Moraghan Training - Stevie G

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  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭

    If there'd been EOD I'd have done the Chiltern Chase today! Woke up around 7.30 and logged on to see what time it started, which was 10, so could have made it, only to find it was pre-entry only anyway. hey ho - probably just as well. Nice 9M hilly xc instead, making 53M for the week, all off singles. Felt OK, but have a pretty sore left hip after that I'll need to be careful of - might take a couple of days off.

     

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭

    looking at last year's times, a 37 would have got top 3...so you'd have been in the mixer for top 3 today I reckon.

    Watch that hip...as i found out...it's  a disturbing place to get a niggle, as the hip is so important in all movement.  Have a good stretch if you need one...

    Meanwhile, I'm in contact with Run Britain about how they set their rankings lists up...on power of 10 they list all your clubs, yet for some reason on Run Britain they list only your 1st claim... my local club guy has seen that it shows Sandhurst next to my name for that 5k, and refuses to put it  on the local club's site...despite the results list clearly showing that club's name

    Awkward? Much?

  • DeanR7DeanR7 ✭✭✭

    just back from the potters 'arf (which i am told is stoke for Half marathon)

    800ft of hills with 2 absolute killers, incredible support all round. It was really hot as well, not oprresive heat like sale/wilmslow but a little too warm for a HM.  Really good fun as i put zero pressure on myself as i havent done any long distance work since feb and april on has been 5k specific. so i decided to go out give my wife,  kids and friends a decent show and be the "showman" by waving and conducting the crowd the whole way round. It was really good racing with zero pressure and just for the fun of it.  Of course the sportsman in you kicks in at points but i had a great time.  First mile was fast and as my family were in the first mile supporting it came out as 5.12, i imagine the majority of the thread shaking their collective heads in dismay but im sure SG is nodding approvingly. i was tucked in not too far behind andi jones and ben gamble in 3rd.  Of course that wasnt going to last too long. lost a few positions come mile 8 & was down in 9th/10th i think but still sub 6mm pace so 78 was on let alone 80. Still waving and sticking my tongue out to kids or anyone who cheered. went past a few family friends high fiving as i pass. big hill at 12m and  i get abused/encouraged that if i can smile going up milton hill i should really be running faster by some locals. Cheers...have a wink and a gun. Last mile and im in 8th (i think) so start to wind it up  (it had some uphill in it too) as i chase down the chap in front, he was a 74m PB on the flat, and had over 100m on me. But my kids were in that last 200m so i need to sign off with a sprint, the last 80m is 3 deep crowd all the way to the finish and im flying (garmin says last 230m were covered in 33secs or 3.58mm pace)  and the crowd are getting loud as im closing on the chap in front quickly.  as i get close to him the noise is incredible and he turns to see what the fuss is and picks his pace up to beat me to the line by a 10 metres or so. Damn! But my kids thought it was good, so silver linings etc... That last mile which undulates came in at 5.15. Overall 8th (although my daugther thinks i was 7th so it could be improved) in 77.4x.  So bearing in mind the course and my attitude to having fun on it i am very happy with that.  I ran much better than i thought i would.  Still....prefer the short races though.

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭

    first mile 5.12, last mile 5.15, yet a 77:4x i think shows the steepitude (allow it) of the course!

    Shockingly fast last 230metres too! Perhaps a 14sec last 100? What can you do 100 in by the way Dean? Got to be 12 or under?

    Good performance to say the least, and some quality show boating along the way... I do a half on a fast course slower than you...and then there's no room for any tomfoolery image

    How big a race field? Anything for top 7/8?

  • DeanR7DeanR7 ✭✭✭
    Philip_M_Jones wrote (see)

    Dean, I did find the Stoke website and I am sure it was meant as a compliment, though it did read a bit like the second coming in places.

    Ha Ha...it can be a little embarrassing reading what they write especially when we have an olympic hopefull over 800m  & some other very fast types who can destroy me over any distance. But im sure it is all meant as motivational and positive & I think they expect more of me than they seen so far.

