Moraghan Training - Stevie G

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  • been away for the weekend...and what do I find SG's back image good 5k by the sounds of it, especially with the course/conditions.Hope all is well and your back to enjoying some training.

    Nice running Bus & a PB,image

    Doesnt really sound like a nice 5k PMJ, rather you than me. I dont like wet roads races at all. Did you get some track spikes? or wouldnt you wear them for 5k?

    Interesting track session SS,  fast and slower reps combined, good for getting used to pace changing I suppose.

    training for me has consisted of 8mile treadmill Sunday, Track session Mon,Tues 9mile easy.

     Track was 1 min recoveries between reps and 8mins walk/ jog/strides between sets. 4 x 400 @1500 pace (70,70,70,69), 4 x 300 @ 1200pace (51,50,50,49) 4 x [email protected] 800 pace  (32,31,31,27) Felt ok considering not done much race paced work recently.

    got a 10k road race on Sunday (Two castles 10k, 4000 runners!) then Banbury 5 Tuesday night I think. Hope Ill be ok for the 5miler as thats more important to me. then off to Spain for a week, will my garmin work near Barcelona?

  • DeanR7DeanR7 ✭✭✭

    Rob - glad the hams are holding up and you are on the road to recovery. I have decided not to go for the masters in horwich but hope you're there in fine form to defend your trophy.

  • Dean not doing horwich either too soon after missing 2 weeks will probably try and do masters 10k in October instead will decide once back in proper training
  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭

    Seb, your Garmin will work fine - you might just need to answer "yes" to the "have you moved hundreds of miles since last on?" question! Depending on what you've set the time zone as, you may need to alter that.

    Rob - glad to hear the hamstring seems to be OK - fingers crossed!

    Pjilip - doesn't sound like a very pleasant race last night. mind you, probably still better than watching Hoe Alone with the kids like I did!

    Just back from a long road run. I'm pleased with the pace as it was 15M at 6:48 pace, which is my fastest training pace for that distance. I wanted to do as flat a run as I can round here, so arranged to meet the Mrs with the car iin town as she was there anyway, to save the big hill back up to my place .  Although that made it net downhill overall, by 300ft, there was still 500ft of climbing, so it probably evens out I guess as about flat equivalent!

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭

    Bus, do you think that's a suitable film to be watching with kids image

    Maybe Home Alone would be a better choice!

    Rob, hamstrings can be a right ass to heal..literally. Such a key muscle though.

    Bus, 15 at 6.48 is a stonker! What's the purpose of that, as a long slow one would probably come out more in the 7.25+, whereas a MP for you would perhaps be 6.25 or so...

  • Stevie seeStevie see ✭✭✭

    Hoe Alone? Very liberal father with that kind of film choice Bus! image Your long runs are getting quite tasty now! Sub 7's for 15 miles? Nice. I haven't done a run more than 10 in over a month!

    Glad you're back on the mend Rob, but those 5 days show things must be holding up well. Hope the speed work goes well next week. Maybe see you out for a 5k soon?

    Philip that race sound pretty awful in that weather, worse then what I got up here. I decent blast out though and anything for us around 6min/miles is good quality in the bank.

  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭

    Oh yeah, I got confused - Hoe Alone is in my 'special' collection! I watch it with my bros...

    No real training science behind todays run (or most of mine tbh!). I generally aim my long road runs at about 7:15 pace but decided to aim at 7mm today and just ran as I felt really - got a bit carried away I guess!! I've switched from steady off-road to more pacey road for my long runs for a few weeks in the build up to Wycombe. Whilst there's no chance of a HM PB, I'd quite like to see just how near 1:20 I can get on that course (though I suspect the answer will be "not very close"!).

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭

    image you never know Bus. I think when we're both on top form, the races you have the best chance of beating me on are longer and hillier fare. Ones where i can't just monster off and hold on!

    Only problemo with that kind of pace run is that it can fall between 2 stools, the slow stamina job of a LSR adn the more targetted MP or progressive run.

    The session that i smashed that made me realise i was on for a nice pb before Wokingham 2011 was a 14miler, 8miles easy to steady, 3miles MP, and then 3miles HMP. The 3miles at HMP came out at the exact pace of the actual race!

  • seb, have track spikes but I don't think I will use them for 5000m. I wore them last week for the speed session and I was crocked afterwards. I am fairly sure the spikes had nothing to do with it at all but it is a mind bender I could do without.

  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭

    I wore spikes on the track on a number of occasions when I seemed to be on what passes for top form and every time ended up with strained calf muscles, except when on the old cinder track that exists at Ruislip. I had my suspicions that it wasn't so much the spikes that caused the problems but the spikes combined with the running surface. Basically, the all weather track afforded too much grip and the muscles couldn't handle it. On the cinders there was an element of 'give' which probably equated to flat shoes on any other surface. 

  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭

    I've got a pair of spikes under the bed I've never used. I bought them for £10 the day after my last track session and haven't been to the track since - sucker for a bargain! Sounds like it just as well I haven't...

    Stevie - that progression session is probably the best one to do. I should have thought of that today as the last 10 miles were mainly flat or downhill.  I normally have to end with either Amersham Hill or Cryer's Hill in the last 3 miles of my long road runs, which puts paid to any sort of sensible pacing at the end!

