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Moraghan Training - Stevie G
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Well IC5inH, This was one of my first ever injuries, though rather than the entire Achilles (creaking away) causing problems, it was more to do with the connection point.
I suspected dehydration is a factor in setting these things off. Your extremities are pretty low on the bodies priorities so if some area in going to be sacrificed its going to be at the ends.
My solution is to smother the problem area in moisturiser which seems to keep things well lubricated. And almost over hydrate. Works well for fixing tendonitis too.
Full hydration is the safeguard to all sorts of problems. Yes, I'm fully able to clank out a 20 miler on a blazing hot day on a thimble full of water. But I'll do more damage than can be recovered from so no point.
The body is only going to clue you in for going low on hydration if the brain is compromised. Super trained muscles don't even register. That's why you have to drink loads even when not thirsty.
Last four days. Race, easy 8m, easy 12m (6:15am start), easy 12m (5:35am start). Generally at warm up, warm down pace.
Tomorrow should be time to give things a dig. Weight dropped from 133lb's to 127lb's in last six weeks. Getting there.
🙂
Don't drop too much weight Ric, from your pics you already look like you should be signed up for the Vet Chippendales such is your "rippedness".
You want to get more hench if anything...or is that another thread!
9 and 4 today. Could feel the stomach muscle ache stronger than for the last few eeks. It came on 6 weeks or so ago, but gradually had worn to not much.
I guess 4.30 pace followed by a morning 9 was always going to give a little jip. Bit tight elswhere.
However...2 sleeps until another run. Glorious!
Ric, you're spot on with the dehydration thing.And it can catch you up at times.We've all had that deep yellow dehydrated whizz before, but has anyone ever had brown? And not related to booze!
I did the other week after a long hot run, and initially i thought "heck is that blood". Once realising it wasn't, I googled it, and it showed all manner of nasty sounding things it could be.
Then I read on...
"or can happen after a long run in the sun"
conclusion..never google symptoms!
You and me, 90s quality. Would have put all these youngsters in their place.
IC, my Achilles was treated by an army doctor and he said run hard on it on hard surfaces and then ice the bejesus out of it afterwards. Warning: this is kill or cure advice as it will either get better or get it so bad it needs to be operated on.
Phil, was it not like Bluey said, simply an accumulation of quality runners in one big race, whereas generally fields are split like a banana these days?
Would a London Bupa 10k, a Leeds or a Manchester 10k not be a better comparison?
Silverstone probably isn't seen as the go to race these days.
I'm getting a strange sense of Deja Vu
Just check back on this thread every 30 pages and you'll have the answer 
14.1 hilly xc in the sun tonight - nice for the first half, but knackered for the 2nd! Stopped my GPS about half-way for a quick pee (dark yellow!), but forgot to set it going again for about another 6 mins or so - doh! I had to sit down just now and work out how far the bit I missed was on some mapping software - great use of time when I should be eating or lying down
So I've drunk 3 bottles of moisturiser and rubbed water in to my Achillles. Job done.
A bit like the heel drops then?I've been doing a few of those too. Maybe I just need to cough up the excess and see the physio.
Bus, I don't think 30 pages would take us back to last week...
Hmmm, maybe 90 pages then
That moisturiser must be hard to keep down....
Normally I'd recommend the physio option, and probably still would - despite the fact that neither of the two I;ve seen recently have done me any good whatsoever for my hamstring issue. Luckily, it's still only really a problem for work or watching telly (ie sitting) rather than running!
Not sure I like the risk involved in Philip's army Doctor's advice (but that's the army for you!). Probably best to see a professional, but choose carefully....
Quick one now, full race report to follow. Interesting night at Yateley. Was well away from my target time with 33:47, but won the race. Can't be too unhappy.
nice one Dachs.
nice one indeed Dachs. If race times were drinks at the bar, 33s would certainly be your "usual" nowadays!
Congratulations on the race Dachs. Much can be done with routine sub 34 min 10k's.
On the hydration theme. Before heading out for the morning run, I've already had at least 3 large mugs of tea and coffee.
On top of that, during the run I'll have another 500ml every 5 or 6 miles. And that's on a cold day.
As for the colour. Anything of noticeable colour indicates damage. Once tried a running tip of having an aspirin before a run. That produced blood (thick yuk!!) so won't be doing that again.
For every day stuff, drinking to 'thirst' is ok. But runners need surplus on board. Muscles for running purposes are a luxury addition which our brain hasn't reckoned on, so doesn't tell us when we falling short of optimum.
That's hard training. Not pain, but concentrating on getting it right.
