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Moraghan Training - Stevie G
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You lost me there Bus, but I eventually twigged what you meant. Some reference to some TV program.
Good session there Bus. Faster than race pace or at least a pace you cannot maintain for long.
Having said that, there's a place for sub maximal paces if only to fill in some untrained physiological gaps.
Where the training becomes blurred is where training runs are too intensive for recovery but not intensive enough to get an adaptive response. That's junk mileage.
🙂
Some TV programme - this is "The A Team" we're talking about Ric! Pure class (well of a sort anyway
).
Definitely much faster than race pace (unless I was thinking of doing a mile!), but done to add variety to the weekly session and to get a bit of leg speed going as much as anything. For me though, junk mileage is any running that doesn't serve a training purpose OR you don't enjoy!
Bit of slight discomfort after is all Rob, but no worse than when I've done an easy run of the same distance. Must admit, it's a long time since anyone has shouted "run Forrest, run" after me, but there was a time it was a regular thing!
Evening all.
Good morning IC.
Impressive running Dean, Rob, Johnas. Makes me think I might be able to manage part of those sessions, as a race.
Bus, your interpretation of 'junk' can lead to confusion. Good training (optimal) works for the objective (faster race). Junk training (miles) works against.
Enjoyment has nothing to do with it. Junk is junk. Quality training is about eradicating the rubbish.
🙂
No, you need to train the mind as well as the body. If every session is a grind you won't do as well as if you have some fun sessions.
Absolutely, and enjoying a session will also help you feel positive about your running, which in turn will help you run better and more often (unless you are a dedicated masochist of course!).
My miles this morning however, probably count as junk - tired legs, feel like lergy coming on and the cold and fog meant it was hardly enjoyable. Still, had to get to work somehow an it burnt a few calories!
i have never really understood junk mileage. i guess miles for the sake of miles. so if my training was about hitting 3000 mlies per yr and i did them all at 12 min miling i guess they would be worthless to me for a 800m.track race.
but where there is a percieved effort and has some relevance (even if its recovery of body or mind) then i figure its got a place.
I've always thought 'junk miles' was one of those doesn't-really-mean-anything phrases they make up to write articles in the magazine about. Not as annoying as 'mental toughness' though.
I've been told to cut out junk miles as I might as well go for a good walk. I've been encouraged to try for next 6 weeks and see what happens, he did point out it's tough keeping even your easy/recovery at a strong pace but i'm reassured it will be worth it in the end. If I'm really tired my body via HR will soon slow me down.
RicF - Just wanted to know what you would class as junk miles as this is something I've thought about a few times, on the sample below which runs would you cut out/class as junk when training for my 10k.
M - Rest
T - Track (2m warm up, 4m speed, 2m cool down)
W - 8m 7.30ish pace
T - Tempo run or longer intervals as recommended here (2m warm up, 4m speed, 2m cool down)
F - 6m morning (8ish pace), 6m evening (6.50ish pace)
S - 7m hilly route working up hills recovering down
S - 12m long run (7.30 pace)
I've never really known what people class as junk and what they don't, is junk any easy run that isn't your long Sunday run?
lodan. Looks pretty good to me.
Tempo runs for me are both junk and good training. It depends where I am in the cycle. If low on miles and basically unfit, then they are good. If the mileage and fitness levels are high, then they become junk.
Too fast for recovery but too slow to trigger an adaptive response. A firm favourite of those who simply like a great 'blow out'.
I'd stick to long intervals but would limit the time to three minutes.
6:50 evening run I'd slow down or just put in accelerations.
Everything else, fine.
I wouldn't bother to come out with all this stuff if I hadn't tried it all out first.
A guy I knew who called his 4th place in the English National XC, "A crap run", ran all his steady miles at 7:30 pace. He reserved his fast running for sessions and races. Sub 14 minute 5000m standard.
Personally, I never found any session a grind. After all, I don't have to do them, its my choice.
🙂
Junk miles, for me, are when you have had a hard session and then go and do a 7 mile recovery. 7 miles is not going to help the recovery any more than 4 or 5, it is just miles added to get the total up. Also doing a longer than needed warm up, or cool down. Junk is racing a half and then running 5 afterwards to make it an 18: it isn't 18: it is a good 13 and junk 5. Each run should have a purpose and be part of a plan. If there is no purpose and no plan, even if that is to have a nice run on a sunny day, then it is junk.
