to double check, but I've only done metros once, back in Dec 2012.... 2012!!! Almost 9 years ago. Came 6th that day!
    A bizarre 3 lapper with a decent climb.

    It's not at least down to a 2 lapper, but all about whether the river is empty or full.
    I didn't like the comment in the fb group about how it "should" be "safer" this year!

    And comments about how there will be marshals on hand to help those who can't get out of the river onto the bank!! What on earth!?
    But you can go round apparently :D 
  • Reg WandReg Wand ✭✭✭
    I suspect it's the slightly less athletic types at the back that struggle to get out of the stream!

    Quite bad DOMS for me today post football on Wednesday night, managed to amble out 4.5 miles at 8:46 pace this morning.
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    Not surprised you're getting the stiffness post footy in your mid 40s mate :D 

    I'd tighten up 20 years back! But the beauty with football is you'd typically have days to recover for the next game, and not be doing something the next day.

    I don't know how deep this river can get, but I dare say it's the less height blessed runners who it could be a bit ropey for!
    Imagine if it's a foot river and you're just about 5 foot :o 

    I will never forget my little "dunking" in summer down to my neck, and it's quite an upset to the system!

    I don't know how far into the course this river comes up, but even if it's at the end of a lap, you still have best part of 3miles being soaked to deal with. Even having soaked feet can be miserable at times.
  • SCoombes2SCoombes2 ✭✭✭
    Good 5M effort Jools and good K session SG.

    8.46 pace Reggie? That must have been a real John Wayne job  on those achy legs!

    Had an awayday in London Tuesday so was good to get back on the canal early doors for 20 x 200m with 30 secs.

    Then the commute Wednesday, 10 for the day and just easy running yesterday. Picked a new pair of NB Propel for £60 from Sportsshoes so gave them a run out.

    Just did some strides this morning, as first Surrey League tomorrow at Richmond Pk. Hopefully a few pints after too.
  • JooliganJooligan ✭✭✭
    Stevie G said:
    Double track Jools? Was one with the kids or something, and the club one the main one then?
    Yeah 1st was my lunchtime club with the kids & 2nd was the club session. 1st was 18 minutes of effort & 2nd was 25 minutes so not much in it really. The track at work is better than the club's so I go hard & let the kids do their thing - most end up doing less than me.
    Lunchtime track club again yesterday: 12x200m on/off. Minimal 7K recovery today
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 15
    Are you on some sort of mission to see what makes you break, Jools? :)
  • JooliganJooligan ✭✭✭
    Just trying to coax some speed out of my legs. I’ve dropped the mileage a bit recently to compensate.

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 17
    14miler for me.

    Fancied getting out to Marlow and seeing if I could roughly replicate the Marlow 10miler route, that I raced the 10k version of 2 weeks ago.

    Vague plan was 2miles to the park the race starts in, 10mile route, and 2miles back.

    Knew it wouldn't be that easy to replicate as it's woods I've never dipped into, so all manner of little false trails and pishing abouts went on, before I found what is very likely the bit used, nice smoother woodland.

    I'd dribbled up the 150 feet 1/4mile bit, and then a few miles later, not really knowing where I was, wrongly picked the "slight" down (that was actually a very steep long down, that only allowed tip toe pace) rather than  straight on and ended up at the foot of that again - doh!
    Didn't have the heart to do that again, so did the more staggered climb version up to Winter Hill, and then the sweep round and through that lovely set of gates!!

    One four mile section came out averaging 9.20 which is some madness, and 8.07 all in, for probably one of the slowest average paces I've ever done.
    Feels a bit tight now as well!

    59.5mile week.

    One of our faster Dashers did a 75.41HM today, matching my pb to the second. That was some strange coincidence. Obviously he's doing it at 40, not almost a decade younger like I was, but still a nice symmetry :D 
    Moz got me into great shape back then!

    However, generally really pleased to still be turning out, over a decade into this thread, and almost 2 decades since I first raced a HM, enjoying it, and looking to beat the current times, next time out, so can't complain :)
  • SorequadsSorequads ✭✭✭
    Impressive k reps, SG. Especially off less than perfect terrain, warm up etc. I reckon a drenching in an XC is ok, especially when you are racing hard. As long as you can get some fresh clothes on fairly sharpish at the finish. 

    Double track day would destroy me, Jools!

    Relatively last minute decision - Friday evening - to enter Cleevewold with an EOD. On my doorstep (well, a ten minute drive), and perfect prep for Broadway marathon. 

    Have done this maybe four or five times before - a very tough 14M with over 2000ft elevation and tough trails, styles, gates, nettles, through bushes and more. 

    It really is such a brilliant, brutal race. And this was with one hill missing!

    In fifth at the top of the first climb, and absolutely loved seeing the family at the golf club, before slowly worked my way into second. Then top three got lost in a field. A few shouts, scramble over a double barbed wire fence, and then back into fifth. Worked my way back into second/third but probably burnt a few too many matches in the process. 

