Moraghan Training - Stevie G

1179617971799180118021832

Comments

  • SorequadsSorequads ✭✭✭

    I find the mindset for track vs usual roads is quite different as well, SG. I certainly get up for it a lot imore on the red stuff. Don’t get me started on the pacer at Wokey a coupe of years ago.

    Good point of periodisation including rest, PMJ. I think I am reasonable at having periods of higher and lower intensity, but not great at actually scheduling rest. Your pacing strategy was wise – so many don’t do so for the course. I guess in part is that if you are a lot faster than a certain speed, it potentially all feels easy.

    Reg I agree – one of the main benefits of a pacer is the group, drafting aspect, which I guess could be formed more casually.

    Like the sounds of that session, Bradders, and look for to a post-race report.

    Nice to see a return of a Jools double track day.

    4% certainly feel very different to Adios, SC.

    An attempt at intervals on Tuesday: 1 x 1M, 2 x 0.75M, 3 x 0.5M, all on the tarmac cycle/footpath next to the river in Worcester. Pretty slow – 6:10 – 6:20 pace, but the effort was there, so mustn’t grumble. 10M at 7:35 average all in.

    Then backed up the following day with this week’s long run. An hour out on the canal before turning around. Lovely surfaces on the whole, until a mile and half of mud in the latter stages. Felt surprisingly good given the intervals the day before. Started to roll a few lower 7s towards the end and averaged 7:35 for the 16M.

     


  • SCoombes2SCoombes2 ✭✭✭
    @PhilipMJones pretty sure the Reading hill (the last one) is nearer to the town centre, about 9-10 miles? It did seem a pretty good run in tbh, pretty flat last 3 miles. Although it was 2015, so a while ago now.

    SG - Not sure about how long the Adios 5's have lasted. I suspect the Lightstrike foam forefoot is not as long lasting as boost. I have to go on Strava and crop my 'run' yesterday when I left the watch going on the train, so will check the mileage.
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    Did you hoover up half the town's segs on the train SC? :)
    And you're right on the Reading later hill, but I'd read Phil's comment as the slog around 10/11 being the fact the last few miles are a miserable bleak dual carriage way run in.

    Reg - you have big hopes for Wokey then!
    And yes, you don't expect a pacer as the paces get quicker for certain. Sub 1hr 15 is a bit bizarre!

    My Wokey pb benefitted from getting into a decent group at whatever stage it was, but I'm pretty sure I couldn't have squeezed 42 seconds more out following a pacer, as I was always whopping a fair sum off that day.

    Enjoyed the rest of the day off from the morning single. Will probably do a couple of shorties tomorrow, then have my first day off for 2 weeks Saturday, then weigh up XC v a long run Sunday.
  • SCoombes2 said:
    @PhilipMJones pretty sure the Reading hill (the last one) is nearer to the town centre, about 9-10 miles? It did seem a pretty good run in tbh, pretty flat last 3 miles. Although it was 2015, so a while ago now.
    Courses always seem a lot different when you are racing them and mindset plays as much a role as the real profile. I swear the motorway bridge towards the end of Wokingham is a mountain.
  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭
    I imagine it helps being a pacer if you have a built in metronome like yourself Philip :smiley:

    I followed, and chatted with, the 1:20 pacer at Wokingham in 2020, but it soon became apparent that was a pretty forlorn hope that day!

    Bloody hamstring niggle has come back - sore yesterday, but had to abandon completely after half a mile today in hope of living to fight another day. Happy 2022 - grrr!
  • SorequadsSorequads ✭✭✭
    SCoombes2 said:
    @PhilipMJones pretty sure the Reading hill (the last one) is nearer to the town centre, about 9-10 miles? It did seem a pretty good run in tbh, pretty flat last 3 miles. Although it was 2015, so a while ago now.
    Courses always seem a lot different when you are racing them and mindset plays as much a role as the real profile. I swear the motorway bridge towards the end of Wokingham is a mountain.
    It absolutely is a mountain on the way back.
  • SorequadsSorequads ✭✭✭
    Sorry to hear about the hamstring regrumbling, Bus  :(

    And SC/SG, I have always got good mileage from Adios 1 through to 4, circa 500M. Although noticeably less than the standard 7-800 on say NB1080 or Pegasus. Only about 200M into my Adios 5. 
  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭
    Thanks SQ. The other about that bridge is the ten mile mark comes just as you start to climb it. Given that I have previously tried to hit that at bang on an hour for a 1.19 ish half, it’s easy to get over lactate threshold trying and vomit on the bridge 😊
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 13
    You don't really notice the slight down as you lead off at Wokingham, or particularly feel like you're benefitting from the down of the bridge and you're fresh too.
    But the last 5k of half marathons is always where it kicks in anyway, so it's no surprise that bridge (there's 2 climbs aren't there?) always saps you a bit.

