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that's a hell of a sesh Stevie, and comes out quicker than me and Bus's recent sessions, but also with 200s stapled on at the end. Surely those 800s come out quicker than 17.15 as add 1sec to make it a 1/2mile rep.... and thus 2:45 per 1/2mile, 5:30 per mile.
5.30 x3= 16.30, add say 30secs for the 0.1m, = 17mins.....you might well find you get under my 5k pb before i do...
you have my slightly "dodgy" 17.10 to beat...with the "safe" gaggle of 17.20s to 17.23s a secondary target!
Cheers, Stevie. Of course 17mins, thought my maths' was out. I didn't realise I was going that well. It did feel fast to be fair, I was just in the mood for some destruction. Won't be near 17:10 SG worry not! You should be smashing that but as you say, fast 5k's are at a premium down your way. I am aiming at 17:20 though. The 200's were a last minute decision during the day. I remember ALD's 'another gear' training where he had the body of a session at one pace but would always end with a few faster reps. His spirit lives on in my training!
It's a relief not to have a race close so I can really hit the sessions hard and 'enjoy' them.
Sometimes Stevie, the maths can make you slow down...it's a bit like when you're racing someone you've always lost to...psychologically it can make you slow. If you'd known you were hitting 17min dead pace you might well have thought, this i silly and slow it...but because you didn't realise, may be it let you smash on through...
hopefully ALD will re-surface at some point...i see him for the odd United game, but he's changed his training from the mileage us lot to do, to something along the lines of 3 hard sessions and some weights..he's looking pumped these days
Will be very interesting to see what you produce...I'm sure the general rule of thumb is you can produce in a race what you run in reps...with the race day atmosphere equalising the recoveries....
i should probably put in for a 5k sometime soon myself...felt weird running round the local park with the markers up for tonight's wycombe 5k, without doing it myself...pleased though..it's a 2 lap on a massive grassy park...one i run on all the time..yawn!! Something rubbish about races that you can see the full course at any time!
Very good session that Stevie. Is 2 mins your normal recovery between 800s?
Dean - it gets diffiult to come out of your comfort zone with hard sessions. I got comfortable doing longish tempo runs at almost race pace but couldn't cope with intervals. Now the pedulum has swung the other way a bit and I'm not doing the tempos I should be! It's the variation that keeps things intersting over time I guess.
10.5 miles xc today at a slow pace, and my legs felt really heavy! Everything else less than 7.5M for the rest of the week, with only one hard reps session before Sunday's race and Saturday off.
Hey - shock of shocks, I've been watching football tonight! May be not ready for a whole match yet mind but still found it more entertaining than usual....
Doing anything tomorrow Bus? I need to do a single of a 9, and it might be awkward to sneak that length in tomorrow at lunch, so may well be an evening job...if you're doing even the 7.5 tomorrow.
Alternatively, Phil, wednesday evening 9?
A lot of people are either intervals or tempos...with my footy upbringing, i suppose intervals were always my style....fast bits, then a bit of time off! When i first learnt about tempos, a medium to quite hard pace for miles and miles, my first reaction was...don't like these! Now you just have to be glad they're not the sub 5 pace stuff...
I think you're right SG, 17min pace would have sent alarm bells ringing. Just as well I can't add up. I heard ALD was maxing up size wise, lifting all kinds of silly weights. Good on him, I'm still to catch his times!
Bus - 2mins is the usual, I know 90 seconds recovery is the 'you're ready to race' session but I've yet to do one. 16 x 200 on Thursday is next up! Gulp! We'll make a footy fan out of you yet Bus!
