Moraghan Training - Stevie G

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  • Thanks for the heads up Philip about the race. Will enter soon.

    Dachs, I am on leg 2. My team will be down loads of places by then so it give me a chance to overtake. 

    Stevie, I never cut the course because I actually had to come back on myself as I missed my turn. I was running like Mo along the Thames so that might explain the fast time.

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭

    Samir, the 31mins for 10k already looked unlikely, but now you're saying you did a minute or so in the wrong direction, and then back?

    You need to get a road time on the board, see what we're dealing with.

    Bus be careful, there's having my mid term tightnesses, but pain itself is a big step up!

    10miles today, 7.02job. Felt a little wiped out after, but then sometimes you forget that 7am isn't the peak time to run always!

  • I didn't know that Mo Farah's twin brother was a burglar. LOL. 

    Stevie, all will be revealed at the Aldershot relays. Dachs can be my witness. Besides, it was 10.5k in 33:32 with a minute lost so let's say 32:32 for 10.5k. My 10k PB is still 34:45 so who knows. I may have stepped up.

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭

    it'd be the most monumental step up ever, to go from 34.45 to the equivalent of a 31min 10k, without anyone around you, with offroad sections, and with gates to open!

  • DachsDachs ✭✭✭

    You don't need a witness Samir, the course is measured and accurate, and your time will be directly comparable in the results against dozens of the South's best runners. We'll have a fair idea of where you stand after this.

    10.5k in 32:32 would probably indicate being able to run about 18:30 - 18:40 for the 6K on the Aldershot course (it's hilly, so it's hard to get much faster than 10K pace - at least I couldn't last year).  That would be a very tasty time indeed.

  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭

    Alas, I won't be running at Aldershot this year. Best I ever managed was 21:58 in a rain storm.

    Its the start that really does you in. Uphill for long enough to put you right into trouble, you have to be really fit to recover from it.

     

    🙂

  • I preferred that post the first time Ric image

    You are right though, I've never been very good at taking advice - I'm too pig-headed for my own good! It's one of the reasons why I've never had a coach. That said, I didn't run yesterday when you all told me not tooimage

    Run went OK at lunch though. Just 4 easy, flat miles at about 8mm pace to see if warming it up would help. It felt OK when running, but just the same after, so overall neutral. Certainly won't be racing on Sunday though. I've been here before with this one!

  • Are we in for another huge anti climax Samir? I no doubt you'll have improved, and improved significantly but to say your a sub 32 10km man is silly. You need to be running your 5km time from 5 months ago 1 minute quicker then double the distance (twice) regardless of "talent" clearly not as evident in you as I have seen other runners coming through this year that is nearing impossible - takes time to get to that level. We like the banter and pavement PBs but isn't it time to be a little realistic? It's been a year now posting here since the last Ealing HM...



    Having said that - I'm intrigued about you mixing it up with the big boys, you're bound to have someone to latch onto running leg 2 and with a few others running it will be make for good comparisons





    Glad the run BUS was ok...



    Not sure what leg or I ran at aldershot and looking at po10 it was April time and 12 stage - don't know what this one is? It's different - and I ran 14 minutes something so couldn't be 6km image
    Pain is weakness leaving the body
  • DachsDachs ✭✭✭

    Scott - let's just reserve judgement until Samir runs.

    This is the SEAA 6-stage relays, feeding into the National 6-stage relays.  I don't know about 12 stage relays at Aldershot - was it a while ago?  The 12-stage SEAA relays in spring are now in Milton Keynes I think?

    The Aldershot course has loops all over the place, so they can make it up into all manner of distances.  I think the youngsters run shorter legs for instance.

  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭
    The Bus wrote (see)

    I preferred that post the first time Ric image

    You are right though, I've never been very good at taking advice - I'm too pig-headed for my own good! It's one of the reasons why I've never had a coach. That said, I didn't run yesterday when you all told me not tooimage

    Run went OK at lunch though. Just 4 easy, flat miles at about 8mm pace to see if warming it up would help. It felt OK when running, but just the same after, so overall neutral. Certainly won't be racing on Sunday though. I've been here before with this one!

     

    Perhaps you did. But on reflection I considered it an insensitive joke.