    SG - to be fair the majority of that sprint was downhill into a crowd that had my kids at the bottom...so perfect conditions to move fast.image No idea what my 100m PB is.  Prizes for top 5 and top 3 in the age categories and i think there was about 1300 runners.  All senior men ahead so there was no prize for me, although only 6months off my 40th i think i might have a shout next yr. Also I dont mean any disrespect to anyone by saying i got a 77.x and didnt take it seriously, what i meant is i let the pace flow, at wilmslow HM if i saw the pace drop slower than 5.45 i worked hard to correct it but today i just let it be and smiled.  It was quite refreshing after my recent races not to be at the mercy of the splits.

     Official results are up and it was 77.42 and 7th.   Last yr i did it in 86.xx for a PB then. 

  • Dean, target 80 on a hilly course and you deliver 77.4x, amazing!

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭

    If it's a hard course, you won't have the ability to keep to the usual flat pace, it's just the way it is sometimes. We have  the Wycombe half and 10k this way that's similar. There's stretches you just have to do what you can do on.

    You'll be a race prize hustler when you hit 40 for sure. Lots of pots coming your way i think.

    What times did you do in your youth by the way? You represented england at schoolboy level right? I always bear that in mind with you, as otherwise, 39years old and a mere year or so of running and hitting the times you do is outrageous!

    Bus, just seen the Chil Chase 10k results...my club mate was just under 38 for 4th, with 3rd and the winner both being V40. 3rd was 37.20s, so you'd have probably had a right old battle for 3rd and thus 1st V40, as that course has to add a min to a flat 10k.

    1st and 2nd were decent times, in the 36s, but not the 33s for the front 3 as per last time I did the event (the 5k) in 09.

    Standard has definitely drifted, as in 08 when i last did the 10k, i was 34th in 39:5x, that would have been 12th this year. And bear in mind 08 was super hot too.

    One of my clubmates did the 5k and came 5th....not that I'm bitter about the abuse for winning it that time image

  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭

    Dulwich Park 10k for me today. Just under 38 mins for a three lap course in which the downhill was obvious but uphill not so. In view of not having gone faster than 7 min mile pace at all in the last 4 weeks I was looking at more of a brisk run than a racing effort. Set off at a decent pace and waited to tie up a bit or blow up, but neither occurred. Why spoil the outing by forcing things. Recovered ok too.

    Checked the age grade % for when I did 33:45 on this course in 1997 and checked the equivalent for today. It came out at 37:51, so only 7 seconds adrift, with a lot less effort.

  • Stevie seeStevie see ✭✭✭

    Hey guys, just had a flick through as I've been away all weekend. Deano - I'm not surprised that you pushed out a 77:4x. Pure class. I see Andi Jones won in 67?

    Run Britain... farcical. I dropped to 2.7 from 2.6 after last weeks 5k despite them ranking it as my 8th best performance. Target times are really out there too.

    I've been away with at the Welsh Castles relay from Canervon (spelling!) North Wales to Cardiff castle. It's basically a 20 leg, 200 miles running version of  the tour De France. Amazing race and experience. How they organise the logistics is beyond me. I did my leg today after nearly (and I mean nearly) freezing to death over night in a tent. I ran leg 19 (11.1 miles) in 72 min and came 6th. So very pleased. The course was a swine (evil German accent). Hills everywhere, I heard after it's know as the 'secret mountain stage.' As there are 3 official mountain stages... one of which just seemed impossible. Well worth doing.

  • DeanR7DeanR7 ✭✭✭

    anyone else having a nightmare getting onto this site?

    SG - i never represented england but made a number of england schools finals. not quite as impressive.  I have beaten some good runners in my pomp but i was a bit up and down & would often hinder myself by playing football/basketball/hockey or something else random the day of or before a big race. I wasnt very disciplined.

    Dachs - i can understand if you have some disappointment with todays race but only when comparing to your consistant PBing.  From arms length there looks to be some positives to take, one being the consistant splits. The other is it wasnt a flat fast race and your time was decent still plus you have been on hols and training for a mara.  Sometimes you have to chalk off a race but i think there is still something to take from this one. image

    SS - Andi was a monster. 67 on a beast of a course...Ben gamble in 70 then the pack in 76/77s.  The relay sounds good...camping does not!  Good running on a tough course

  • DachsDachs ✭✭✭

    Dean, great running as always.  Sounds like you're in line for a fairly monsterous PB at half marathon, so make sure you run one on the flat before you pack it all in for the sprinting.  More of your playing up to the audience eh?  I can only ever manage a non-committal thumbs up, so I admire your showmanship.