Phil, you have just defined junk miles. In fact I've half a mind (all I have) to print that off and have some fellow engrave it, in bronze.
Now we're on the subject of junk miles, it seems a suitable link to my own running of late.
Limited mileage due to a suspect ankle has become limited mileage because I prefer at the moment to do all the recovery (under 120 bpm HR) on the bike.
Warm up as well to some extent. Anyway I went out intending to do another set of 40 seconds fast, 20 seconds recovery, but couldn't really get around to starting.
Mind you, if someone I know happens along, I'll stop running to have a chat, even in the middle of a repetition. I always stop. No question.
This time I did start and only stopped for a chat once. It was the guy who got me running in 1987 so good reason. The session ended up being an exercise in correct race pace. Good job I did it. I was way out.
My original pace/tempo ensured I blew up after one minute. Slow down the next try. Blew up again. And again. Finally I worked out that the correct speed felt like about 3/4 effort. Lucky I've only a short relay leg on Sunday.
🙂
bus, any plans for a parkrun Saturday? I have a tupperware I need to pass back to Mrs bus.
I find phils description of junk miles to make a lot of sense.
track Thursday for me: 6*400 target 65 secs off 400 jog rec.
they came out 64, 65, 63, 63, 64, 62.
coach could see me getting to 200 in 30 secs and then deliberately slow down to make sure the first few were 65 ish. so from rep 3 onwards he said to keep the intensity on and bring them in 63/64. really enjoyed this session. nice to be hitting a 62 in march.
Great session Dean I agree really encouraging to be hitting that speed in mid March
I did 2nd 45 min threshold in 2 days covered 12.1k ave pace 5.58 ave HR 158
Easy 4 + strides tomorrow then Northern 12 stage long leg Saturday should be interesting on tired legs
Ah yes - my lunch box
Not this weekend though Philip. I'm off to the wilds of north Yorkshire for an FRA navigation weekend tomorrow. Looking forward to it; hard work, but fun ( I hope!) weather forecast is perfect - freezing cold, high winds and lots of hill-fog and mist! Ideal conditions for learning how to get un-lost. Just hope this lergy doesn't get any worse....
Scorching 400s Dean, and impressive threshold Rob (as usual!). Good luck on Saturday and anyone else who is racing over the weekend.
I think the longer reps for my second speed session each week were a very good idea.....did 5x5mins with 75seconds recovery and they came out at 5.57, 5.59, 6.12, 6.17, 6.09. Felt really winded in the middle so obviously a lot of speed endurance missing....really enjoyed the session though doing something a bit different so thanks for the suggestion Johnas. I think I might be a little way from PB form.
DeanR7 - I did a 400m race for my club a couple of years ago when I was in full fitness...I got 59 seconds and was pleased as punch with that for breaking 60 secs...you were only 3 seconds off that with one of your reps....what is your 400m race PB if you don't mind me asking...you must be seriously quick.
RobT: those threshold sessions are looking very tasty. will be interesting to see how you go in the relays..
a good session Lodan, as you say just need to flatten the ups and downs but for a first go at it some good paces there.
cheers, i havent raced a flat out 400m since i was 14 or so but last yr in the Vets league in the space of about 50 mins i raced an 800m, 3000m and a leg of the 400m relay after. the 400 was timed at 56 secs. im planning on racing a 400m at stretford open this summer as i have to work on my speed if im to keep up with the top v40s over 800m. they are mostly sprinters moving up a distance where i have come down from half marathons.
15m done this morning in 7.08 ave.
You'll make a good long distance runner one day when you get those silly sub 2 800 dreams out your head
Getting set for the Southern 12 stage tomorrow. Tried out a warm up/ starting procedure which came out better than expected. All I need to remember to do is not race from the start.
One result due to the 'forum' is that a lad posting as a 'newby', was in fact, one of my clubs lapsed youngsters. Obviously, I had a word. He's rejoined the club after more than three years away and is in the team.
400m.
Had a relay involving that distance after a 5 mile race. I had run 27:20 that day and the nearest in my club to me had just scraped 30 minutes.
Five of them broke 60 seconds. I blew up after 200m despite only getting there (I was told) in 31 seconds.