    I've never had a coach either Bus, but that's because 999 coaches out of 1000 haven't a clue about over coming set backs such as injury. All most do is set sessions and anyone can make those up.

    Even adding rest days doesn't mean much. They are not you. They cannot possibly know how well you have recovered from previous sessions or adapted. Its just guess work. Cue the (MycoachisaGod brigade)

    The test of any training/re-hab is how you compare the following day. If you are worse, then you have to stress less. Sometimes less becomes nil.

    Once you hit nil, you count the days until the pain stops. Then you double it before you start all over again.

    Only consolation is that your body is recovering and adapting for 18 months after you've apparently given up. Bones, tendons and ligaments all stronger.

    12 weeks of conditioning. Another 12 weeks getting fit. Then race time.

    I've done this on several occasions.

    Takes time, which is why I'm so determined not to sod myself up in the first place.

     

    🙂

  • Wool wrote (see)

    sounds sensible Phil - I'm sure your pacing in the 1st mile will see you well below sub 60 pace though!

    Wool, my pacing seems to work for me. I have a plan which is fast start, easy for the middle and then push for home. This means I work hard for two thirds of the race whereas a lot of people who pace it more evenly only work hard for a third or half the race. It is no coincidence that people who close in on me in the middle third seldom manage to convert the closing in into a win.

    Birthday today, 49th, had a nice 13 miler at lunchtime. Some odd chap wished me "Happy bidet son" on facebookimage

  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭

    Happy birthday Phil, and congratulations on forcing WAVA up another notch.

    Word of advice about preparing for the V50's. Don't.

    Every guy I've seen ramp things up for the age group has come unstuck about a year in at best.

    🙂

  • Ric, my plan is to try and stay at about 80% WAVA so when 50 that is 63 dead for 10 miles and at 59 it is 68, a full 5 minutes slower. I won't do anything specific at V50 but will play the stats game and the best chance of getting V50 prizes is to race them when you are 50 and not 59

  • Dachs - Was well back in 2008.. I think it was even snowing / frozen over there from memory when I ran... Looked up results and ran short leg and was the 12 stage...

    So unrelated to this 6 stage relay then! 

    Happy birthday Phillip

    Pain is weakness leaving the body
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭

    Happy bday Phil, if you pick wisely you can bag a whole erm bag load of V50 prizes every week.

    Not quite the same thing, but at Marlow we had a couple of women who would literally win a V60 prize every single race they did. One of them was even our women's club champion for a year or 2, which wasn't quite right! But fair play to her!

    The genes run in the family, as her daughter has a 1hr 19 half

  • ML84ML84 ✭✭✭
    Happy Birthday Phil! I'm on leg one of the northerns. Looking forward to seeing the back of a lot of heads. image
  • DachsDachs ✭✭✭
    Happy birthday Phil! More valuable WAVA points, I know that's your ultimate birthday present.



    Threshold session at the track tonight - 4 x 3k with 600m recovery. Last time I did this session (January) I averaged about 10:17s and was reasonably happy. Tonight it was 10:05, 10:06, 10:02 and 9:57. I'll take that.
  • Happy birthday Philip imageimageimage Enjoy your last year of (relative)youth!

    Dachs - not surprised you'd "take that"! Bloody impressive session for sure!

    Ric - it didn't seem insensitive to me, just correct and amusing! Advice is freely given and always welcome on this thread - even if not always taken on board! As it happens, I totally agree with you about the re-hab, but maybe not about trying to maintain fitness with cross training - I can only see benefits in this. Horses for courses I guess though.

    My problem is I am just too impatient and whilst I can wait for the pain to stop (just!) I can never hold off for the same time again to allow a proper recovery! 

     

  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭

    Bus, while carrying my own long term overuse injuries (five lasting six to 18 months) I did a lot of cycling to keep fit. However, I found the cycling club culture too bloody weird for comfort, so never got in to it.

    Then again, I don't mind 'not exercising'. I'm physically lazy, which I have to work against. And not exercising for me is really easy. If I didn't run or train, after a week I've forgotten about it. 

     

    As for patience. That's what hard training really is, having the patience to do the right thing.  