🙂
Great run Dachs its a good sign that 33s are becoming standard
Great running Dachs! A victory!
Bus a serious distance in this heat on a school night! Hats off to you.
SG, NEVER Google anything health related. I had night sweats for a while on and off, bed soaking (no giggling at the back), so 'Googled' it and it was a symptom of HIV or tuberculosis. I stopped reading!
After my session yesterday I did a 5.4 and was also a little stiff and flat. But it felt nice not to do a 10 as was the norm in the winter on a Wednesday!
Nice one Dachs-looks like you might needto think about investing in a seperate room for the trophies now, never mind a shelf
Thanks Stevie, luckily asmuch of it is in shady Beech woods the sun wasn't too bad. The midweek LSRs are just cos I can't fit them in at the weekends of late.
As far as hydration is concerned, I've swung the other way a bit. I always drink sensibly before and after arun, but no longer take a drink on my long runs. Since doing this, Ive
not had any issues, and oddly, post run recovery seems to be better with less nausea
Stupid tablet! As I was trying to say-it remains to be seen how that holds up when it gets really warm and/or my long runs go significantly over 2 hours.
get the report up Dachs, want to read about who you beat, splits etc, whole kaboodle!
Stevie, that made me laugh..it's funny how many symptoms all the really bad stuff shares with incredibly minor stuff isn't it!
That's why i'm hoping the tight achey stomach/slightly into the groin feeling is just a sign of what happens when you do 1500 pace reps and long runs back to back, rather than a sign of impending massive injury woe
Ric, that's some damage to produce blood! Cripes...
Bus, you're on a tablet? Am I the only one who pens this on a good old laptop these days?
We'll done Dachs, very impressive.
Long distance runners often pee blood due to the empty bladder banging around on itself inside. Can't remember the medical name for it.
Nice result Dachs, super racing.
Stevie, HIV and Tuberculosis at the same time? Hope they've cleared up
A bit of gentle 6 miles for me presently then a 5k time trial on saturday - I take it a park run will do? Not ideal for a time trial but 5k round a grass track isnt either I suppose.
Less of the peeing blood talk - not long since breakfast! Top tip though, is never to forget you had beetroot the night before a race! That last minute pee coming out pink can be quite disturbing when you do
SG - laptop right now, usually a PC, but tablet when I'm still in my bed
Hurry up Dachs!
Ive only passed blood once when I took a whack to the kidneys playing football. Sh@t myself when it happened (not literally).
I've also fell into the trap of googling ailments and it never looks pretty. After I'd been discharged from hospital after having pancreatitis and I was awaiting the results of a scan that I had to go and see an oncologist for. I didn't know what an a oncologist was so looked it up. I then convinced myself that results I was about to get we're going to cash I had cancer. :-/
Were going to confirm I had cancer.
#stupid iPhone
Hi Guys - Advice please
I did my first race last night since 3 November 2012 (other than running 5th leg in BMAF relays alone so basically a time trail, 3 weeks ago)
5 mile road 3 lapper with a steady incline of about 600m on each lap came 9th (1st V45) in 28.20 garmin registered 5.08 miles (5 mile in 27.58) Garmin average mile pace 5.35 but felt very disappointed
I've done 9 weeks of proper training but no specific speed work other than efforts in a longer run.
I feel speed endurance lacking terribly and feeling quite fed up, I've stopped doing track work as I feel this brings on injury issues so I'm looking for thoughts on specific speed work away from the track?
My idea is find straight stretch of road and using garmin do similar sessions to track but control speed more thus avoiding the bends of a track instead of blasting 400's out in 69/70's of 1min recovery drop speed to 75's and aim reduce the recovery to 45 or 30 secs if necessary any comments would be really appreciated
Now now, have some patience!
Right, well, as I said I had a pacing strategy last night and a target time. That target time was sub 33, and the pacing strategy was 3:19 for the first 5 ks to get to halfway in 16:35, and, from there either increasing the pace to 3:17s if I felt like I had it in me, or keep at the pace for a decent PB in the low 33s. I knew sub 33 would be a stretch, but I thought I ought to have a crack at it.
From the off I took the lead, and a group of 3 or 4, including SG's clubmate, tucked in behind. However, the first 2ks were both 3:23s, and felt very much as fast as I should be going in those early stages. Basically, at this point I completely abandoned my time aim, because if I can't hit 3:19 in the traditionally fast early kilometres when it should be easy, I'm not going to be running 3:17s later on.
