Howdy, Stranger!
Categories
Moraghan Training - Stevie G
The materials in this website are in no way intended to replace the professional medical care, advice, diagnosis or treatment of a doctor, qualified personal trainer, therapist, dietitian or nutritionist Runners's World, Part of the Hearst UK well-being network © Copyright 2017
Comments
I agree that it is not black and white, more shades of grey, but you have to know where you are in the shade and avoid going to far into it. As an example, the marathon training was outside my comfort zone but it has given me a great endurance base and I will most likely do the training again and even race a few more (but actually I plan on doing the training and skipping the race next year) but it would be nonsense for me to try an ultra. The same applies to the shorter distances: I think 5k is my lower limit but 3k works out sort of OK, but 1,500 is an oddity. I did one a few years ago in 5:16 which is 68% age graded. Same for 400mH and chase but those are doen for the team.
forgot to mention Emma Jackson was down the track last night. Fantastic style and speed. she should be our #1 for 800m at the olympics. The difference between the elite and us was blindingly obvious watching her sprint 400m endlessly at an obscene pace. She has been down the track most weeks but first time i have seen her all guns blazing.
glad i was just finishing as she started.
14 very hot miles at lunchtime in 1:44, 7:24 pace. Last year, it took me from May 8th until June 23rd to do my 14 mile route, this year April 22nd to May 23rd.
Phil, even though it's an improvement, you should be looking to cover 14 miles in substantially less than 31 days at your level.
Lol!
Funnily enough, I quite like the masochism of training in the heat, even though I hate racing when its hot! Nice easy trail run home for me tonight. Length will be determined by how my legs feel - they're a bit tired at the moment!
Philip - how are your MT101s holding up? My second pair are completely disintegrating after about 230 miles! I blame the wet to some extent....
I have raced 4 or 5 times in them and one 15 miler so maybe 40 miles: still almost brand new.
good talk on track sessions, not convinced theres any reason to run 400's faster than the longer intervals though. The main purpose of interval training is to stress you V02 max which I think is a specific pace at which you are consuming the maximium amount of oxygen your body can use before anaerobic energy (and lactic!) production takes place. To stress your VO2 max you need to spend time running at this place, which is between 3000 and 500m pace. Shorter intervals should be done with shorter recoveries rather than a faster pace so Vo2 max is resumed quickly and time is spent at the correct pace.
Faster running is simply speed repetition work, which is a different type of training altogether, useful for developing good running economy , good anaerobic energy production, etc.
not that any of this technical malarkey is helping me , I had a terrible, painful, crap 6 mile road race last night. my legs were destroyed from not having enough rest and basically would not comply. I just wanted to quit and stop running but I've never stopped before, so didnt and just dragged myself to the finish line. been very disappointed all last night and today.
something like 35:40 with splits of 5:33, 5:47, 5:52, 5:58, 6:10 and 6:10
going to have a day or two off and a little easy run before a 3000SC on Sunday and hilly 5 mile road race next wednesday. now I've started this bleeding EMGP series I cant miss the races as Im going to make the series prizes
Don't worry about it Seb - you can't be on top of your game all the time, so just look at it as a tough tempo session (they're still pretty fast splits!), and get some proper recovery in.
Lovely run home tonight. Bloody undergrowth has shot up though! I've got nettle rash all over my legs and was covered in wee beasties stuck to my sweat!
Binned the Mt101s out when I got back - not only were they falling apart, but shredded the socks I was wearing! Can't really complain, they cost peanuts and were made of almost nothing!
A sweaty track session tonite. The scheduled session was steps: 100m fast, 100m slow, 200m fast, 100m slow, 300m fast, 100m slow, 400m fast, 100m slow. 6 sets with 3 mins recovery between each, A bit too 'fiddly' for my liking. Difficult trying to keep track of what I should be doing.
Ended up having a bash at some 400m reps targeting 80secs. Times were a bit all over the place, ranging from 75-95. Felt pretty knackered any way. I'm sure with future discipline & practice my track efforts will start showing some improvements.
Track for me tonight too. 12 x 600 (including 100m fast finish) with 200 recoveries. Generally done between 1:58 and 2:02, with a 2:05 thrown in for good measure. I'd usually aim to do them all quicker than 2:00, but I am not coping very well in the (relative) heat. Bit of a break now before BUPA 10k on Sunday.