    🙂

  • I know what you mean about cycling clubs image One look at the etiquette on their websites gives a big hint and, besides, my bike would never pass muster! That's why I usually ride solo or with a mate occasionally. It also helps that where I live is good cycling country and I can do it to work.

    Patience AND common sense Ric - neither of which are my strong points image

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭

    Dachs, that's just a mad idea of a session. Who on earth does 3k reps? Is that a coach? Or do you just make odd stuff up. Heck of a pace though, surely that isn't as "slow" as threshold pace anyway, meaning you have a remarkable ability to monster yourself in training.

    Ah cycling clubs. My old clubs idea to breathe life into the ailing running club, was to ...erm...set a cycling part of the club up, and have them meeting at the same time!

  • DachsDachs ✭✭✭

    SG - it's my own session and I did it alone.  it's not that mad - the reps are longer and total 12K but they're run at threshold pace, so not the all-out burn-up of V02 max training, and feeling pretty comfortable to begin with. I could have raised the pace at any point if necessary, which I think is how it's supposed to feel. 

    Whilst I will admit to having squeezed the pace in the last 600m of the last rep, everything else was definitely threshold pace. Jack Daniels has the Lactate Threshold Zone for me off a 15:42 5K as being between 5:12 and 5:31 (yes, the 5:12 looks a little strong, but I was well shy of that last night), whilst the McMillan 'tempo intervals' zone is 5:16-5:24.

    Doesn't mean I'm going to run a 10 mile race at that pace though.

  • **...blunders into thread...**

    All right Samir!!!  image 

    I hear there will be quite an RW turn-out at the relays this Sunday at Aldershot.  Bloody marvellous!  For the record, I'm running in the Vets' race earlier in the day (leg 3 out of 4) but certainly hanging around for the main event, since we have three teams out for that one.  I ran 20:00 dead last year but my course PB is 19:51 and I'll be hoping for a tad quicker this year.  For context my recent 10k track PB is 32:51.  So a few benchmarks there for Samir to work to.  I don't want to hear any excuses about dodgy surfaces, hills going on longer than you thought they would, or the waft of Highgate Harriers' barbecue hampering your breathing on the penultimate turn before the finish.

    Scott - I'm just guessing here, but I know that the course they currently use for the women's relays at Aldershot (I'm going along to watch ours run on Saturday) is just under 4k, maybe it was this course you ran??

    And a belated "pleased to meet you" to PMJ.  Well run at Maidenhead, and all the best for CP.  Loved that race a couple of years ago, even if I did have a XC race in my hamstrings from the day before.

  • Think I might be missing something but isn't this a classic threshold (cruise) interval session. I tend to alternate a straight off threshold run (4 or 5 miles) one week with the threshold intervals the next. This is usually, 6 x 1 miles, 3 x 2 miles or eventually 2 x 3 miles). I usually run them at McMillan tempo interval zone and though this is a hard session it doesn't leave me too knackered the next day.

  • Whoops x-post with Dachs!

  • Sounds about right.  Maybe it sounds like a brutal session because the distances are so much longer than you'd normally do when you're on the track.

  • Given no drop off in the interval times it would suggest that there is no reason this shouldn't be the 10 mile race pace. I have found the 3 x 2 miles is a good indicator so 4 x 3k would appear even better.

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    I can only equate it to doing a 2mile rep at 10k pace on a track.which was off pace by end of lap 1. My normally very good prep of fuelling and rest was completely off the day before, late night and hardly eating. Am sure its have still been hard if fresh though.



    And that's one rep, not 4!
  • Dachs - that is one crazy session to run on track - YUK as my daughter would say image I would have said being honest you could / should be running them slightly quicker given your 5 + 10km time but you said threshold pace so you would probably agree?



    PP- possibly! I would remember it if I ran it again but unlikely!



    Max - I used to run 5/6 x mile (90s) and 3x2m (3:00) at between 5-10km pace.. I did see the small discussion the other day about this.. I would fancy 5 x 1 mile at 5km pace with 90s is tough but do able.. Having said that I openly said I was pretty much at a plateau when I PBd for 5km because I was doing sessions like that but nothing shorter and faster so wouldn't have expected to run quicker, but my then 10km time after a few weeks doing those session was actually ran just slightly quicker than the 3x2 rep session
    Pain is weakness leaving the body
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