    Ric, good stuff, sounds positive.  And Stevie S, I would say that that sounds like fun, but it doesn't.  But well done anyway.

    Bus, this week I've done very little running, so I kind of hoped overtraining wasn't the issue.  The more I think about it, the more I think that 50% of it was just having the wrong frame of mind on the day - not really feeling up for it, and then not knuckling down when it felt tough.  Next 10k is Yateley, so I shall be hitting that one hard and will grin and bear the pain.

    SG - actually, as a junior club runner, I was a decidedly average mid-packer, and I'm a lot quicker now than I ever was then.  Guess I was a late developer, and gave it all up before I ever really came into my own.  However, my uncle was a 31:xx 10k man, and once beat Steve Ovett in a junior race (it's probably worth adding that my uncle was about 3 years older!), so some genes may be in there somewhere.

  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭

    Run Britain rankings. I seem permanently stuck on 3.7 and have to run 17:48 for 5k to reach 3.6.

  • RicF wrote (see)

    Run Britain rankings. I seem permanently stuck on 3.7 and have to run 17:48 for 5k to reach 3.6.

    Just as a farcical example, I am at 2.6 and need 17:20 to reach 2.5, and I am sure RicF won't mind me mentioning he is a few years my senior.

    Results from the 5000 now up and of the 8 runners in the race, 6 scored AW rated runs which was the highest for the whole match so we were done hard.

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭

    Dean, fair play, but a much better pedigree than my 2nd last in the Year 12 cross country out of 100 kids back in the early 90s!

    Site has been a right mess with the spam, and then taking ages to open etc!

    Ric, must be odd coming back to courses you've smashed in your peak. I suppose like Ron Hill  when he was asked the same thing, "you either play or you take your ball home" (paraphrased!)

    Ric and Phil (a potential combo to rival Mick N Phil?), your times to improve your handicap are ridiculous, fairly sharp improvements required, whereas for the likes of me and Stevie See we can afford to run slower and get a higher handicap!?

    Dachs, 31 is pretty fast, you have a lot  to live up to.

    I remember reading (i think it might havebeen Ron Hill again) say that club runners these days are happy to run 30mins for 10k and be treated like legends in their club, and not kick on!

    I'd wager a lot lot slower than that!!

  • TippTopTippTop ✭✭✭

    RicF - that makes much more sense with it being Harry Wilson. He was also, I believe, a big fan of the solid 10-milers ala Lydiard's base. It's just as well Horwill never met Barry Magee - Barry wasn't breaking 60s for a flat-out 400m by much (I think, off the top of my head, something like 58s), but he had the stamina to run a mile in 4:07.

    PP - it would be good to see what you could do for a focused marathon, especially with the improvements you are currently making! When the time comes I've got some good stuff which I actually understand the logic behind and can explain, if you're interested. There doesn't seem to be much interest in marathon training here, other than to say it's big miles, so let me know and I can email you some stuff instead of clogging up here.
    You know my take on McMillan. My conversions are so tight that it's meaningless. Essentially what he predicts for my 10km is about what I would run 5km in. Interestingly, I notice that for women at about the same level as me, the conversions seem to be similar (it's generally accepted that women convert tighter), so I'm guessing it's primarily a fuelling thing (as in I must naturally burn a lot more fat at marathon effort, even untrained - Berlin last year backed that up actually). I guess that makes me a big girl then image

    SG - is there another Wycombe HM I don't know about? It's not that bad. As I remember it you've got a tough first 2m, which probably costs about a minute or so in total, and the last 5km has a gradual rise back into the Rye. All in all I'd put it at no more than a flat marathon + 1:30-2:00 (at the very very most). Which for me, running it flat out makes it a great predictor of current marathon pace. If you want a tough HM, the toughest I can think of is the Berkhamsted HM, but even then I know people who have run fast on it. I'd also put Burnham Beeches and Pewsey as tougher courses than Wycombe personally.

  • DachsDachs ✭✭✭

    Well, it seems like I might be having SG's, Ric's and Phil's luck with RunBritain, because, even after a crap race like yesterday, my handicap has still been reduced from 1.6 to 1.5.  I think SG in particular is just suffering from not having raced much recently, and having run his quicker 10k's (which RunBritain seems to value highest) in non-UKA races.