Seb, nothing to worry about - you've put in some quality times recently, and this was just an off-day. Take it easy, and remember the recent quick times rather than that specific race.
This thread should be re-named tales from the knackers yard. Actually this sudden heatwave can take you by surprise. Easy to forget to drink enough. I work outdoors and have gone through about a gallon today. Ordinary activity needs a certain amount of fluid. Running needs much more.
🙂
Bus, you could always go for an alternating 60, 90 and aim for the same pace, and then go 60, 60, 90 and so on. Takes longer but maybe a lower injury risk if you transition over a few weeks?
One of my suggestions was to continue aiming for under 80s, maintain the same recoveries, and swap say 16 x 400 with 14 x 500, then 12 x 600, 8 x 800, 6 x 1k, 5 x 1200... you get the idea. I think reducing the cumulative recovery should probably be the aim, but what people tend to do is repeat the same sessions and try to shave a few seconds off each time!
Ric - I've drank loads of water today! It is odd how a few extra degrees means aso much mroe liquid is needed.
Addylad - sounds like a sensible approach. Whilst I lie 400m reps, cos they do go quick, I can't help thinking 800m (or half mile as I do them!) reps are more beneficial for my usual race distance of 10k - half. The added advantage of reducing the recovery time is I can do more reps in the same lunch break I suppose!
to late to right a full race report from Monday, in a but shell, went off hard a'la dean, 3.08, comfortably hard for 2nd k, then made the mistake of easing back through the next 1.5, piled it on from 1.5 out and took 3 guys who went past halfway then had a full on dust up over the last 5m with a club mate, swapped positions 2/3 times and ended in the best sprint Finsh ever! saw 15.5x on the clock and stretched every sinew to try and duck under but saw the dreaded 16 tick over as I could do nothing but scream f*******k!! briefly followed by an apology for said profanity!
Good point made there Addy! I have to confess I'd initially think repeating the same session trying to get faster was how you should do it.
But thinking outside the box a bit, swapping distances around & reducing recovery time is definitely worth the attempt
Ric- I'm a little younger than you & only have 4 yrs running in my legs compared to your 25. Do you think your injuries are caused more by over training or do you think that after '000s of miles run, injuries just become more common?
I've got a running friend, now in his 70s, who in his prime ran a 2:20 mara. He's pretty chilled out about his race times slowing down over the decades, but he said to me that because I came to running late{over 40}, I should be able to keep improving for longer & the rate of decline would be slower.
Would be interested to know what your observations/thoughts are
Hi Luvsa, I'll post when I get back.
🙂
morning all, what a cracking day for an early morning run aswell! just 6m easy down by the river for me today, nice and easy now until this weekends Edinburgh HM, looks like it'll be a hot one again for everyone doing the full!
Rob, Battersea park 10K is indeed flat and fast, also pretty sheltered from the elements, no tight turns and most of the surface has been relaid this year so its even quicker! i'll be there on Aug 4th and thats the one ive got pencilled in for my summer 10K time target, anyone else up for that one?
had a quick read read of SG's antics over on the overhread 'better than talk to fast ugly guys' I hope he wasnt talking about us bunch of lookers!
some great training going on at the moment, this really is the 'Carlsberg' of threads!
Luvsa, i no expert when it comes to age stuff (im a relativly youthfull 35) but i imagine thats based on pretty sound principles, rate of improvement vs slow age related decline should, i'd imagine keep you edging it for a while?
i hope you are right DT2 regards luvsa's question, i am keeping extra attention on my training as i am new to this and having not raced for 20 yrs so i am hoping i dont really have 39yr old legs in the same way that other 39yrs olds who continued running from their 20's have. Of course my base will be nowhere near as good but hopefully i will be more injury free.
agreed everyone is doing monster training at the moment...the thread PB rate is going to move up a notch over the summer i think.
Seb, that 6m time looks good to me....of course you can go faster but it demonstrates a strong base
hopefully the injured west cheshire gents are on the mend as there are definately PBs on standby there
All of us are unique experiments of one so while there are general rules, each of us can have a reasonable deviaiton from that rule. Have a look at e.g. Chris Finill who has ran every London marathon in sub-3, if you want an example of what you can do, why not use that?
