Moraghan Training - Stevie G



  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    I'm always interested in people's definitions, but 6.20 for you Simon is surely the "faster than easy pace" definition only? What Moraghan would call "steady?"

    As surely if we took the literal threshold/tempo pace of being your 10mile pace, that'd be about 5.30 for you, and off your HM and past marathons you'd probably turn a marathon out at 6 dead.

    For me, we can be sure my current 5m pace is 5.43 having done one the other week, that potentially means 10k could be about 5.45? Meaning 10mile and HMP potentially in the sort of 5.55 and 6 ish sort of mixer right now?

    So HMP + 10-15secs would be my "theoretical" MP pace, but we call it continuous threshold not to alarm people :D  Thus 6.10-6.15.

    Your 6.20s might feel like the cigar you're smoking has a cigar on :D 
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
     2x4s for me today.

    Feel ever so slightly tickly throated, yesterday was a packed day with a morn tempo, lunchtime run, and Wycombe game, all on a cold day too not helping. 
    Morning 4 was ropey just jog it off job, but lunch 4 more lively. However, a nice sleep won't go amiss!
  • SG - The bottom line is what you consider Tempo pace to be. Yours is definitely faster than mine ;) All about definitions isn't it. I'll do 6.00 at some point and see how I feel at the end!
  • Plenty of racing in your running mix Simon so a good reason to go easier on the tempos.
    Easy 5M recovery on the canal yesterday morning then back there for another session before work today.
    Crescendo Intervals session: 1M wu then 6'/5'/4'/3'/2'/1'/30" intervals with half-time jog recoveries then a 1M cd
    Target paces 6:50/6:40/6:30/6:20/6:10/6:00/5:50
    Actual paces 6:51/6:37/6:28/6:17/6:07/5:49/5:41 B)
    Recoveries hovered around 8:20 pace except for the final 30s which I walked. Had to rein myself in on the first couple of reps as I started too quickly each time - slightly overdid it on the 1st :/
    [email protected]:17 all in
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    Good point there Jools. Although if you applied it to your own training, you'd never do any sessions with all your racing :)

    Crescendo Interval sounds an incredible name! Paints a picture of boiling up to an absolute seething throng of effort late doors :D 

    I follow the Islwyn lot on facebook (murder mile lot) and their main guy did a fixtures list for 2022. Didn't see the Murder Mile in there, but I assume that's a low organisation, arrange in summer sort of thing, especially after a couple of years without one.

    But the 4mile Rose Inn series are "tbc"
    I must do one of those next year, and finally sort that 4mile pb, that I think sits at 24.20
  • Good reps there Jools. Agree about the tempos.

    Stag Trophy thing last night, 3 lap blast around town, 13.40 for 4k, so was ok. Lots of 90 degree turns etc so not ideal and a bit breezy. Decent training though.
  • That description nails it SG. With the pace sharpening & recovery dropping it certainly felt like "an absolute seething throng of effort" by the end. Good fun though :) 
  • Nice 'Crescendo' intervals  :D, glad we've settled the debate on Si's Adagio pace, my tempo might have been a bit too allegro based on my hamstring, which was a bit sore the next day, it may have been the club Zwift chain gang/race I did a few hours after however! Took a rest day Wednesday and just a long swim Thursday. Leg felt a lot better today so tested it out on a 5k loop just in case I needed to walk it in but managed 4 loops pain free for an easy 13.1. The classic test your hamstring distance. 
  • 'Allegro' - That word always has a place in my heart. Not the most glamourous place for it to happen...but needs must....

    Southern Masters tomorrow. Always quite a nervy one as we try for team medals and usually nearer the front too, less hiding...Hey ho, hopefully the guts play ball etc...
  • But were you a Maestro in the Allegro Simon?

  • For those of you who are local and run on the Thames Path, may just be Reg (apart from SG when he goes mud hole diving), it has gotten very muddy, very quickly, very early, between Marlow and Temple Lock. It normally gets muddy along this section but it now has puddles that are side to side and too long to jump over with confidence of a safe take-off and landing. 