Still had the lead at 2K, but just after that another bloke came past and opened up at 10-15m lead over me and a couple of others. 3K was 3:22. However, the gap didn't grow from this point, so the next 3km we kept the gap fairly consistent. 4K was much faster in 3:14, trying not to let the leader get away, but it was then another 3:23 to reach the 5K point in 16:45.
The 6th K was another quick one in about 3:16, and suddenly the leader came back to us quite quickly and I went by with at least one other, so I had the lead again. However, from here it seemed to be a case of managed slowdown for just about everyone. I still had at least one person right behind me at 7K (3:25), but by 8K (3:22) I had a 20-30m lead. Surprised to see Graham cheering me on at this point, clearly he'd had a problem somewhere. The final 2K were a grit your teeth job, and just tried to work as hard as I could to secure the win. The last 2 ks were 3:29 and 3:27, so not exactly spectacular, but enough to eventually win by 20 seconds. Completely shattered at the end, but the announcer seemed disappointed I wasn't fist pumping in the home straight, so I mustered a half-hearted raising of the arms. Official time now 33:48.
In hindsight, sub 33 was probably never quite on the cards, and if I were to get it, it would need to be a superfast course with faster runners around me. I can go fast at Yateley, but I would need all the stars to align. Winning the race is a pretty good consolation prize, as Yateley always has a good standard for a midweek local race, so 6 under 35 yesterday. It was also enjoyable to be following a pace car with electronic clock for the first time, made me feel like some kind of elite.
SG, as to who I beat - looks like there was an Aldershot, Farnham & District group just behind me, some good runners amongst that.
Felt rotten once I got home, so at least I know I gave it my all.
great report Dachs. Am always amazed people can rememer their races in such detail. You're in a great place for the start of marathon training.
RobT - the guys here will probably start yawning but they all know my thoughts on the session you're after - threshold intervals (wake up at the back!). So, I've a 10k next week so my threshold session tonight (I do them every Thursday) is 7 x 5 mins @ threshold with the last 2 at 10k pace (60 sec recoveries between each interval).
Other suggestions:5x 5mins @ threshold (60); 6x 5mins @ threshold (60); 5x 6mins (90); 6x 6mins (90) or alternatively just a good 20 min tempo/threshold will work wonders.
Johnas define threshold please?
Good report Dachs. I was behind the clock car once (well clock milk float to be precise!) but it only lasted for about 0.25M!!! Sounds like you are a bit disappointed with not getting closer to 33, but given your meteoric improvement it'll come in good time, and you're already winning races now!
Rob - if the shorter reps are causing a tendency to injuries, then similar to Johnas, I would move to longer ones such as 800s/0.5M or more. Slightly less potentially damaging pace, but still very productive. I use a straight stretch of cycle route for mine, with a very slight incline, so sligthly different pace in each direction for the same effort.
at Perceived effort it's 3 or 4 word conversation pace or 'controlled discomfort'
But most people put it at the pace you can hold for an hour.
McMillan (based on your 5 mile result) would put it at 5.37 - 5.51 per mile.
Like Bus, I do mine on a long straight flat road. The difference is between Bus and few others here, is they do theirs by distance and I do mine by time.
aiming for a sub 33 Dachs? that's a huge aim, maybe you need to try that in a bigger event. or maybe the extra adrenaline of leading helps?
Checked the results, and did wonder which of my teammates was up with you early on, as the first 2 I found were 38min men! That'd be overcooking it to a level even I'd struggle to match!
Did Graham definitely start? He'd have given you a right good race, as he did 33.59 at the Bupa 10k that most others seemed to come out a good 30+secs slower at...That might have taken you down the 33s further.
What you missed from your report, was that the chap in 2nd has a great name
Sorry, I was referring to Graham. He did start and was there with me (I believe) until about 5k.
Well, I had done 33:27 at Shinfield, and I did feel from my paces in training that I had a low 33 in me at least. My plan would have meant setting off at 33:10 pace and re-assessing whether sub 33 was doable at 5K, so that pace would have been a 17 second PB - quick, but not ridiculously so.
Ultimately, as I say, I knew it would be a stretch. But I've only ever gone into races with very realistic/conservative aims before, and I fancied seeing whether a more optimistic approach would work out for me. I'm clearly not in that shape yet, but I've made good progress this year, so I'm not that disappointed. It's still good to be consistently going sub 34 - when I first broke 35 last year, one of the disappointments was only being able to repeat that in one out of four subsequent races.
i'd forgotten the sub 33.30 in fairness! So agreed, the next target is natural, unless you start going 10/15sec margins!
Certainly quickly moves on from the time getting under a number once is a massive achievement doesn't it. That becomes the standard.