Easy 5.5 miles tomorrow morning as I'm off to rock with Pearl Jam tomorrow night. (they don't have a rock and roll emoticon!)
just back from the track 6*800 off 90 secs. i was ridiculously sensible. Slowed them down from the normal sub 2.30 to 2.40 target.
they came out 2.40, 2.41, 2.42, 2.43, 2.41, 2.40. Achilles was tight but no pain, i guess the acid test will be in the morning. I also have the physio in the morning and hoping it will be Mr Myagi and work some looseness into it. At the moment i dont think i can race flat out at Stone 10k on sunday but might do it as a tempo. will have to see how the week plays out. also was very suprised at my conditioning...i felt the pace and was blowing a little....with the taper before the half and then enforced rest since its had an effect, im sure it will come back as quick as its fallen off
some good sessions tonight.. SG - looks good &.SS looks like a 10k revision could be coming up with a session like that.
Rob - good work and good news on the injury clearing...not wanting to dampen spirits but the youngsters did a similar session to you tonight and the 800 was 2.02, 400 was 57, 200 was 24 and then back up again at the same times ish. Pretty decent stuff
Dean - sounds like the achilles is moving in teh right direction anyway, and well done for being sensible! (wish my sensible pace came out like that!!)
Rob - likewise with the calf, fingers crossed you can move on now.
Stevie G - doubles for me tomorrow I'm afraid, so 7.5M am to the station and a very easy 5.5M home. Shame - I could do with a steady chat based session!
Don't strain your neck muscles at Pearl Jam Mr See!
hey rob ...thats the same excuse i used
they kept moving during recoveries,
lets see how they are moving in their 40s...fiver says you come out on tops
Dean, rest assured that your sensible 800s would leave most of us doing all manner of nasty stuff at the side of the track
Stevie, yep along those lines, that's why he's a good fella to go to United games with when you're buying tickets dodgily arranged with a stranger over the net . He's the muscle, and we can both shift sharpish if it turns ugly.
Enjoy Pearl Jam! Aren't they a bit before your time!!
Bus, no worries..i'm sure there's plenty of chance to do one soon. Taking you to Marlow to do the club 9mile route over Winter Hill is a good one. Nice scenic route, and a few mild climbs later on...
in fact, that sounds a good choice for tomorrow actually..will just make sure i don't do it too late, as once I timed it ridiculously, and had an eerie 3-4miles across dark random off road trails and woodland!
ps Phil, i know you've 5kd it up, and probably have light duties tomorrow, but you're welcome on that run tomorrow if it happens...planning 10x400 friday, potentially up the track in the evening...i know that must be a fantasticly tempting one...track on a friday night! but hey, i never said i was Mr exciting
ps Phil, just heard a chap from my club came 3rd tonight! Either he's ramped up another notch on his fast acceleration curve, or a lot of the front dogs didn't turn up, as he was circa 18.10s at Datchet?!
Youngsters! you mean there was more than one of them! The only guy in my club who could do that is a guy called Badderly.
rob - there were about 8 doing the session but only 2 were at that level the others were languishing behind a few seconds!!. The lad leading is a regular on the AAAs and has a sub 1.50 800 and sub 3.50 1500. So a talented chap. My only gripe is how effortless he made it look. He didnt look like he was moving, and it only dawned when they read the splits out.
Very impressive just to put into context a little quiz for those interested - brief session a training partner (loosly termed as couldn't get near on the track!!) of mine did at 19 back in 1983!!
4*400m (800 jog recovery) What time do you think he averaged??
46 sec reps?
just back from the physio and i have some swelling on my achilles but she thinks its has been caused by my calf. So a lightish massage on my calf and a little on achilles. the advise is i dont race on sunday. but i will see how it feels tomorrow and make the call.....which is very likely to follow the advise given. So Stevie S put down those peroni's, looks like you have a flat 10k to pb on sunday.
Dean - that's a shame, but probably best to be careful. I'd prefer Stevie See to PB still carrying the peronis, that would be much cooler.
My tempo sessions always seem to generate a discussion about what constitutes tempo. I think what I was hitting on Monday was 10 mile race pace on the nose, which would have been 58 dead. You could argue that 6 miles is a bit longer than usually recommended though. I find the most helpful phrase of what constitutes tempo to be 'comfortably fast', and that is usually what I base it on. They do also say that tempo is the pace when you can muster a couple of words but not a full sentence, but that doesn't work for me, cos, unless I'm sprinting or in the final stages of a race, I can probably always muster a couple of words, even if it's only "F*** this hurts!".