    The Marlow parkrun passes along that route as well: I can't see ho what is going to continue all this winter. 
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    Bus - wasnt it Princess with Allegro, and Maestro with Montegro?
  • I'm confused, are we talking about crappy British Leyland cars or sexual conquests? 
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    I was thinking crappy cars, dont think simon was, wonder if he knows any Princesses?
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    I would not want to run "mud hole diving" through the urban dictionary!
  • Stevie G said:
    I would not want to run "mud hole diving" through the urban dictionary!
  • TR said:
    I was thinking crappy cars, dont think simon was, wonder if he knows any Princesses?
    I had a spell working for Rover and had a whole string of fleet vehicles from them and can confirm the crappy nature. One was delivered with no coolant so had a very short lifespan. 
  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭
    Morris Marina
    I crossed paths with one of these things a few days back.
    Seeing the look of horror on the face of the old chap behind the wheel. Well, we've heard of the tale of the Ancient Mariner. 

  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    Is that a Marina ? I used to drive one of those when i first passed my test. I often see someone driving a Capri.
  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭
    Yes, a good old Morris Marina.

    Below is my dads 1978 2 litre S Capri.
    Did that thing go!

    Others are my first car Escort 1300E
    And the oldest registered MK1 XR2

    Had that XR for over twenty years. Had to get rid of it for family reasons. 

  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    Theres a guy near me with an old escort like that, and another couple of similar cars, that he keeps in a special built garage with showroon type windows in his garden.
  • JooliganJooligan ✭✭✭
    edited December 2021
    My first car was a 1976 Austin Maxi - the first 5 speed production car apparently. 
    My dad had a few Austin Rover company cars in the eighties: a Princess then the brand new Van den Plas Maestro with on board computer which spoke to you!
    Anyway back to the running.
    Busy weekend for me.
    I ventured to Berkeley Green parkrun en route to Brizzle for a night out. 
    An uninspiring 3 lap course round the Car parks & some old buildings with 2 dead turns per lap. Managed 4th place in 19:38, my fastest time since June & highest WAVA of the year. I’d broken in a new pair of Takumi Sen 5s at the parkrun. I bought them over 2 years ago. Didn’t try them out straight away as my race form was appallingly bad so I was waiting til the training began to pay dividends but we all know what happened next. Verdict: I’d use them on Sunday.
    35K bike ride as a cool down, bite to eat & down to my mates for coffee & a catch-up before heading out for the night.
    A couple of pints apiece of Cider & Stout in Bristol then a 4K walk home wasn’t textbook race prep but wth. Last minute entry thanks to Spoons donating his so no pressure.
    Up at 7:30 & straight into the car for the 2hr drive to Telford for my 3rd crack at the UK’s fastest 10K
    Very leisurely 4K warm-up watching the elite Men confirmed 2 things: legs felt good 👍 & it was gonna be surprisingly 🥵 so back to the car to drop off all the extra layers/gloves & don the race vest n shoes. Time for a few strides & then I lined up at the very back as I was still doubtful I’d break 40 minutes.
    1st K in 3:45 without pushing thanks to the helpful hill then a string of 3:5x til 5K in 19:27! Hang on! That’s quicker than any parkrun this year. Have I gone out too fast after all? It should assure me a sub 40 so long as I don’t blow it now. I resolve to cruise the next 3K then push for home in the final 2K. 
    The 6th K has the slight climb which you always feel 2nd time round so a 4:01 didn’t worry me unduly especially as you get the payback at the start of the 7th which was a 3:58. 8th K includes a slight drop to the turn cone & consequently has a slight incline. It’s only 5m over 300m but by that stage it really hurts as you try to accelerate back up to speed & it told as I clocked 4:05 here. I was still feeling good & was now confident of achieving my first sub40 as an MV50. I upped the effort slightly & reeled a few slowing runners in. 9th K in 3:54 & a final push for home gave me 39:25 on the watch which was later confirmed.
    Ridiculously high standard: 431st (of 1061), 19th MV50 (of 86) & my highest 10K WAVA ever (77.63%) 😎
  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭
    TR, my brother is the car nut in my family. I drive a Jazz for reasons that it does everything required. Despite the XR I don't have any enthusiasm for speed. Running (when I ran) and cycling is enough of a thrill for me.

    Here's one of my brothers old cars. He only kept it for a month as it got him a bit too much attention. No idea why that would be 🙄

    It was kept in one of my lock-up's. I only sat in it the once. I didn't drive it, or want to. And there was zero chance of me being a passenger with bro being the wheel. He's going to demonstrate what it can do regardless of any passengers wishes. A lot of Petrol-Heads are like that.
    That Capri? We borrowed it from the old man (old! he was 54) on day two and with bro behind the wheel, hit the 'ton' along a minor road 😮

    Your first car was one of these, Jools!
    Wow! I'm impressed.

