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Moraghan Training - Stevie G
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Hopefully the weather will be back to normal for you all on Sunday, or at least not windy!
Thanks Bluenose - tell me about the costs! Trust me to pick the most expensive physio in the area -doh!
SG - I've gone ddown the NHS route in the past, and its usually been OK. The thing with this one is the urgency to get it sorted ASAP, and with thebest will in the world, a GP referral is going to take a couple of weeks at least. The ideal is to run the to together so the NHS physios can take over if the treatment needs to go on.
Ironically it feels OK this morning - slightly uncomfortabel but not painful. Without the advice of the physio I might have been tempted to go for a long run on it today to try and shake it off (and who knows whether that would have been OK or put me out of action for months! Sometimes you've got to place your trust in someone..)
I shall recognise the Frome vest, having run in it for years. Well, not your one, obviously. By the way Bluenose, I think Summer was last Tuesday.
Bus, sensible, stay away from the running shoes!
Even worse than that Dachs - he said on Tuesday he wants me to run, at very low intensity, no more than 5 miles and no hills! Where's the fun in that?? I'll be overtaken by old grannies and fat blokes in football shorts!
No hills? Where are you going to do that? Up and down your living room?
An easy paced flat run eh Bus? Would that be your first one ever?
Bluenose, if it goes well on Sunday I'll be glad handing it with as many people afterwards as I can possibly find some vague link to.
If it goes tats up, I'll be hot footing out of that town as quick as possible
ps that's the textbook expression pre and during race isn't it? Usually along with thoughts of this aint going well, this is horrible.
Then you finish, and it was like, that was terrific! Let's go again.
Exactly chaps! Only flat run/jog/shuffle I can do would be from work on the highly exciting streets of Aylesbury! Hey ho - mustn't grumble - there are plenty out there with injuries that mean they can't run at all!
SG - can't say I've often finished a race and thought "that was terrific! Let's go again." !! Not for a few days anyway!
Yeah I suppose that was a little strong.
I think it's more going from "never again", during the race, to starting to look at flyers you get straight after thinking, hmm maybe.
Right, just back! He's very pleased with progress so far, confirmed I can run at low intensity, on or off-road but thinks I need one more session in a week's time before he can commit to timescales for full recovery/ability to race. He says he will give me a gruelling running regime to follow at that point. Hooked me up to a couple of machines, dug around with some weird pointy object and dashed in and out to treat his various other clients in between interesting anecdotes about formula drivers, what a great bloke Steve Ovett is. Certainly didn't think very highly of Coe and Coe senior! When I brought out my list of questions, before I even started asking them, he said "no to the first 3 and yes to the next 5"!!
A strange combination of obvious competency and efficiency, but tempered with brusqueness and idiosyncracy! All a bit weird really.....
You've marvellously summarised why I hate going to such people Bus
The witless small talk, the hanging around, the having to trust that this random stranger has your quickest cheapest recovery in mind, rather than spinning it out to get you paying more!
Hopefully a session more and you're back in the game then.
It's a funny old sport though isn't it, normally even with a niggle you can keep going to some extent.
With footy when i smashed ankle ligaments I couldn't even run for about 6-8 weeks. I can still picture the fear of realising I'd have to be able to risk fully kicking a ball at full power again with an ankle that ached to even flex!
BUS, agree with StevieG excellent summary of the difficulties in seeing a physio. Sounds like a positive outcome and it doesn’t sound like he is ripping you off too much, but I am a novice at such things so I could be showing my own naivety.
This thread moves on at a pace that I will struggle to keep up with, but on reading back one discussion point caught my attention, and that is the short discussion on tempo/threshold running that occurred last night. Like some of the other posters (Johnas, SG) I am a big proponent of it.
For me any race of 5k and up, the runner will benefit from regular tempo running. Be that shorter tempos or cruise intervals at threshold (1 hour race pace) or longer tempos at HMP, MP, or my favourite zone in between HMP and MP. Any breakthrough I have had has usually come off the back of a block of tempo running in one form or another.
I also quite like progressive runs, the good thing for me is you get to hit a few pace zones in one run so a great at getting you fit but also for simulating the increasing load you encounter during racing.
Not done one for a while but before this niggle I am currently suffering with I fully intended to start introducing progressive 10m tempo runs into my schedule. They would consist of a short warm up (2m) then starting at just bellow MP and building the pace down towards HMP. They are great for race peaking, but its also easy to over do them and burn out.