    Climbs were brutal and relentless. With some interesting nettles and bushes to clamber through! Legs destroyed by 9M and had to let a club mate pull away. Still, delighted to come third. 

    Five local beers (finishing, third and team prize). For me, the perfect race: views, trails, friendly and fun 😃. Legs destroyed now, and covered in cuts and scratches. I really appreciated the change in paces and views - reminded me how amazing trail racing is. 

    Enjoyed a comedy one mile walk/trot back to the car with a cardboard box full on the beers. 

    Honestly, significantly more tired than after London marathon. 50M for the week and a definite recovery day tomorrow. 

    Oh - and a random observation. Did parkrun with the buggy yesterday. 95% grass with a few hills. A very surprising number of runners in full on Next% or Alphafly. Very strange. 

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 17
    Looks a hard race SQ. Triple my 14's elevation, and obviously at race effort!
    Good podium work too. Sounds a race you'll get some DOMS from to say the least, but one of those races that are fun to throw in every so often, like my Marlow 10k MT the other week.

    People using next on parkruns with grassy courses is very strange. They clearly have more money than sense.
    If it was Dulwich which is a fast smooth one, I can see that, but not MT ones!


    Been looking for 10ks in the next few months. Not much on really outside of those companies who gave us distanced stuff with their multi distance stuff.

    The two fast ones in Oxfordshire are either full already (Eynsham end of Nov), or not on (Andy Reading early Dec)
    Telford is closed for the 2 faster races, and it's a bit of a stretch to drive 2hours or more for a C race.

    There is one at Battersea Park, albeit a Saturday morning 8.30am job. That's an ask, as I'd probably have to get going at about 6.30 to make sure that goes to plan, and be up at 5.30 as I like to eat 3hours before :o 

    I remember I was looking at that one, but got distracted by them mentioning some 2mile races they were running - turns out they were utterly pointless "for the community" virtual gub.

    A few decent 5mile options though.... Victory 5 and one Ruislip type way I've forgotten the name of, and Hatfield, which myself, Bus, Big Phil and a local pal did in 2017.

    Fancy a 5mile double up - 5milers always feel more fun than 10ks, almost the same pace but 1.2miles shorter!
  • SQ, looks like a good outing. If you need any help with the beer I'm willing to be of assistance. Those long, low-key, offroad races are sometimes a lottery when it comes to navigation: a small club can't put out enough marshalls to have one at every junction so there is a reliance on "keep going straight ahead unless told otherwise" and if the route diverges gently it is a toss-up between the right and wrong paths.  I've done a few in my days when the whole lead pack went wrong and never got corrected and it is only when you are 5 miles into a 10k and know full well you are still 3 miles from the finish (and that involves a u-turn) that the penny reluctantly drops. 


  • SCoombes2SCoombes2 ✭✭✭
    Good reps SG and Jools. SQ that race sounds mental! Good going getting on the podium and getting the booze prize too!

    Quick report from Richmond park, 1st Surrey Lge xc. Course is pretty dry and a few stony paths too, we approach the old course via a 500m straight, do two 80% laps of the old course and back down the straight to finish. After the first couple of K I managed to stay in the same place for most of the race, wasn't much change.

    Stomach held out ok, sadly in the last K it really started griping and had to waddle to the bogs straight after the finish. Felt pretty strong through most of the race...Came 70th or 68th out of 244, 4th V45. Standard not dropping any time soon!

    Results if anyone interested..

    Surrey League Cross-Country

  • JooliganJooligan ✭✭✭
    Good results Simon SQ.
    Your pace was sharp for XC SC2. Did you have many absentees from the top of the field due to the Cardiff Cross-Challenge on Saturday?
    I was racing there as it was also the 1st Gwent League fixture. I did parkrun beforehand in a lacklustre 20:27 (my 2nd slowest of 10 visits there) Felt like my legs were still tight & underpowered from Thursday's track session in spite of Friday's recovery run. As a result I didn't have high expectations of myself for the afternoon's XC. I was guaranteed to score though as I'd only managed to scrape a full team of 5 runners together by calling on a 67 yr old stalwart who raced with the Ladies in the MV65+ contest last season & had planned to do so again.
    We arrived early & I trotted round the course behind the Ladies about 8 minutes after they'd set off. The course was dry & fast throughout. Was being caught by the lead pack after a mile so we stepped off to cheer everyone through before jogging round to the start.
    I positioned myself well back as I knew I didn't want to go out too hard & suffer for it. I took the first K easy (4:33) as planned but did end up slightly boxed in after the climb as a result - the descents are usually my chance to gain several places/yards but I was further back than usual so it was a bit too congested. However I did get a shift on & pass several people with a 4:01 K. I continued to move through the field by holding a pretty consistent pace which varied only as a result of that climb/descent. I even managed a Strava PR on the final 220m which was 3:16/K apparently though even that didn't prevent me losing 4 places on the sprint - the only time I got overtaken the whole race after the initial K. I was 1st scorer for the club B) but in a lowly 265th! :#
    I was pleased with my race though & the average pace matched that morning's parkrun pace & almost identical to my road 10K last month.
    Steady 8M yesterday & a recovery 4M today
  • Reg WandReg Wand ✭✭✭
    Nice one SQ, sounds like a fun race. I guess once you've used the VPs for a low key race then it's hard to go back to normal shoes. 