47's, to put into context only 22 british athletes have run sub 47 this year in a one off race!!
i won't even say what the word peronis looks like when you very quickly scan read
Has worked well today...the single of a 9miler being designated for the evening, as the day has been non stop at work...looking forward to a run out this evening on the tranquil route!
ps who's on about 46sec reps? Not sure what the 400m world record is, but surely it's not even much under that!?
I did that Winter Hill route as a walk on a lovely sunny day about a month ago. I thought then it would make a nice route. Some of those little routes up the chalk scarp of the hill looked like fun too!
Dean bad luck - sounds like your misfortune could turn to SS advantage though.
Peronis though? How can you be a proper northerner and drink Italian lager
5k race yesterday evening (so I missed the boring first half) and the figures are 17:49 for a new PB. Fingers crossed it all gets ratified and put up on po10.
I did a gentle 3 miles at lunchtime then jogged 2 miles to the race and back for 10 miles in the day. Race itself was a bit odd as last race in the series I was 11th overall and 6th finisher for my club and this time I was 5th overall and 2nd for the club so we were missing 4 fast guys. I was also about a minute faster than last time so it seems that (thankfully short) series of crap runs is over.
Race itself didn't through up too many issues. Very fast first km (3:20) and even with that I was back in 7th at the back of a group of 4 behind 3 spaced out leaders. The next km saw one of those leaders come back and drop out the back out our group of 4 and by 3km our group had spaced out with me in 3rd (so 5th overall). The course was in a narrow park so the turns at the end were very sharp and as you turned you could see the guys behind you so towards the end it was a case of everyone smiling behind a grimace and happy to hold position.
Frankie had a good one (he can tell about it himslef later) and guy from Marlow Striders as well as SG says. I had a chat with him afterwards and he said he was running a track 5000m today so took it easy.
SG, track session Friday pm, sounds good, what time exactly?
Good one Phil...taking it easy indeed....he took about 10secs off his pb.
Where did the race go? Did it start in near the boating pond, 2 whole laps...including round the back of the weird adventure playground bit, and then right the way round the back of the park and end near the tennis courts? Just checking as some fast times are coming out
I wonder who came 2nd then...presuming Frankie won...as seems like a lot of the big names didn't turn up then...at least 4 or 5 Datchets, 2/3 Maidenhead's, a Burnham and a Wargrave nowhere to be seen?!
Sounds like you're in good form then Phil, as although it's a flat one..it's hard to keep your mind and body ticking over as it's such a tedious course seeing the whole thing the whole way, and a 2 lapper.
I'm glad i didn't race as you'd have been giving it your usual "i could see you the whole way round" routine...valid for once, as you can see everyone the whole way round... I prefer the courses you can lose people round bends, and crush their spirits...Maidenhead is a little better for that
I envy your good race as i'm having a bit of a stressy stomach week, touch of IBS, 3 days in a row issues now. Must be linked to a busy deadlne period at work..so will hopefully improve...
Friday as per my text looking to be tracking by 6 after a warm up.. 10x400s at 5k pace. Hopefully i won't be splattering the track and anyone on it by then
Stevie G . wrote (see)
Good one Phil...taking it easy indeed....he took about 10secs off his pb. Where did the race go? Did it start in near the boating pond, 2 whole laps...including round the back of the weird adventure playground bit, and then right the way round the back of the park and end near the tennis courts? Just checking as some fast times are coming out I wonder who came 2nd then...presuming Frankie won...as seems like a lot of the big names didn't turn up then...at least 4 or 5 Datchets, 2/3 Maidenhead's, a Burnham and a Wargrave nowhere to be seen?! Sounds like you're in good form then Phil, as although it's a flat one..it's hard to keep your mind and body ticking over as it's such a tedious course seeing the whole thing the whole way, and a 2 lapper. I'm glad i didn't race as you'd have been giving it your usual "i could see you the whole way round" routine...valid for once, as you can see everyone the whole way round... I prefer the courses you can lose people round bends, and crush their spirits...Maidenhead is a little better for that I envy your good race as i'm having a bit of a stressy stomach week, touch of IBS, 3 days in a row issues now. Must be linked to a busy deadlne period at work..so will hopefully improve... Friday as per my text looking to be tracking by 6 after a warm up.. 10x400s at 5k pace. Hopefully i won't be splattering the track and anyone on it by then
He reckons he was 40 seconds slower than his PB.