    Then you can hear the announcements when still half a mile away.
    Not as cruel as the old Wycombe half of course, hearing that from a mile away!
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    Some cold mornings at the mo. Tue was surprisingly warm and allowed me to get that session off nicely. In fact I switched down to a vest after the warm up!

    Last few days have been 2 layers including a slightly thermal vest, thicker gloves and didn't warm up throughout. Very unusual for me as I usually feel the warmth, so it must be pretty cold.
  • Reg WandReg Wand ✭✭✭
    Stevie G said:


    Reg - you have big hopes for Wokey then!
    And yes, you don't expect a pacer as the paces get quicker for certain. Sub 1hr 15 is a bit bizarre!


    I'm just going by the numbers, pace against HR in training runs tells me I am running 5:40 pace at below HM effort at the moment. How that works out after beyond 30-40 minutes is to be discovered but I won't miss it because I set out too slow  :D

    I am can attest for the motorway bridge pain having set out a bit too fast some years! You can get a bit carried away with that downhill start :-)

    Sorry to hear about the continued hammy issues, Bus. 
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 14
    You''ve beaten a guy at one of the cross countries who put in a 75.41 HM (i remember it as bizarrely that's my exact pb to the second!).
    But then in previous years he's often pretty close at XC to guys who can go a couple of mins quicker. I used to take real encouragement from seeing who i'd got near to or beaten in XC races and then seen their much better pbs. (I dare say it's the other way round now, losing to someone and see their pb and it's not flattering :D )

    You're a bit of an XC specialist on top. Plus it's much shorter at 5.5-6miles.

    So there's an intriguing set of situations there, but you've definitely not maximised HM to say the least, often due to injuries, so it's can you put a strong 5 weeks or so in now, no niggles and see if you get the chance to smash it.
  • Reg WandReg Wand ✭✭✭
    I think that's a fair summary. I'd like to put in a longer tempo (40 minutes) to see how I feel at the end of that, if the heart rate hasn't drifted up then I'll be happy that I have the endurance to see it through.
  • Stevie G said:

    But the last 5k of half marathons is always where it kicks in anyway
    When I was faster, my training was pretty much up to an hour but not beyond, so half marathons were very much about getting to 10 miles as much inside the hour as possible and then trying to stop it falling to pieces over the remainder. 

    I sort of assumed that SG, who regularly runs 13 and 15 on Sunday, wouldn't have the exact same issue but it is probably a simple fact of life that you get tired towards the end of a race. 
  • SCoombes2SCoombes2 ✭✭✭
    I always found the 8-10 miles of a half the hardest. I could always 'get stuck in' in the last 5k once I had got over that bit.

    Bugger about the hammy Bus..Grr.

    SQ - No surprised about the change in Adios. Boost looked longer lasting than the lightstrike foam. The new Takumi Sen (with lightstrike Pro foam and energy rods) are getting great reviews too.

    Good luck if anyone doing XC this weekend. I'm off to Mitcham Common for the Surrey league.
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 14
    Phil, most of the year it's only really 13s. The occasional 13.5/14, but not that often above 13.

    I have tried a few different approaches over the years. Moz got me decent results both with a number of 16milers and capping at about 13 but doing harder finishes to them.

    2018 I'd got into some cracking shape off my own format, where I did a 15miler on a Thursday about 6 weeks in a row and raced XC a lot of the weekends. That went really well. A pretty flat route from my Slough office to the Dashers clubhouse and back and tended to come out low 7s or just under.

    But yes, either way in a HM, I think it's always felt quite hard that last 5k.
    Except for one mad time at Reading half where I was feeling it in the zone Simon describes, then took on a simple drink of water from the support station and felt really turbo charged and blew the people I'd been around away.
    That was my 2nd quickest one I think, 1.17.03 possibly?
  • SorequadsSorequads ✭✭✭

    Good luck for the XC, SC.

    Was it definitely water, SG?! Whilst the half definitely requires more speed training than a marathon, but best result did come whilst marathon training (probably true of most of my PBs now I think about it).

    We must have been quite close at the start of Wokey 2020, Bus. I can remember chatting to the pacer and expressing my surprise at the first mile in something like 5:50.  

    10M out and back on the icy canal today. Slippery in some places, but mostly a lovely gravel path to cruise along. Beautiful frost and ice on the water. 7:45 average which included 12 x 20s strides on the return. 4M recovery this afternoon. SLOW. 9:20 pace. Happy Friday everyone.


  • SCoombes2 said:
    I always found the 8-10 miles of a half the hardest. I could always 'get stuck in' in the last 5k once I had got over that bit.
    That's the theory behind the negative split, so when you know the end is in sight you can give it your all over the last bit. 