Enjoy the break then SS. My coach runs a Portugal camp in September and I'm seriously considering going as part of my marathon build up to Frankfurt in October. Apparently there's plenty of 'downtime' for me to take the wife but she's not stoopid - she knows it's marathon training masquerading as a holiday!
Good news Bus! As we all know, convenience costs! SG is right with his analysis but for me, finding the right physio has been a blessing. The thing with most our injuries is that it requires lots of input from us - stretching, strengthening, rolling etc. It must be frustrating for a physio that gets the client who does nothing and complains about the frequency and cost and that nothings getting better for them!
YD - Agree with you also abotu mixed paced sessions. I've been doing these a lot in recent weeks - 400m reps sandwiched between MP sessions or last Sundays 30k including threshold running, easy running, and MP too. Got a tasty progressive 25k coming up in next couple of weeks - 10k easy, 5K MP, 5k threshold, 2k fast (5k pace+), 3k jog!
Nice session(s) Iron! When do you get to recover. Fair play to you especially with all the travelling you do. Will you be wearing your pirate vest at Reading?
after a few days off thanks to the dangeous ice & snow covered pavements, did a fartleks session last night: 45 mins to include 3x 3mins,2mins,1min where I tried to dial into a HMP for the weekend.
A lot of physios seem to be anti runners, and you almost feel like you're admitting some sort of terrible crime when saying you do 50-60miles a week.
However, the wiser physios will realise types like us who do that kind of mileage will generally follow any rehab and tips to the letter, rather than the types Johnas rightly mentions above.
Johnas, blimey, slipy icy, snowy pavments, Kent has had it a lot worse than Bucks then!
YD, i'm with you on the tempos. I always feel yeah track reps are nice, but you have your little recovery. For me tempos feel like the "No hiding place" session. Lower paces, but longer makes them in my mind the harder session of the week.
Tomorrow I have 7x300m, which I'm quite looking forward to. It'll be working quite hard, 3k pace, but so short...
Tempo reps are an interesting fusing of the 2! Think the best I ever did was 3miles at HMP, 90secs, 3miles HMP.
I wouldn't fancy doing that again off my new HMP though!
bus - probably not the time for me to mention i get free physio then. well the first 10 appointments of each new injury. they normally cant wait to get rid of people as its on site at work. normally its all solved by ultra sound or massage but they have stuck me with acupuncture before. acupuncture is like voodoo, but seemed to work
First 10 appointments of each injury? So can you just claim a slightly different one each time to get another 10?
Sounds a cracking deal.
Hmm, now I don't know whther to try and get a job at your place Dean, or with johnas and all his models
Annoyingly, I used to get Bupa through work, but that was just one of the many perks that have been taken away in the current economic climate!
As for the physio - totally agree SG! I'm trying to look at it that the cost of 3 sessions, is only about as much as two pairs of trainers and a coupe of pairs of socks
YD - I agree re the tempos. Funnily enough, I used to do an 8.4M regualry whihc was between HMP and MP, and that always seemed to move things on.
I think progression runs are excellent fo HM or marathon distance prep - big problem I've got though , is I live at the top of a hill, so whatvere direction I run from I've got a bllody great hill in the last few miles!
Seems like we escaped the snow for once SG!
Some tasty looking sessions coming up by the looks of things..
can't believe they took Bupa off you. That's so harsh!
I had a work footy tournament abroad back in about 07, and had a slight knee injury (in my head). I panicked ever so slightly, and booked a next day Bupa physio appointment at ridiculous cost.
Sat there and she found no issues, But did ask was I ok, as I was sweating like I was in a furnace.
Went to work the next day, had to come home, shivering like you wouldn't believe. Put 4 or 5 hooded tops on in bed, stil cold.
Next day, chicken pox!
Still went to the footy tournament 10days later, my first day i could move (!), and remember being knackered after 20seconds.
Still scored 2 goals though!!
little random anecdote for the class.
That's a poxy anecdote SG
Even worse - they took my car off me as well
blimey, some severe cost cutting there!
Yep - you should wee what they've done to the actual services!
Wee? I mean see of course!
Very peed off right now! Just tried a very gentle jog. According to the garmin I managed 248ft, before the pain stopped me in my tracks - both in the tendon, and along the sciatic nerve, running down the whole hamstring. Tried a bit of walking to warm it up, then off again, but exactly the same thing.
Hey ho. Swim tomorrow, and will try running again Saturday....
Bus, I'll wish you a speedy recovery.
Doesn't seem quite the right moment to prattle on about one's own training with you being sidelined.