    Good pace SC, must be some standard if you're down that far. 

    Well done on another action packed weekend Jools.

    I did an 11 miler to cap a 34 mile week with two swims and not much cycling. That's 4 weeks at 30+ now and I am hoping to up it until I get to mid 40s before starting a 12 week plan to Wokingham half.
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    Must be a good standard indeed Sc.
    One of our coaches offered some free guest places with the cautionary "it is high standard though" :)

    Jools - need to know how many were in the field really.... 265th out of 73,000 is superb, whereas if it's out of 264 something has gone wrong ;)
    1st scorer in the club suggests it was a decent performance, and a larger field than Simon's super serious outings.


    3x10mins off 90secs for me today.

    Raced 10k sub 6, and did my 1k reps around that last week, so it seemed sensible to expect 10min reps to come out a bit slower, but not "too" much slower.

    1/3 of the 1st and 3rd reps were across a slightly wet grassy park, but I ended up having a fun old rampage across bits of town.

    I made the slight mistake of having the auto miles on, so instead of 10min average pace, i've got 1mile splits and then the rest of the 10mins as a second...

    Mile 1       rest of 10mins      Distance    Average pace
    6.12.21    3.47.78                1.61              6.13
    6.12.81    3.47.18                1.62              6.10
    6.12.84    3.47.15                1.63              6.08


    Strikingly similar sort of breakdown, but the reps got quicker/slightly further distance as I got to full warmth!

    Quite enjoyable, and happy with a 6.10 sort of mixer for just under 5miles quality.

    Next step I suppose is to make these a "full" sort of threshold tempo, perhaps if I'm averaging 6.10 for 5miles in this breakdown, then 6.15-6.20 for a 5-6mile continuous seems realistic.

    No wonder a spell of those sort of tempos, and then increasing little bits within the tempo used to bear some quality results, it's strong training.
    But probably the hardest sort of runs to get "Up" for.
  • SCoombes2SCoombes2 ✭✭✭
    Good session SG = Yes tempos are my least favourite training tool, horrible things to have to get done. Don't mind the shorter rep type usually.

    Thanks All - the Surrey and Met leagues are silly in quality levels - part of the big gang of 4 with the Birmingham and Manchester leagues. Ground was nice and firm so was able to keep the pace up ok.

    Good race Jools. There was some speculation that the challenge and the Great South run the next day might dilute the quality, but it seemed ok to me!

    The missus is having something done (nothing serious) on the date of the next fixture, so I will have to take the kid to Chiltern league at MK, where the next Cross challenge is. So should be able to get a non scoring number for that if that's what pans out.

    Luton tonight and Thursday too this week.
  • JooliganJooligan ✭✭✭
    They've adjusted the results so I was 240th (of 433) so it was more a case of a weak team. Last season (19-20) I was 5th & 4th counter for the 1st 2 fixtures & only just made the B team for the 3rd & 4th fixtures. This was a testament to my captaincy (cajoling) as it brought us promotion to Division 2 (of 4). Unfortunately we'll be heading straight back down unless I can persuade some of our quick youngsters to come & play - we're 2nd from bottom as it stands & quite a long way adrift of the next team & safety.
    Easy 4M this morning before work. Our school's currently experiencing a surge in Covid cases so all clubs have been cancelled so I decided not to go over the track for a wet n windy solo session. I was only going to do 12 laps with strides up the home straight anyway. I'll go up the club tonight for XC recruitment but shan't bother running. Might get a proper taper in this week  ;)
  • Reg WandReg Wand ✭✭✭
    Nice session SG.

    I did a session, or at least attempted one this morning. I'd done a Zwift race the night before which turned out to be quite exciting, having been dropped on lap 1 of 2 during a mid lap sprint, I was in the second chase pack of places 25-40ish but we were only 16 seconds behind chase group 1 with about 20 in that group. I started hitting the front of our group with the help of a team mate and we got the gap down to 10 seconds just before the short climb, at which point I attacked from our group and did 8 w/kg (585 watts) for 40 seconds to bridge across to the next group and then had to desperately hang on to them whilst I recovered before the main climb. Hung on for the climb and finished in the top half of that group in the sprint for 13th. All in a 65 minute race at about 300 watts so a good workout.

    Back to more familiar territory, I had an 18 minute tempo in the plan, planned to do it this afternoon but things to do today so had to do it on still tired legs. After a couple of miles warm up I decided a 5k made sense but in that first km I just couldn't get my heart rate up. Pace wasn't too bad at 6 minute miles or 18:37 for the 5k but HR was a good 10 beats below true threshold. Hopefully that means I am not too far off 5:45 a mile on fresh legs for an LT run, which is my initial target. 

    Also is it just me sweating more now than in the summer?
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