Moraghan Training - Stevie G

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  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭

    reading the questions thread to Steve Smythe, some top ex runner and now coach, someone basically says to him they don't want to follow a plan, but want to improve their marathon time image

    What kind of magic solution do they honestly think they'll get?

    "yeah just run whatever you fancy when you fancy, and you'll smash your target"?

  • ML84ML84 ✭✭✭
    Snow has arrived in lovely lancs. Track session tonight which had a fair dusting of snow on it with ice underneath the first 3 lanes. We ran full laps of the track in lanes 5 and 6 so I think it equates to around 420s or something similar after looking it up. 10 reps and there was 4 of us in the lead group. I should say back group because others start their laps shorter so we all finish roughly at the same time.



    we still end up at the front going into the last bend but it makes it difficult to overtake as there was 4 of us running full laps and another 30 starting at various point ahead of us. Alternated the lead and all at 76/77 secs off 45 sec recoveries. Id be lying if I said it wasn't difficult as I think the early morning 4 mile this morning seems to knock it out of me. Similar to Tuesdays session where I was goosed after that too.



    I bloody look forward to the easy days! image
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭

    Good work Matt. roll on the spring eh!

    This is completely unrelated to anything, but I laughed so hard my stomach hurt. I insist you watch the full 5mins, it's a treat!

    I want a favourite line from each of you image

  • JohnasJohnas ✭✭✭

    Matt - what pace are you doing the morning runs? They should really be setting you up for the evening session not knocking you out!

    SG - 1.18. Not a half marathon prediction but how long i managed to listen to that 'music' video

  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭
    Stevie G . wrote (see)

    reading the questions thread to Steve Smythe, some top ex runner and now coach, someone basically says to him they don't want to follow a plan, but want to improve their marathon time image

    What kind of magic solution do they honestly think they'll get?

    "yeah just run whatever you fancy when you fancy, and you'll smash your target"?

    I'm with you on this SG, there has to be some structure and plan. Its a bit like using a map. There's scale to consider but to reach the destination you have to recognise where you are in the first place. Then devise a plan to get there.

    I follow a long term plan that is based on a pattern I saw in a book called 'Winning without Drugs'. 

    The pattern allowed for phases of endurance, power and speed by giving greater emphasis to one phase without completely neglecting the others.

    I'm using the bike to build the power phase at the moment. Must be working since the last couple of off-road runs were at the same average speed as I did in the middle of summer. 

    As you know, the conditions are slightly more challenging at the moment.

     

     

    🙂

  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭
    Johnas wrote (see)

     

    SG - 1.18. Not a half marathon prediction but how long i managed to listen to that 'music' video

    Is that minutes or seconds?

    🙂

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭

    it's the most nutty clip I've seen for a long time. Big laughs guaranteed for those who can last the full 5!

  • Hi All,

    Checking back in after a some days away in France with work. Marseille had some snow and ice but brilliant blue skys and sea. Cue a bike/run session in the gym (a large bedroom with a recumbant bike and a dreadmill).

    Bike session was crap but the 3km run afterwards was worthwhile. Have just sat on the turbo for an hour, and will run easy tomorrow lunch outside (XC).

    Running is not taking a back seat this quarter, but the focus is on the bike. I'm hoping to still hang on to a tempo, a track session, then ramp the Sunday run to 1.5 - 2 easy hrs.

  • Dachs - 20 x 400 @ 3K pace? Are you for real!? image That's 8K at 3K pace? Or have I got confused somewhere?

    I did 14 x 0.25 tonight with 1:25 recovery (we were doing relays). The route is a hilly little 400M loop of a housing crescent. My reps were 82 to 85, at the end I dropped an 88 and 89 in as I was struggling. Average pace was around 5:35min/mile. 2 sessions this week! Woo! imageimage

    Can't feel my face now. Or my lungs. Or my legs. Reast day please!

    RE the pace discussion, I'm like Deano in that if I train @10k pace it will be faster than my PB pace. The same goes for every pace session, bar 1500 pace. Knife edge stuff. But then I see the sense of training at current ability and using 3-5K stuff as the 'faster than' element. So horses for courses, I'm a victim of my own bloody ambition sometimes image

  • ML84ML84 ✭✭✭
    Johnas - my morning runs have both been just over 7 min mile pace and they feel really comfortable. I'm an electrician so I'm on my feet all day, up and down on my knees, up and down step ladders etc so I don't think that helps.



    I've read a blog a good while ago about an athlete (might have been on runnerslife) who was a postie and his round was 4 miles but he never runs it or does two sessions a day as being on his feet all day can take it out of him.



    I think It'd certainly feel easier if I was sat at a desk all day.
  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭

    Yes, the type of day job can really make a dent in your running form. Walking about all day, sitting down all day. There has to be an optimum activity level in there somewhere.