    My dad had two of these before the Capri and I attempted to learn to drive in one of them. I failed due to the inherent difficulty of handling the beast. You are clearly made of much tougher material.

    Great running and racing btw. Your ability to cover such volume and intensity is quite remarkable.

    As for me?

    Been off the running for 18 months. On the bike? Over 10,000 km's distance and 100,000m of climbing for the second year. Indoor bike adds up to over 800 hours this year. Rode over 100 miles on a dozen occasions.

    Discovered during one of my checks that my haematocrit level was only 38 and my iron levels super low. Exercise induced anaemia apparently. Put on the tablets and the haematocrit level is now 47+
    Power on the bike has increased 15-20%. Hills I had to stop on a year back, I can now ride up without due effort. I might start running again on this basis.

    One big crash, two broken ribs and a fractured scapular. Visits to A&E zero. 

    The injuries were discovered during a CAT scan on the tumour growing cheerfully on my pancreas. I've got a condition called MEN1. Born with it. Average life expectancy is 55 years so at 61, I'm on extra's. 

    Anyway, I go under the knife next month. I could lose both the pancreas and the spleen. That'll be six days in hospital at least.

    Something to do 🙂
  • Jools - that's a brilliant run mate, off what I'd say was sub-optimal prep! Set it up the day before with the brisk parkrun, went out hard and hung on very nicely. Really impressive. I'd like to give that course a crack.

    Turnout of my own to report on, one of the Dorney Lake 10kms run by the Race Organiser mob. Hadn't done a 10 for a long time, with the PB standing at 35:41, quite ludicrously around 6 years ago, but I've actually been through 10km in a half marathon in very low 35's twice, so I knew this was a soft PB (if there is such thing!).

    However, it's been a crap year, I've run nowhere near the amount I have in the past due to injury, and I've only just properly got back into the swing of things in the last 6 weeks, not really logging any sessions faster than 'tempo' pace. So expectations aren't high, maybe a low 36 if I'm lucky and build from there.

    Added logistics of now having a dog means we have to leave 45 minutes earlier than we normally would to traipse around Dorney Common in the dark throwing a ball to make sure he get's a good walk before we race. Didn't see any other runners out there oddly. 

    From there we're only 5 mins from the lake, and we're there at 8, giving us an hour before the start to get the number, faff and warm up. It's a ludicrous 12 degrees and nothing more than shorts and a vest required - I'm sweating in the warm up. 

    5km, 10km and half all starting at 9am, so I'm on the line peering at the colour of people's numbers to see who I'm actually racing against. Actually looks like most are doing the half, with a few serious looking chaps also in the 5km. I do spot a slightly older guy in a Reading vest, who I foolish write off immediately as he doesn't 'look' like he's got the minerals.

    We're away shortly after 9, with three in the 5km haring off up the road (guy that won ran 15:18), as well as three fast guys in the half moving very well. Early on it appears my only competition is the Reading guy, which isn't great news for me as I'd much rather have a couple of people to run with or chase.

    It strings out immediately, and it's obvious from 1km that I'm running the next 9km solo, with the Reading chap edging away ahead into the distance. Pre-race plans of nothing quicker than 3:30 are ruined immediately with a 3:21 flashing up on the watch. 

    Going to go with it and see what happens, but check it slightly and seemingly fall into 3:30s (3:31, 3:31, 3:32). 4km in and it's already hurting a lot, but I've set my stall out now, que sera and all that. Over the red bridge towards the finish line and the start of lap 2. I'm through 5km in 17:20! Ridiculous. Surely I'm going to pay for that. (Just had a quick look - that's my fastest 5km since 2016 as well!)

    Reading guy is nearly out of sight and no way I'm catching him (he went on to run 33:57), it's just a case of ticking off a kilometre at a time. In my head, I've written off sub 35, as I'm sure I'll significantly slow, and just want to not eat into the buffer and hold on for a PB.

    Another 3:29 before the hurt starts to kick in for a real and I log a 3:35 and 3:34. I've reach the top of the lake and all it is now is the desperate dash for home. Remember thinking at some point in my scrambled brain that I can't have any terrible splits as I'll have SG judging me in the run report.

    Really could do with someone to chase right now but instead I'm slightly weaving through the half marathon backmarkers, one group in particular that are spread 6 wide across the path. FFS.