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭

    Definitely Dachs, it reminds me of my old club's championship system, that rewarded doing more races above doing them fast!

    Zattu, interesting you say that. My initial perception is that Wycombe is the harder course, as the 1mile hill loses you ground straight away, and those last 5miles inclining 100feet sap you suprisingly. There are also a fair few little ups and downs that destroy rhythm.

    However, I've done Wycombe 6 times, and know every single bit of the route, which probably doesn't help as sometimes that means you can hype bits up, rather than coming to it fresh!....I'm a little bit more sketchy on Burnham as I did that twice in 02 and 04, a fair while ago now, but I have done the 5k numerous times which features probably the hardest section of the half.

    I remember Burnham as a 2 lapper, with 2 steep inclines, but most of it is pretty decent. What you are guaranteed wih Burnham is a boiling hot day, being mid August. Wycombe used to have some very hot days itself, but last 4 or 5 years not bad.

    Just for the record my head to heads, for the 2 years I did both...

                            2002                     2004
    Wycombe        1:41:38                  1:30:45  
    Burnham          1:34:13                  1:28:42

    I think the talk of Wycombe being a tough course was in relation to the 1.4 handicap score on RB, with Wokingham a 0.01. The 5k myself and Bus did was given a 1.5

    Marlow is clearly a tougher course, but if I had to rank the halves I've done for toughness, i'd go (toughest first)

    Marlow
    Wycombe
    Burnham Beeches
    Reading
    Silverstone
    MK
    Gosport
    Wokingham

    we're talking buttons between the bottom 4...with Silverstone's wind and wide grid factors meaning it comes out "Toughest" of that 4some.

    I'm obviously not as good a runner as some, as i found I lost a stack of time between Wokingham and Wycombe last time out, 5 1/2mins! I'd be delighted with a sub 1hr 20 half at Wycombe...that'd be top 5 guaranteed most years.

    Bus/Phil, how much have you lost between Wokey and Wycombe?

  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭

    Ah, back on - couldn't get on last night...

    Firstly - well done Dean. Sounds like a more relaxed race strategy paid dividends  on a tough course!  Andi Jones is a top bloke and a damn good fell runner too. Regularly posts on the FRA forum

    Stevie See - sounds like an interesting event. Sometimes hard to get going after a cold night's camping as well!

    Dachs - sounds like it was just one of those days then.

    RicF - nice solid 10k, and good to keep the WAVA consistent too!

    SG/ZaTTu - I agree with both of you (almost!) . I think Wycombe is tougher than Berko, even though Berko has a bit more climbing, mainly because of that draining last few miles of Wycombe compared to a nice long downhill at Berko, and also the fact that's its usually much hotter for Wycombe. I've only done Berko once mind, but that year I finished 6 mins faster than Wycombe (had a really bad vomiting session at 10M and almost had to crawl the next few miles!). The closest time in any one year I've got between Wokingham and Wycombe was 1:04, but that was when Wokingham was moved to May and it was a scorcher! Normally it's more like 2-3 mins difference.

    Marlow is definitely the toughest local half though, just for the shear amount of climbing! It's rarely too hot mind!  I did last years just over 3mins slower than my half PB at Paddock Wood this year, even though it was probably a better run. That said, my course PB for Marlow is 30 secs faster than for Wycombe currently, and it was the course I first went sub 90 on.  Course bests are:

    Paddock Wood 1:18:46

    Wokingham 1:19:33

    Wycombe 1:22:27

    Marlow 1:21:51

     

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭

    Bus, those are good efforts on the Marlow and Wycombe courses. That's not a time I'd like to commit to beating, and that's with almost an extra minute scope on the half pb. It can be all too easy to just ease off a bit over that distance when you know a pb is out of the question before you even start.

    My last Wycombe was only 1:24:49 (2010), which stands out quite badly amongst my last 6 halves going back to Feb 2010!

    1:19:21
    1:24:49
    1:19:43
    1:17:59
    1:19:27
    1:17:53

    I think i'd be more inclined to have a crack at Gosport this November, then to take the risk of doing a hilly course in summer! Terrific finish with views of the coast in the last couple of miles there...if you aren't really unlucky with the weather. Also makes the XC series seem very short in comparison!