    All my PBs were pretty much go out hard and hang on for dear life. It definitely helps when you have a motivation for the last bit, so my 10k I remember I was ahead of a clubmate who usually beat me and everyone was shouting out his name (Silverstone has a long final straight) and I dared not look around.
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    SQ I did wonder if some cheeky kid had whacked some speed in there or something :D 

    I'm like Phil, I got out hard, but not "too" hard, and banked the time, and that mentally encouraged you to keep pushing to the finish. The Moz style of training also gave you confidence with the zones too, so you knew you'd worked those zones in training so could handle them in races.

    I think Hatfield has been the only race since the pandemic I've had in years to that proper hard "racing". 

    Will have a turnout at XC on Sunday, feeling a lot better than the last one! So will see how that goes.
  • 1:30:57 - still a PB by about 2 mins 30 seconds but didn’t have it in the last 4/5 miles! Will write more detail after!
  • Reg WandReg Wand ✭✭✭
    Well done Bradders, that's a big PB, no doubt it's in sight for next time now.

    Easy 14 for me today, 48 for the week which gets me back on track after a few fallow weeks.


  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 16
    Good work Bradders, definitely get a report up to enliven the usual Monday post race come down!

    Reg - you'd have had a shot at a win at Bracknell XC today as Lee was injured, and Rob F came 3rd but was covid affected.
    Think Rob B who won had a bit of a cough too, but not enough to stop the win of course!
    A 1hr 12 half guy, from Windle had a mess about changing shoes too so he wasn't in the reckoning either.

    Will get the report up...in a bit.
  • alehousealehouse ✭✭✭
    Nice work Bradders! More to come! As it was 13+ miles SG will expect at least 13 paragraphs plus a long introduction about the journey and parking.

    Looking forward to your report also, SG!

    Ticking over at just over 30 k a week. At least I am being consistently consistent. Need to make that progressive.
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 16
    Bracknell XC then, over at Lightwater County Park.
    For some reason I thought this was the old Tadley-esque in being an hour, but a googling last week suggested more like 40mins.

    Easy 2mile drive, M40, M25, M3 right to the Park.
    Couldn't go wrong...or could it :open_mouth:


    Probably wasn't concentrating fully enough when the sat nav barked "Take the Watford exit", when the M25 roads split, so having gone that way to Ricky, off that way I went.

    Sat Nav jumps from 20miles to 30, putting the time to go back to what it was when it started :D. Oh blimming heck, we're doing it again:dizzy:

    Rectified that, then was approaching the M3. Sat nav has frozen hasn't it, just as I was coming to the fork in the routes.
    Suddenly totally forgot any sort of geography, panicked slightly when seeing "Southampton" on one route, so went the other way :blush:  

    Realised quickly I was burgling this a treat, but on a positive thought it'd make for a chuckle on the thread later.

    Luckily it wasn't one of those massive stretches to the next turnoff, so stopped in some road in Staines (!) googled how to reboot the sat nav, programmed the phone as back up, and off we went the right way again!

    All the time thinking of Pete's advice of get there before 10 to easily park in the right set of parking available.
    Sat nav says 10.20 grrrr.

    Annnyyway, bowled up at the venue, drove in watching loads of people park on roads outside, but still through i'd wheel in.
    Into an overflow, didn't fancy the woody type ground, back out.

    Discovered there's tonnes of residential roads just outside, easily done, and wonder did anyone follow their guide of parking over the bridge the other side of the M3 and walk miles in :D 

    Found Rob F who had been ill, and walked in with him and family for 30mins before the start - plenty - phew
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    Quick 1mile warmup with a couple of our young lads down to the River and then make sure to know the finish part - which came in very useful later.
    However, as a 2 lapper, you'd see it once round anyway.

    So a 2 lapper, with one short section off that course to bring you into the 1st lap, and then the exact same loop twice.

    The course has about 5mins of trail, woods and mud, a couple of ups and downs before finding the first major feature of the course.
    Namely a 65 feet climb over half a mile. It doesn't look or sound particularly steep, but the end bit is a single file trudge job that definitely saps, and you almost stumble onto the flat hard packed trail after.
    Then there's a long downhill for a mile or so, first on hard trail, with a left hand bend through mud that always catches people out.
    Down a bit further and then a couple of ups and downs until about 2miles, where you're greeted by some single track with bushes either side, dodging randomly placed rocks in the middle of the path that could be lethal if you're too close behind someone.

    Marshals warn about this luckily.
    This leads to a very steep but short grassy mound, which is trudge number 2, almost dead stop at the top on hard ground, and then through a little undulating woods section in mud, and then more hard ground past the lake.
    You then have about 300m or so gently inclining to the start of lap 2.
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 16
    I'd set off moderately, and suspect I can pick a few off lap 2. 
    Felt decent this week, unlike the Reading course I felt a bit of an under the weather wreck on.