    9th km is 3:33, but the heads gone and I haven't even thought about the fact that I could duck under 35 - I'm just willing it all to be over. Over the last bridge and turn for home and a very slight downhill section. One look at the watch - fudge, it's going to be oh so close to 35. Over the line and into an absolute heap on the floor, retching, all sorts.

    Final km is 3:26 and I've got 35:00 on the watch! The guy on the PA is then announcing the podium and he reads me out as 35:00 - I swear loudly. However, he then comes over and tells me it's 34:58 chip time! Oh you beauty. Finished minutes clear of the guy in 3rd.

    Zero time for celebrations as I know Katie won't be far behind, and she's gone and monstered around in 37:58 - massive PB and 6th overall. Very happy household.

    Things obviously moving in the right direction then. May have another crack at a fast parkrun this Saturday - see how close I can get to 17..
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    Superb racing from Jools and Joe, over what seems a very quiet weekend on the thread otherwise.

    See what you can do when you're not multi racing / silly elevation-ing Jools! :D 
    I assume those figures you supplied were just from the heat you did, meaning the other race had an even more bonkers set of finishing stats?

    Joe, a superb effort too. Especially when Dorney can be windy, and especially when the standard around you can be a bit bootleg, especially in a triple distance split up job.

    See any cows prowling around the Common? I was quite perturbed when I drove through there once that there's nothing stopping them wandering across the roads, or loitering just inches away.
    The below apparently being a common scenario!

    Cattle on Dorney Common Buckinghamshire stop traffic Editorial Stock Photo  - Stock Image  Shutterstock

    ps did chuckle at the idea I'd be sitting there prowling through the stats barking at such a let up :D 
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    As the mood for race turnouts is upon us, I best get my own cheeky one in.

    Reading XC - Woodley, TVXC series. 
    I'd weasled out of the last couple on the promise of doing this one, so was a little alarmed that after Tuesday's monster, tempo, lunchtime run, Wycombe evening game in the cold, that I'd entered that dreaded "run down" mode. A bit coughy, a bit sneezy.
    Banged a couple of covid tests - clear, so that's all good.

    Left Friday as a single 5, and Sat off, and hoped a couple of sleeps would do it.

    Checked in on the Sunday, seeing if we had a decent enough team for me to pull out, but by typical sod's law, circumstances had dictated that we had about 4 or 5 out, meaning while we'd still have 3 who could probably come top 4 or 5, 6th counter might dip deep into 50/60 territory and lose us the match.

    Therefore, the classic "take one for the team", thinking I was just about ok enough to have a  steady one round, and come above our 7th or so runner's flat out run! Or at least drop out if overtaken / started feeling horrific.

    Wondered if Reggie might be there, but knew it was his birthday so thought that might not help (Happy bidet!).
    Being Reading's home venue meant their inevitable mass turn out, so it was always going to be a 50-50 battle with them.

    So having had the team manager implore me to go, I had to, and it was a close-ish drive, 40mins or so.

    Have done this one 3 times before, one incredible effort, one of those rare ones you just take off mid race and start monstering past people you shouldn't. One average one. And one stinker, 2 months after vertigo wiped me to a zero.

    Was pretty sure it wouldn't be competing with the first one this time!!
  • RicF said:
    The injuries were discovered during a CAT scan on the tumour growing cheerfully on my pancreas. I've got a condition called MEN1. Born with it. Average life expectancy is 55 years so at 61, I'm on extra's. 

    Anyway, I go under the knife next month. I could lose both the pancreas and the spleen. That'll be six days in hospital at least.

    Something to do 🙂
    That's a bit of a bummer! Just goes to show how unfair this ballot they call life is. You work hard and are as fit as the proverbial butcher's dog and you are dealt that and other overweight buggers (is that the right PC term nowadays, you can't say fatso any longer I'm told?) tock along untouched. 
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2021
    Arrived and manager was pleased to see me at least.

    Got to the team huddle, and our super vet, 58 year old was there, unexpectedly!
    It meant I hadn't needed to come along, dammit!!

    Even half fit this guy will be decently high up.

    Oh well. 
    One mile warm up, feeling like absolute death I can tell you. Dripping with sweat, on a strangely warm mid December morning.

    Traipsed back to the start a little worried, but I'd issued enough disclaimers about "easing in" by now to make sure everyone's expectations were low :)

    The start was a bit of a mad free for all, quietest woman ever started things off, on a wide curved bend, and we were off.

    I'm quickly behind one of our guys I'd never lose to. And also behind our 2nd fastest woman.
    However, the effort level I'm at feels comfy if nothing else!!