  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭

    SG, Returning to the scene of past triumphs I suppose. For some reason I have a video of that 1997 race so I can see how I'm going at lap 1, 2 and the finish. It was having a fast cadence that got me the result and yesterday I found that I could maintain the same which hasn't been the case for quite a while. A couple of differences though. My diary of 1997 has my weight down as 118lb's whereas yesterday it was 129lb's. Out of interest I checked the stride frequency during the race and with some calculations I determined that the only difference was a loss of  around 6 inches in stride length from 15 years back. It doesn't take much. An inch in stride length for me yesterday was worth approximately 45 seconds over the 10k.

  • DachsDachs ✭✭✭

    SG - I was considering Gosport this year too, as I'd like to do a half at a time when I can benefit from marathon training.  The only half I've got planned otherwise, in July, looks like it's a long way from being a PB course, and if it's a hot day it will be a very tough one.

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭

    Ric, they told me you were an anorak, but i think your recording of weight means you have now gazumped Phil as thread anorak king!

    Dachs, I can recommend Gosport on all levels. A good trip down to the coast, great views in the last couple of miles, and potentially a fast course. I did come out 22sec slower than my Wokingham pb when I went in 2010, but i had one of those slight colds that are fine to race hard through, but just take the very top line off you.

    Met the mighty Pantman who is a well known RW poster of the past, and his 14 year old son...in fact i had to work to beat the pair of them in the last mile!

    Is a tedious 4-5mile stretch around an airfield, both directions, which will be windy, but all in all a good little trip.

    What i won't do again, is do an XC, then do a Half, then do xc...i'll do the half, then move to xcs to keep them separate!

  • DachsDachs ✭✭✭

    Speaking of events far into the future, entries for the Cabbage Patch 10 on 21st October appear to be open.  It did seem at one point like this would be a fair old forum meet-up.  I have pencilled it in (3 weeks after the marathon, so it's probably OK for me).  Anyone else?  I think someone even mentioned it could be a good location for hosting our northern chums, what with it being a nice middling distance to suit all comers over a fast course, and also there being the bright lights of London to dazzle those more used to glum northern drizzle.

  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭
    Stevie G . wrote (see)

    Ric, they told me you were an anorak, but i think your recording of weight means you have now gazumped Phil as thread anorak king!

    SG, I have over 20 years worth of diaries with such drivel.

     

    Cabbage Patch is on the cards for me again.

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭

    Dachs, is a good fast pb attempt, better than Maidenhead i think.

    I'm just a little loathe to enter races that far ahead at the mo..i want to bed in some good training and make sure nothing tweaks again..but in theory... a good thread meet up. Also i'm a little worried about that one after smashing it last year image

  • Dachs, I am up for Cabbage Patch and will enter soon whilke I feel I can go sub 60.

  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭

    Count me in!

  • Never raced 10mile before but willing to try! So I will enter at some point, should be a good thread meet by the sounds of it. 60 mins probably the target.

    Nice HM Dean, good time on whats sounds a nasty course.

    average 10k for me on Sunday, bit like dachs, 36:26 on an undulating but not really hilly course. Net uphill by 100 feet or so but nothing drastic. watch recorded last sector 80m long and hence said 5:49 miling which im happy with. couldnt have gone all out otherwise wouldnt have been in the gym the same afternoon... miles 5:45, 5:45, 6:09, 5:55, 5:47, 5:39 so yet again I let the pace slip in the more undulating middle miles.

    Got Banbury 5 tomorrow night, hope its dryer than today image

  • Stevie seeStevie see ✭✭✭

    I'm tempted to do the Cabbage patch, when is it? I want sub 60 this year and will need a good course/field to do it.

    Seb if you're cooking 36:26 on a tricky course you have more than a shout at sub 60 for 10 I'd say.

    Deano...Lake Vyrnwy?! Sub 75 beckons! I've entered but entry fills very fast and has been open a while already. Think I'm stopping over too... I think!

  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭

    October 21st...

    Seb - you should be looking quite a long way under 60 for Cabbage Patch.  I did 58:48 last year and you're a lot faster than me!

    Hip still a bit sore today and a touch of shin splints in the same leg. May take tomorrow off as well. See how a bit of foam rolling and stretching feels. It would be a very bad time to pick up an injury with 4 races in the next 5 weeks.

     

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