    Videos.

    A favourite of mine right now is one called: HD People Are Awesome / Amazing Humans 1080P.

    Makes running look rather tame.

    🙂

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭

    There's pros and cons of office jobs tho... but personally it works well for me.

    Office...

    • pros  eat when you want, fresh for doubles
    • cons  sitting in one position for hours has effect on muscles/tightness, fixed hours, have to be strong to fight the "no lunch hour" culture, and make sure you take the break that's your right

    Stevie, as always your session looks tidy enough.Just sounds like you smashed yourself though!

     

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭

    looking at the heavy snow fall outside my window, i'm thinking 2 things

     

    convenient today is a rest day!

    And good job I wasn't planning on that XC on sunday as that surely won't be on now!

  • Stevie G . wrote (see)
    And good job I wasn't planning on that XC on sunday as that surely won't be on now!

    Surely it's prime XC conditions? This isn't a knitting club!

  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭
    IronCat5 in the Hat wrote (see)
    Stevie G . wrote (see)
    And good job I wasn't planning on that XC on sunday as that surely won't be on now!

    Surely it's prime XC conditions? This isn't a knitting club!

    Since my mother is from Yorkshire and my dad was from London it affects my choices when it comes to XC races, when it snows.

    Up north they'd be 'on'

    Down south they'd be 'off'

    As I technically qualify as a 'midlander' I guess I'd be undecided.

     

    🙂

  • DeanR7DeanR7 ✭✭✭

    what is it with these southern xc SG, you run the majority of them without spikes, some on tarmac and dont go out if the weather is slightly inclement.  you sure these are XC? image  Ironcat is right, the conditions are perfect for great XC.  

    Im with SG regards office jobs, pros and cons. 

    good session SS and Mattl, particular considering the conditions.

    Looks like helby is getting a decent level of snow this weekend and the website is going to make a call if the HM goes ahead.

  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭

    Dean, I have access to two XC leagues, Chiltern League and the Thames Valley XC league. There's also all sorts of other XC races around.

    All races bar the TVXC league are pure spikes courses, all off road.

    Not sure why the TVXC is so MT orientated but I find racing in studs limiting so I tend not to do them.

    🙂

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭

    Dean, it's less a south north divide, and more a type of league divide like Ric says.

    From what I can establish, the saturday leagues are generally the highest standard, but the courses allow more speed and consistent flow, being generally grassy laps of parks.

    Our sunday leagues are more of a challenge to hit a consistent pace, as they can almost resemble obstacle courses. Branches, trees/roots, bogs, water jumps etc, on top of the obligatory mud.

    You can race our series in spikes, people certainly do, but on some courses, you risk smashing your knees to bits as they have sections of rock hard trail!

    As for Sunday being cancelled, in fairness only about 2 races have been cancelled in the last few years, and that's been when really heavy snow has fallen, and the roads have been trecherous.

    Anyone who thinks that scenario is in anyway "perfect xc" fare, has more bravado then sense!

  • DeanR7DeanR7 ✭✭✭

    Ric i think i would do the same...my comments were made totaly tongue in cheek, in the north staffs league we have one MT course and i didnt like it either.  not sure why as i would have thought i would prefer the harder ground as its closer to road racing. 

  • DeanR7DeanR7 ✭✭✭

    SG x post - sure, if you cant get to the event then fine it should be cancelled, but XC racing is about the differing conditions underfoot that you face and overcoming them.  This thread is full of bravado when it comes to training in the snow just thought the same would apply to xc races. image

  • DachsDachs ✭✭✭

    SS - like I say, I couldn't be entirely sure what pace that is, 3K was just a guess at how long I could stretch that pace out for a full race.  I just ran them as quick as I felt I could manage consistently.

    Re the XC, it's a strange one.  I remember running loads of XC races as a kid round the West Country, all of which I ran in spikes.  Occassionally a bit of tarmac would creep in, but I just ran on my heels like a pillock.  But compared to many (not all) of them, I would still class the XC I ran last weekend as quite tough, despite a long section of hard surface which prevented spike-wearing.  Maybe it's just that my memory of the toughness of those courses from my childhood has faded due to the passage of time (apart from one particularly hideous one at Weymouth).

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭

    Dean, i remember doing races in the 06-08 period that were pretty darn dangerous. Frozen hard trail and icy stretches! I don't mind as cold as it gets, even in a vest, but once the footing is risky it's a different ball game.

    Dachs, Tadley is a demanding course. I always forget that. Even the first half that I had written off as "the calm before the storm", is quite awkward with so many branches, brambles, tree roots, and if you're over about 5ft 8 calls for a lot of ducking!

    I remember in my first year of XC racing, 06, literally begging for the finish to come...but I guess that's being so much less fit.