I think reasonable general rules that you will improve over 6 to 8 years. If you have run ever since you are young, then by the time you get to 40 you are on the plateau or downhill slope. If you come to runing at 40, you should improve for 6 to 8 years before you reach that plateau. I show both, so when I was 25 I was racing 75 for half, 56 for 10, 34 for 10k. I am now back and improving, but my times are slower than those, and I have to face the fact that in 3 or 4 years time I won't be able to go PB in my A races each year and also however hard I train, I won;t be abel to match my old PBs.
It's interesting whether, having had a long break from running, that earlier running history will count against your potential continued improvement as an older runner. I ran up to turning 18, and then did nothing for 14 years - and by nothing, I mean I did no regular sport or exercise (other than walking) at all. I'm slightly the opposite of PMJ, in that I'm currently running at a level some way beyond what I was capable of as an 18 year old. I've also started my second phase of running earlier than many do, in my earlish/mid 30s, as opposed to late 30s or 40s. But it's difficult to draw any conclusions from those kinds of things, other than that I probably have at least 3-4 years of improvement (albeit much more gradual improvement than the last 6-8 months) to look forward to as long as I keep training and have some luck with injuries.
Right then, I'm back on a break between jobs. Would have posted earlier but my lad was hogging the PC with some revision stuff. He's only doing GCSE's, he clearly has no consideration for the important things in life.
L.Sa. Over training is unlikely since I'm basically lazy but also because I weigh up each days training based on how well I feel compared to the previous day. I spoke to Bus about this at Pednor. In essence, if one day I run say, for one hour, there is the issue of recovery. If 24 hours later I feel as good or better then I'll repeat the training. Conversely, if I feel worse then I'll back track until I hit the 'feeling better than' zone. Sometimes this means backing off to zero other times 12 to 15 miles every day.
My injuries are much less common now, I get maybe one a year and its always due to some trip or fall or banging into something by accident. My right shin/calf sometimes goes because either I clobber it or else under maximum training some old scar tissue; I guess, comes to life, an after effect of whacking my leg on the bumper of my governers silver ghost rolls royce. I remember him telling me to mind his car, I instructed my guardian angel to sort him out. A week later while his brand new Jag XKR was being transported on a truck, it came adrift on a roundabout and was written off. My souces tell me that there was an issue over insurance.
🙂
Remind me not to annoy you then Ric! Do you have voodoo dolls aas well?
Phew - just back from a scorcher of a run! 9M and 1070 feet of rolling Chiltern Hills on very hard packed mud in glorious sunshine at 8MM pace. That's what summer evenings are made for!
Right, tricky choice now - foam rolling, or cold beer in the garden.....hmmm....
Thanks for all the feedback guys!
Last summer it felt a bit like I could do no wrong. Nearly every 10k & half I ran would be quicker than the last. I got to thinking that this upward spike in performance would just keep on going automatically
This year I've yet to run near PB times & I've began to think in my darkest moments that that's it, it's now a case of trying to slow the rate of decline rather than smashing on with even quicker times.
I really hope this current phase is just a lull, otherwise I may have to change my moniker to "LovedaPB" instead.
Impossible for anyone here to annoy me. I might cast an envious eye over the ability of some to nail sub 70 second 400m in training sessions, but then again being self employed means I can do early morning runs before sloping off at around 9.00am, which is a lot better than being forced out at 7.00am with all the attendant hassles that working for someone else can bring.
🙂
Lu.PB. You may be pleased to know that plateaus in performance apart, you could improve for several more years. Go on to Power 10 rankings and dig out Nigel Rackham, improvement unlimited. Well, until he broke his foot that is.
🙂
Luvsa, sometimes you've got to rewind to fast forward (not mine, badly Drawn Boy's!). Upward progression is often followed by a period of stagnation, or sometimes even decline, but then, if you are determined enough, a positive step change can happen again. Sometimes this just takes time, sometimes some form of catalyst for change such as recovering from an injury, but always it needs a re-focus on what you want to achieve. In the timescales you are talking about, it's nothing to do with age - that's a slower, much more insidious decay!
For what its worth, all of my PBs have come in my 40s, and a big part of that has come from the inspiration found through this thread, but even as I move ever closer to my 44th birthday I sure as hell aint done with them yet!
Ric- Those PBs by a 49 yr old are v impressive. I reckon he must have run a bit before 2004 though?
Was the foot injury as a result of running?
Bus- Glad to hear it!