  • Bus interesting what you say about progression running as I found since I set my Garmin to autolap that most of my runs are progressive and to be honest I never really noticed has anyone else found this?

    I seem to go from 7 ish min miles to low 6's on most runs this only happens when I run alone!!
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭

    For our level on this thread, I wonder if there is much benefit wearing spikes on the track? Surely racers are good enough, without the threat of metal reverberating on a hard surface through your legs?

    The other benefit of the progression Bus, is that it keeps you interested mentally, and keeps you honest as you have to get faster.

    Rest day today, but a 6 and a 4 tomorrow, and then a good old fashioned 6m MP friday. Should be fine as i did one of these a couple of weeks back, in my "Test myself" period of the recovery.

    16miler sunday morning if anyone's interested?

  • DeanR7DeanR7 ✭✭✭

    i would buy spikes if i ran 800m/1500m but anything longer nowadays i would use racers to protect from injury.

  • Dean I agree if I raced an 800 or 1500 then spikes above that racing flats!!
  • Having said that it would be actually nice to race at all image
  • DeanR7DeanR7 ✭✭✭

    Rob,im sure your summer will get off and running v soonimage

    for the northern monkeys, south cheshire harriers are doing a 3*5k series this summer.  Its on their website, not sure if they have run them before or if they are flat & fast.  Anyone know?

  • Stevie seeStevie see ✭✭✭

    Not heard of those yet Deano but have checked out the Stone 10k and I'm in for that, will enter when I get paid on the 15th. Hopefully it won't be full by then.

    I wear flats for my 3k's but I'd like some spikes to be honest, if only to make me feel/look more like I actually belong there! image

    Rob, I'm as you with running alone. If I'm running over 4 miles then it always ends up starting at 7:30 pace then ending up at 6:25 ish for the last couple of miles. I always end up thinking, well this is still 'kind' of easy so just plod on!

    Did an hour rolling/stretching in the gym followed by an achy 3.5 at 7:55 pace. My legs certainly feel that session from last night. Hopefully won't catch up on me tomorrow.

  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭

    If anyone has UK size 7.5 feet I have a pair of twice used ASICS spikes going spare.

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭

    Small size Ric...yours, or someone smaller?

    ps I really need to stay on the proper running discussion threads, there's some nonsense on the general thread...

  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭

    Hey what you trying to say about small feet then Stevie?? I'm a 7.5...small but perfectly formed image  If I got off my butt and went to the track Ric, I'd have em, but probably not worth it tbh.

    Re finishing faster than starting, this does happen naturally on short to medium runs up to about 10 miles, but beyond that I find tiredeness kicks in making gettting faster much more of an effort

  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭

    SG, I was given them by someone else. But at 1.65m tall or short, size 12's would look a bit odd.

    Daily mileage over last two weeks: 9, 7, 7, 11, 3, 14, 7, 12, 16, 13, 8, 12, 12, 13. So some nonsense here if nothing comes of it.

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭

    86 miles over the last 7 days?

  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭

    So it would appear. I make it up as I go along. Its based on recovery. I compare each day with the previous one. If I feel good or better than the day before then what ever I did must have been ok. Lately I've been waking up really early so straight into the woods for 60 mins. The higher mileage days have evolved as my lad insists I go with him when he deigns to train. Until I realised I needed to stuff my face for the evening run, I felt so rough that I gave the 15 year old a bit of a hard time for dragging me out.

  • 7.5 is my size too.

    Know what they say about people with small feet: small shoes image

    May take you up  on the 16 SG, gentle? 07:00 on Sunday, but will check the weather first.

  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭

    and small socks....

    whichever way you look at it Ric, that's a big 7 days!

  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭

    Yes Bus, the numbers are looking a tad extreme. If I felt tired I wouldn't continue with it. The fact that wet weather wipes out my garden jobs tends to help matters time wise. And lately there's been a lot of that. Also most of the running has been slow easy stuff with no sustained digging elements. Just conditioning stuff. I think when Lydiard recommended this 100 miles per week for 12 weeks before fast work it was on account of his own experience. What isn't generally known was that he accumulated this mileage, not as sustained training runs but as a by product of his job as a milkman. He simply jogged, walked all day long. So I rarely run in a continuous stream. I'll stop and stretch at various points, faster slower. All sorts but mainly monitoring whether or not I'm damaging myself. 

  • RicF wrote (see)

     I think when Lydiard recommended this 100 miles per week for 12 weeks before fast work it was on account of his own experience.

    To be fair, we have a little more science available to us now than the days of Lydiard so while his input is valuable, there are alternatives.

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭

    there are a lot of small footed people on this thread image

    Phil, yep, 7.30 average type pace, none of this Bus 6.48 pacing image

    I'll aim to run it whatever the weather is at 7am

    Concerning Lydiard, I thought all he said was that the average sedentary person could build up to 100mile weeks within about 12weeks. I didn't think he actually advocated them doing it anywhere...

     

  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭

    Phil, you're quite correct. More science is available as well the means to communicate knowledge and experience. I'll stick my neck out and state that everyone who posts on this thread has a deeper understanding of the training process than Lydiard ever did. Incidentally, I have just run this potential heresy past my wife who also happens to be a very patriotic New Zealander and remain in one piece.

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