    Tiny little pointless loop, then off on the main course. Ahead of a few early blaggers, and just behind the clubmate man.

    I can see one of our younguns miles ahead, who is a fair few steps down the class scale. He's either improved massively, thinks it's a 2mile race, or has a harsh lesson to learn later!

    Get ahead of my clubmate a mile or so in and I'm going steadily, and it feels alright.

    The course is reasonable grass with a few small rolling up and downs and a few muddy patches for just over 2miles, then just over half a mile in the woods and back.

    I get into a gang with the first woman, an old pal from Marlow, an old pal from Wargrave, a Windle guy and a couple of Burnhams.
    We do a few ins and outs for a mile, but I know deep down I should be beating all this mob.

    Oddly, one sharp move round a bend, and the lot were dropped in one go. Bizarre.

    I still haven't seen the young club mate come back, so wonder what's going on, as I'm a mere 8th in the club, let alone where I am in the field!

    In and out of the woods felt a nice distraction, then onto the 2nd lap.

    Here's the youngun. Coming back as hard as you've ever seen someone come back!
    I encourage him as I go past, saying to "cling on" as i'm "Not going much faster".

    2metres on I realise that isn't true, as he's dropping off an absolute cliff!!

    On we go then. Same again until the woods, overtaking a few, feeling like I'm barely working, yet wouldn't want to go faster to say the least!

    Have caught a Reading guy and a Marlow guy up, but into the woods I have to admit feeling like this I don't have the heart for a late grab. Am certain if I'd been 100% it wouldn't have even been a debate, I'd have just been clear.

    Anyway, started thinking, Oh no, the manager will be on the last 200m, see me just behind and not realise the effort was catching them from miles back :)

    However, happy to get over 26th, 7th scorer so not technically in the 6, but knock a few other teams 6 down I suppose.

    Finished, relieved, and lay down for about 8mins!
    Glad to have made the effort for the team

    Think we ended 2nd men's team, by 1 place!
    Luckily not the 1 place I didn't make up on their man :D 
    But we had 2,3,4, and they just had more mid teens.

    Won the event overall though, both genders included.

    Had my 3rd jab today, so between the race, seeing the end of this feeling off, and the jab, I'm definitely feeling comfy to have 2-3 days off if needs be!
  • Stevie G said:

    However, happy to get over 26th, 7th scorer so not technically in the 6, but knock a few other teams 6 down I suppose.

    Good run when you weren't feeling that well early that day. It is always good to get a few of those under your belt so when a big one comes up and you are feeling a tad under the weather you can get a positive mental attitude. 

    You missed out the string of FB messages sent early in the morning ;) 

    Yes, you added 3, 4, 5 or 6 points to the 3rd and lower teams but had absolutely no impact at all on the outcome of the match. Not being negative, just reiterating my comment from a month or so ago. 

  • Reg WandReg Wand ✭✭✭
    edited December 2021
    Some cracking racing this weekend. Well done on the sub 40 Jools that's a great time.

    I could easily have been at either of SGs or Joe's races as it was a toss up between those two before I ended up doing neither. In hindsight the 10k at Dorney would have been the pick as I am not a huge fan of the Reading course and I can run around that field anytime from home. Well done on the sub 35 Joe, as you say it was a soft PB but it's a good stake in the ground as I am sure you've been in at least 34:30 shape in the past. Well done to Katie too, fabulous time.

    Looks like the Reading RR (JG) chap 's form has fluctuated in the XC, that's a win in race one, then finishing behind me followed by another win! Nice turnout from you SG, sounds like you could have dug out a few more places. I ruled the XC out after I had a slight hamstring strain midweek.

    So thanks for the Birthday wishes SG and my treat to myself was 3 hours on the gravel bike, I actually went very close to Dorney having visited WGP, then Datchet before riding the Jubilee river path back to Maidenhead and then onto Marlow via Cookham. Loved it on a mild day. Sat down and watched the European cross country afterwards and that got the motivation going nicely.

    Managed just over 40 miles last week with two rest days enforced due tot he hammy so pretty pleased to get that much done. Started this week with an easy 9 at lunch today which came out @ 6:58 pace. Pretty happy with that, 950 beats per mile is the lowest I've ever seen so I think fitness is building nicely. Just need to try and get all the niggles sorted.

    Hope the procedures go well Ric, sounds like an ordeal. My car history is as boring as you'd expect from a runner and I am only on my third car  :D 

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