Like thousands like them, they found they had a bit of speed and milked it for all they were worth. Once they realised that to progress, would involve some work, they sulked off.
🙂
Bit quiet on here! Where's SG? gas he a race lined up or is he injured?
Cracking reps the others at Dean.
Had my first taste of the northern 12 stage today. I was on a long leg which was 5.5 miles and 2 laps pretty much of the short legs. Parked up in Heaton park and straight away I spot RobT having a jog. never met him until last week and then see him twice in 6 days!
decided to just walk up into the park as I hadn't a clue where to go and spotted a familiar looking chap stood on his own waiting for the passing women runners. Surely not I thought, so I walks ten yards past him and thought I'll wait til he shouts his words of encouragement then I'll get my phone out for a selfie once I know it's definitely him. Haha. He shouts, I start going for my phone and before I can get it set up, off Steve Cram goes jogging away to get to another vantage point. I'm stood there and get a video of about 6 seconds as he goes running away! Wounded!
Had a jog round the course but had plenty of time to spare as I was on leg 9
The course had a long straight which swept into a decent climb to the right, it then dropped down a long hill which turned sharply on itself and with a strong headwind it was into a long climb back up to the top. A bit of flat running led into a little steady rise up then it was an undulating course back towards the first climb. Short legs turned off at that point whereas the long legs did another lap before rejoining the long home straight to the finish.
I took over with us in 7th place with a Sheffield hallamshire runner a good 2/300metres In front and after the first lap I'd just edged past him. I heads down the long descent where instead of turning the screw I relaxed and he tucked in. Up the long ascent then and I'm his wind break but as we hit the top I open a gap of 10m or so, I keep the effort in and up the other bit of a climb I get 20/30m on him. Job done I thought.
I can feel the tiredness kicking in and try to keep on the button, must be a mental thing I'm doing at the minute as over the next mile or so he gains and as we head into the final 800m we're neck and neck. I kicked first and got a couple of metres but he then responds and over the last 400m or so he takes about 30/40m out of me. Im pussed off as if I've taken 2/300m out of him over the course there's no way he should be out sprinting me to the line.
Whether I've lost a turn of pace that I thought I had (the coach at my club fancied me as a 8/1500m runner last summer when doing the short track stuff, he even shouted before the sprint that I should remember them sessions) or if it's a mental thing but even once I'd opened the gap I never turned the screw to kill him off. Lessons learnt I suppose. I need to include more short stuff in my track sessions and also some proper threshold/tempos again. Finished in 30.20. Not bad on a tough course in the wind. Held 7th spot and gained on the team I front. Finished as 9th team so qualified for the nationals.
Got a bit of a sore foot now too. Very similar to the one I had over a year ago where it's sore to weight bare. More between the bones in my foot. Hopefully something and nothing. All in all a cracking day, watching the elites in action etc.
Good racing Matt. Don't worry about the head to head with the other bloke who knows what odd tactics he was using.
16 for me at 6:48 average. Didnt intend to do anything quick, but felt good so ended with 5 at 6:17 average including a 5:58 at the end. It's coming back I hope.
Good training by others. Johnas seems to have picked up exactly ehere he left off
Evening all.
A week in cold Boston, where running and cycling were limited to the gym;can't let the cold air get to me
Something like -10C on the way to work the other morning.
I'm now in San Francisco, where after a leisurely drive to the hotel I sat by the pool drinking beer in the hot hot sun. Didn't bring a running hat or a vest. Bad packing! Should be somewhere about 24C tomorrow. With luck I can run outside
That's a fair contrast Iron!
No run for me today. my foot feels exactly the same as last night, sore. Seems very similar to the foot trouble I had in 2012, the difference then being I ran 20 miles on it trying to bank one last long run before Chester marathon and I ended up not being able to run for 6 weeks. Must've been the downhills yesterday, hammering my foot into the ground.
Hopefully a more sensible approach this time round
The relays are funny beasts matt, it will probably make more sense when you power of 10 stalk him. Great run though.
dachs, great session...building confidence back up.
seb. Not sure if you saw the inters on skysports yesterday. As it was highlights only we didn't get any coverage this yr but you were clearly visible at the start when Jon rigeon introduces the race.
45mins for me today in 6.45 ave.