Its like being on the deck of ship, having just seen a crew-mate fall over board, only to get eaten by a shark.
🙂
3 x 8mins off 3mins jog tonight. Felt amazing all day, bounced to the track and had to remind myself to relax on the warm up cos' I just wanted it over with so I could run!
Each rep came out as an average pace of 5:44, 5:43, 5:41. Now before you lot say that's 10K pace... I know. There seems to be a problem with our track. Every time I run it my GPS is out by about 5meters per lap, which then accumulates. This is every time I run there, so not a GPS anomaly. But McMillan says tempos can be 5:45 to 6:03 anyway.
To check I was on pace I went through every lap in 89 seconds, each mile in circa 5:55 - exactly threshold pace. Heart rate was 181 which is roughly 85% effort. Felt really easy tonight, and did 4 maximum pace strides at the end to try and burn off a bit more energy!
Bus, good to see things are already on the up injury wise and you're feeling positive about it.
Ric, Me sub 34...? OK then you're on!
Interesting to read your thoughts on periodisation, something I've become much more interested in. I think that's half the fun of running, constantly dreaming up new slants on training! That and the shiny bright Nikes of course! 
Cheers Ric - the sentiment is very much appreciated. I can understand why sidelined runners feel the need to go AWOL. This thread is bigger than that though - it covers the ups and downs, and the in-betweens and we've all been there. The shark has taken a bite for sure, but I'll battle that bugger off and seeing my hardy shipmates training well will help not hinder (not least to stop me wallowing in unnecessary self pity over something that is actually pretty trivial in the grand scheme of things - as the Mrs keeps telling me
).
Stevie - don't knock it! Convince yourself the track is actually long and your confidence will go through the roof!
Stevie, tracks rarely measure a lap as 0.25miles, even if you stay really tight to the line, as circular is harder to be picked up on the GPS, simple as that.
Don't quite understand with your session, 8mins at 5.43 average for instance, or the mile pace at 5.55 average? Which was it? 5.43 or 5.55? Or did you do the 3mins jog quite fast to only lose the 12 seconds difference?!
Wouldn't have said 8mins at 10k pace with 3mins recovery was too fast at all, sounds quite sensible by some of your stuff's standards
We're all here for you Bus! I know how mard you southern types are, so the northern boys will keep you honest!
SG - the GPS had an average time of 5:41, but I was clocking each 400M at 89 seconds. So either the GPS was out (and has always been out by 5meters per lap, every session) or I was running faster to cover each 89 second lap. So which do i believe? If it had been on the road I wouldn't doubt the GPS and I'd be celebrating a tempo of 5:41 average!
I'll believe the GPS. Woo!
You probably have to go on the 89sec for 400metres reading.
Unless either you were in a higher lane, or your track was shoddily put together
Never really had this problem, as being a non technical type I simply click the watch on a lap, rather than letting any auto lap business kick in,
You can't really go on average pace from a GPS on tracks simply due to the circles not being accurately picked up. Straight and flat on the normal roads however is picked up as accurately as you're going to get.
Cheers Stevie - my northern in-laws don't give me much room for mardiness either!
I think the track 400m is far more likely to be accurate than the GPS when it comes down to the metre level (even the GPS itself will only ever say accurate to about 5-15m), and SG's thought about it measuring curves is proably the reason or it being consistently out. Much harder to believe the measuring wheel they used for the track was wrong TBH.
At the end of the day though, it's what went into your legs that counts more than what the stats tell you!
It wasn't auto lapping I was just ending each lap after 8mins. Was easy to keep an eye on with 6min/miles but multiples of 90seconds per lap.
The track has caused discussion before, the coach sent some kids round with a trundle wheel and it measured 408meters. He then sent some others around and they got 399. Looks like our measuring wheel is busted too!
I have all of a sudden had a desire to run my parkrun on Saturday now... Hmmmm.
Evening all.
So it looks like I need to alternate my run & bike quality weeks. The ptifalls of being self coached
After yesterday's light track session I did a hard interval turbo tonight and I could feel some cramps building but managed to spin it out. Then on the very last interval my LH calf locked solid. After spinning it out I still did my 1km race-pace brick run then had another 10 minute spin to loosen the legs.
I ran 3km at lunch very easy and I wonder if that has anything to do with it, or was it residuals from yesterday? My RH calf felt tight and I tuboed in calf guards and I wonder if they had anything to do with the cramp too?
Johnas - I'm not doing Reading HM, though a few of each of my clubs are. I just did the light session with them
.
SS - I would assume the 400m is along the centre of the inner lane?