    However, I'm probably no higher here than there early knockings.

    I'm quickly into 6th position in the team, but know there's 2 behind me who could easily knock me out of the scorers for my gang. However, neither are are full capacity so you never know.

    Hitting the top of the hill is always the best feel on this course, and embracing the down and narrow hard running sections.

    From about 1mile I know our 58 year old supervet is on my tail. He stays that way for about 3miles, despite me offering many a thumbs up and offering to go past.

    Late lap 1 I find myself for some reason chatting to one of the Reading guys as we go past the packed finish for the first time. He tells me it's hard not being as good as you used to be, so I think I'll check who is he later... But i say I need to be 100m behind or in front second lap as no-one wants a sprint finish with 100s watching :D  

    Our supervet is behind and I just know he'll be shaking his head at such casual jabber mid race!

    I am expecting him to come past at any time, but it's as late as 70% through lap 2 he does it.
    Waits until I'm at the top of the grassy bank, withered with someone else, then storms past.

    I suspect that's it as he storms 50metres on, as he's a track and XC specialist, an old school proper runner with tactics and all that.

    But amazingly he's suddenly about 2m ahead as a sticky patch of mud has stalled him and another guy.

    I keep just behind, but my head is thinking, don't worry about him, look at Reading. Have already passed one, passed a Bracknell guy who is limping and cursing heavily, and have passed a Marlow guy and a Wargrave guy. A profitable last 1mile this is turning out to be.

    A Sheen guy is next up and I always wonder how this guy is so high up, as it's the second time I've cruised past him late on. Clearly an out very hard and hold on merchant.

    Just a couple of twists and turns before the run in, and Reading and our vet are ahead.
    I get round the bend and the head says "DO IT", so pile in a colossal sprint, and take them both by surprise.

    A risky one bearing in mind the vet, although 58 is a national vet champ for track stuff, could shatter everyone on this thread bar none for track times and reps quicker than all of us could sprint too, but I'm doing it for the Reading scalp as much as own team mate as that's what we're trying to do here, beat Reading!

    I'm half thinking about what's behind, but then notice another Reading guy - ironically the one I'd been chatting to a lap before, and it's the exact scenario I was hoping to avoid - a mad dash to the finish late doors.

    I piled past, then remembered the finish is round a bend out of sight, and was really hoping it was as close as Rob F had said earlier!

    PHEW it is, and over the line for 20th, having taken about 7 or 8 places in the last mile. Beautiful.

    6 in the first 20, and Reading only had 2, so sealed the mens' and overall titles, and we can all rest easy and not have to do the Handy Cross slog last race!!!

    The results always look so close after, and I note I was only 9seconds off the young Dasher 1 place ahead and only 14seconds off another rival, but in truth XC that's plenty isn't it.

    Having said that, I put 16secs into our vet in the last 400m, so you can definitely make up a fair few places if you save a bit late knockings.
    Could feel his fury, but embraced his back handed compliment that I carried on well today as I "normally give up" apparently.... now I'm pretty sure everyone on this thread would attest to one thing I do not do is give up :)

    Looked up who the Reading chap was and he's an ex 2.27 marathon guy, who I believe has posted on this thread before. Clearly working his way back up, but XC is a leveller.
    A guy came 9th, over a min ahead of me and was way behind at the Marlow 7 in November.

    It's a real leveller, and especially on this sort of course, which is a very slow course.
    I'm averaging 6.51 (!) and 3rd averaged 6.30 ish, and he's a 26:30 5miler!
    There were 2 miles over 7 pace on there too, madness!

    But a decent trip out, and that's 4 turnouts for the year already, but time needs to turn to the road now. I need to book me a few races before they sell out.
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    alehouse said:
    Nice work Bradders! More to come! As it was 13+ miles SG will expect at least 13 paragraphs plus a long introduction about the journey and parking.

    Looking forward to your report also, SG!

    Ticking over at just over 30 k a week. At least I am being consistently consistent. Need to make that progressive.
    You knew what was coming!!! Longest ever version of both!!
  • alehousealehouse ✭✭✭
    Well done, SG! On getting there I mean! 
    I imagine the Reading runner is TT  i.e. TippTop who is on a comeback, again, and largely posts on the sub 3 thread these days. A very good runner in his time: he posted that he was over three minutes down on the last time he ran today's course. 
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    Yep, that's it Aley.
    Quality for sure, and in my furlough summer, spicing things up doing segments, I came across a couple in Wycombe that looked sharp, but doable if I wanted to do a 0.6-0.75m one working hard...

    Then noticed he held them from within a half marathon race!!

    Now that's different class.
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    *(3 turnouts in 2022 so far, not 4!)
Sign In or Register to comment.