Route is on my garmin track: http://connect.garmin.com/activity/190735158
Seems the fast guys were at training (Elite Squad) and one at Queen Mother reservoir 10k.
I'll try and catch you on Friday at 5:30 pm, what about Shell petrol station just beyond the girls school (very dodgy arranging to meet a man on the internet outside the girls school)? I'll text to confirm nearer the time.
Don't like to point it out...but potential short course? 3.04miles?
Most courses come out higher than the distance, as they're meant to be marked as the minimum distance you can possibly cover the route in f(or those of us who like to literally scrape along the boundaries!)
0.6 less could be as much as 12-15secs cut off....
but anyway...seems our Steve is a bit mysterious then...power of 10 has no records really...and he quoted to me that 18:40 was his pb...which then went to 18:10, and now this...possibly short sub 18?
Looks a big deficit to take 10+secs off in 4 weeksor so between Datchet and Wycombe, 2 similar courses? Especially with much lower quality at the front compared to Datchet 5k?
How much did you take off between the 2 Phil?
It reminds me a bit of my "dodgy" Maidenhead 5k of 2010, as all the front runners were about 11secs quicker...when everyone's quicker you start to panic a bit...
however, that got passed on power of 10..so stands as a pb
ps we'll aim for 5.30...maybe make it the cinema instead, as i tend to park there and begin the warm up from then...hopefully i'll be over the perils of the stomach bu then...but if not the route has enough emergency evacuation points
SG, I was 18:40 at Burnham and 17:49 last night but I had a crap race at Burnham so the course doesn't account for all that.
Garmin is always short on a tight course as it cuts corners and is also bad under trees as it uses straight lines. Doesn't really bother me, I wanted sub 18 on the course and I did that. Didcot 5 miles on July 1st with entry on the day only £1 extra (£8 affiliated) so not worth an envelope and stamp to enter early. Will do a handicap next Tuesday and if the form stays good will be out to go sub 29:04, just a number I picked form a hat bus .
congrats on the PB Phil..a couple of sighters in the last few races that built towards the race yesterday.
I'm going a bit Busboy here, but a few things don't add up...
Phil, did you take 3seconds to stop your stopwatch, hence the difference between your 17:49 quoted and your link showing 17:52?
What on earth is going on with Steve? 18:40 2months ago, 18:10 4 weeks ago, and now perhaps a 17:40 yesterday? Who takes 30secs off 2 races in a row? (ignore Burnham's 18:14 wet course).
If Steve was "taking it easy" (did he really say this?) what on earth was he doing for the 18:xx races?
How could he tell you he was "40secs slower than his pb", when to me on fb he said he "was probably sub 18 but had a watch screw up".
my brain hurts...
Either way, well done Philip! 29:04 sounds like a good target - 28:59 is even better! Wish it wasn't the wife's birthday as I could come along and pace you! Do you know if it is the same route as the Parkrun that will take place there? That new compacted gravel track along the Wye certainly has some tight turns on it, but your Garmin trace looks like some of those were avoided by heading across the grass? Net downhill 20ft mind - that will have made all the difference! The very spikey pace trace could well support the straight lining under trees theory as the biggest spikes coincide with that section. I don't really get that issue with my 310 as the receiver is a bit more sensitive than the 305.
Not sure about the other puzzle though Stevie!
Seems like Chirs Bradfield's legs have recovered much better than mine from Sunday if he can do 34 mins at QMR. Dead flat, but not the fastest course in the world due to the surface.