  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭

    Most of the XC races I've known to be cancelled have been due to problems getting there or with parking due to weather rather than the state of the course.

    A nice 7.5M XC run in this morning. Only negatives were very tired legs and one bit where I was just thinking "it's nice to have dry feet for once" then immediately plunged through asheet of snow covered ice into a bog half way up my calves!! Lots of good stares from people on the train as I sat there in my shorts!

    Considering popping to Trespass to pick up some snow goggles for the run home though, as the wind blown snow didn't half hurt my eyes image

    Ordered some bargain basement Oroc 3340s last night, with metal dobbs to grip on ice - no doubt they'll arrive just after the snow and ice has gone image

     

  • DeanR7DeanR7 ✭✭✭

    Bus -  you like your shoes! It wont be long soon before you are fully loaded (with backups) for every surface or weather out there.  I applaud your dedication. image

  • DachsDachs ✭✭✭

    The Imelda Marcos of the fell running community.

  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭
    Dachs wrote (see)

    SS - like I say, I couldn't be entirely sure what pace that is, 3K was just a guess at how long I could stretch that pace out for a full race.  I just ran them as quick as I felt I could manage consistently.

    Re the XC, it's a strange one.  I remember running loads of XC races as a kid round the West Country, all of which I ran in spikes.  Occassionally a bit of tarmac would creep in, but I just ran on my heels like a pillock.  But compared to many (not all) of them, I would still class the XC I ran last weekend as quite tough, despite a long section of hard surface which prevented spike-wearing.  Maybe it's just that my memory of the toughness of those courses from my childhood has faded due to the passage of time (apart from one particularly hideous one at Weymouth).

    Yes Dachs, Chesil Beach is a tad tougher than most courses.

    SG, I note your reference to height. Takes me back to the Hillingdon half marathon where part of the course went under a line of trees for around 400m.

    It was a blazing hot day and the only shade was right underneath them. However, anyone much taller than me 5' 5" had to run out in the open on account of the amount of low hanging branches.

    Very handy respite from the heat. 

    🙂

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭

    Today was certainly well timed as a rest day, very heavy snow, massively settled.

    Only positive was getting a half day off work over it! Bargain!

    Just makes tomorrow's planned 12miler medium quality session a bit tricky... It might be one of those sessions where I think, 4miles easy would be say 30ish mins, 4miles steady would be 26mins, 4miles MP would be 24.20ish, and just aim for the time at that intensity rather than the mileage as such.

    Then you're getting the pro rata kind of workout.

    Will be dull round a field tho..but we'll give it a go!

    Hopefully wycombe's game won't be on..can't be assed getting over there to watch a dull game in the freezing cold!

    Ric, occasionally being a lil fella helps image

    Although we're all moaning about the snow and weather now..give it a couple of months, and we'll have a 6month lotto about what dates will suddenly be very hot from no warning!

  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭
    Dachs wrote (see)

    The Imelda Marcos of the fell running community.

    Hey, what do you mean? 15 pairs is not excessive image. There's worse than me on FRA forum! Mind you, there's also plenty who have one pair of Walshes for everything  that they've been re-soling since about 1973 image

    Wycombe's pitch has under grass heating doesn't it SG? The car park would be pretty dodgy though!

    When I was out with SG last week Ric, he had to duck under a large branch I just cruised under!

    Oh BTW, I'm not moaning about the snow - I love it (though will probably be fed up with it by Tuesday!!)

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭

    how can you love the snow Bus? It slows the running, and makes doing quality pretty difficult.

    And that's before we go onto the subject of if you actually want to travel anywhere!

    The game will be similar to the XC races situation we discussed earlier, the course/pitch will be useable, it'll be the areas surrounding/getting there!

    I had an horrendous time at a game 2 years ago. Wore my XC shoes forgrip, but of course they are thin as paper, so even with 2 pairs of thick socks it was beyond freezing. Then i got a lift from a pal, who dropped me right in the centre of wycombe, in the iciest bit of the whole town...was the longest walk home ever...grrr

    presume park runs are called off in the snow? Even though i'm not a fan, I vaguely have the idea of somehow timing my run tomorrow to coincide with it. Might be slightly more interesting than lap after lap on my own...

    EDIT...not unsurprisingly it is cancelled image

    at least no 6am wakeup!!

     

  • Never been so happy to have an F-OFF! Think my school was the only one for miles that stayed open. But can't complain, that's what I'm paid to do! Quite a nice day to be honest work wise. Just got a massage stick in the post, to finally get into those sore calves and the inside of my knee. I find foam rolling the calf hard as you have all your weight on it and have to hold yourself up on your wrists, which can be a challenge in it's self.

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/66fit-Trigger-Point-Massage-Stick-White/dp/B0087CLXOK/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1358532309&sr=8-2

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