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Moraghan Training - Stevie G
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Cheers Scott. Had about 7-8 weeks off and to be honest lost most my base work and it didn't happen over 5km. Ran a couple of okay 1500m though so the speed was there so wasn't a complete waste of a season. Sorry to hear about your injury!
Just over 10 weeks now until I'm a V50 roll on 2015
Anyone doing Northern 6 stage tomorrow?
What do people think about 60 min Threshold, 45 min threshold and then a speed session 3 days on the bounce? Dachs trying to deflect for you
Max - fully agree. "that looks a tough session i wont do it and do some 800s or a steady run instead" wouldnt wash with any of the coach's i have ever had.
Rob - the damage a man of your pace could do in that age category is frightening. surely one of the top v50s around. is that aston an early birthday present? Oh and yes that 3 day training session is mental!
Dean, Yes hope so, Yes ref. AM and Yes to training
Thanks Rob, the deflection is much appreciated!
That a man verging on V50 status could even consider doing those 3 days in a row is pretty impressive in itself. I think you probably already know the answer to your question though. I can't imagine there are many people who could do 60 minutes threshold outside the context of a 10-mile race, let alone follow up with two further hard days. I couldn't do the 45 minutes threshold in training, and certainly not the 60. If you can, I'd question whether it's true threshold pace.
Dachs as I'm now working to HR then the answer is yes but as you rightly say if I'm feeling fatigued pace may not be as sharp as if a one off threshold.
I was being a bit tongue in cheek as I've only done this 3 times in the last 6 months normally it's a 45 min threshold followed by speed session !
When I did do it came out on both threshold runs at 5.52 pace then 5*1k Ave 3.08!! but that was a few weeks before my 5K "Old fart" PB
I am doing 2 thresholds per week and 1 speed session but not necessarily back to back at the moment
OK, so in that scenario 'threshold' pace is coming out more like what would be your theoretical marathon pace. It makes a bit more sense now. Are you training for anything in particular? Because if you are aiming for anything shorter than half marathon, I'd be tempted to shorten those threshold runs and make them faster (5:30-5:40).
Great session too Dachs. Near as dammit that Cardiff will be a big PB. I'd be wrapping myself in cotton wool til race day.
Max, I had 3/4 goes at the 3x2 mile session last year before I had a big PB at Leeds. It was on a treadmill though and looking back it was what I eventually averaged for the race. There was no gradual progression up to it, I just had a bash at it after being injured and repeated it for 3/4 weeks if I remember right to try and get some endurance in my legs. Came up trumps for me.
Apparently my true threshold pace is 5.41 based on last lactic threshold test!! I think I'm still adapting to the training because all my other stuff easy/recovery pace is coming out around 6.30ish so feel I'm running a bit fatigued most of the time. 60-65 mile per week all under 6.30ish is tough for an old bugger !!
I'm really preparing for next year as a V50 but would like to run a good 10k in November then knuckle down to a strong winter's training ready for early spring racing
and try and stay injury free!!
Nice to drop in on the proper training group again - alhtough the last time was probably a year ago!
Saw Aldershot mentioned - I'm a frustrated V40 stuck in the Seniors, especially after Herne Hill had won the V40 for about 7 years in a row..typical..
Anyway, any times in mind? Me and Phil Pub are looking for sub 19.30 - did 19.23 once out of the blue a few years back. Bloody tough course though, totally buggered at the end of it...
Has the Southern relays always had a vets race? we don't have that in the Northern version!!
Popped in for a look and I see that there's a JonnyD v Samir smackdown on Sunday
Looking forward to that one, though Samir seems to have gone quiet since Jonny announced he was on the same leg (though he could be busy having a crack at one of his teachers I guess).
Dachs - if 3km reps were good enough for Wanjiru......... I suspect you won't need to worry about a National Relays/Cardiff clash, but you never know next year if we can persuade everybody to put it in their calendars
SG - what injury have you had that has taken so long to come back from?
Yep - starts about an hour earlier! Good to watch as you are arriving for the main event. Shame it was moved to Sunday though, much prefer saturday..
Welcome Simon - think I saw on the list that you were at PP's 5000 in Ladywell last week as well. I was in the B race.
Re time targets, I think I'll head of at 3:15 pace and see whether I can hold it. That would bring me in at 19:30, but I suspect I will drop off that pace at some point. I'd be quite happy with 19:45.
TT - looks like Wanjiru only did 3 x 3000, so I'm already 33% better than he was. Jurassic!
I haven't saved any splits info from my previous Aldershot times, so I think I'm best off ignoring the watch, starting quick and trying to hold on, as usual! One of our guys ran the quickest V40 leg last year in 19:39 (before running 2:32 at Berlin Marathon seven days later
) so that's an odd little target for me. And beating Dachs, of course. 
Simon - You're in the wrong club. Not enough fast old gits!
One of those super frustrating tightness niggles, that I can only imagine came from overdoing ab exercises months back. Could always run through it, and a good 50+ miles a week, but cut out everything fast.
Now I'm back to re-adding some faster bits, but every day the hamstrings are still tight and need a lot of stretching to unlock.
Not sure it'll ever go to be fair, but I'll keep the faith!
Has led to one of those re-evaluating things times!
good luck to all for any races/relays this weekend. Might turn out somewhere myself.
Very busy today I see.
Dachs, now that you've put the reasoning that way, you're correct. You're already operating at very near your optimal limits, as against taking a short cut.
Reminds me that my own best improvements came from very subtle tweaks over many weeks, not gut busters. Re-boot for me needed.
Aldershot Road Relays then. Didn't think this was on for me.
I'd told the team manager I wasn't running, he didn't put my name forward to be entered, never had any indication from the club that I was going to be involved, so assumed I wasn't running. Wrong!
The upshot is, I'm entered. Seems I always was.
My missus will take the lad to Bath Uni while I do something more important.
Races are days where you hope for a good result but accept that it might not be your day. Road relays are an opportunity to die with blood in your boots.
🙂
I'd back you in a head to head Dachs
SG - sounds frustrating. Have you seen a chiropractor to rule out any back issues causing the tight hamstrings? Your abs exercises could have caused something to go amiss in your back if your form was off. It seems unlikely to say "Not sure it'll ever go" though, but I can appreciate how it seems that way from my own past experiences.
TT, couple of Oesteo appointments, but my overriding feeling with these type of people is that it'll take 100s of appointments for what can only be a minor thing, if i can still do such big mileage!
I can't be sitting there having some geezer telling me i'm "very tight" (yes I'd noticed mate, that's why im here), doing a back click, and waggling legs around, all for £32 a short appointment.
Couple of NHS physio appointments too. One gave me a magnificent deep hamstring stretch that massively helped my motion, and one basically said, what you're doing is right, but how about taking up another sport as well, and watch out for Arthritis in 20 years!
So vaguely, it's following the Moraghan outline, but currently outside of his coaching as I'm not confident i'd stand up to it, and every so often testing the intensity, MP runs, parkrun, relay, and this week some kind of race, but with no kind of direct contrast to past (borderline) glories
SG, for what it's worth, when I was seeing the osteo it turned out that he was only dealing with the symptoms and not the underlying cause. Once I went to see a chiro instead things really started to get fixed. It did take quite a few sessions in my case, but that was because I had had this for a few years. A work colleague sees him and assures me that isn't the norm unless it's a chronic condition (which yours doesn't sound like).
Osteos are good for fixing you for a race, but not for longer term....
8M road for me today. All went OK, just mild discomfort toward the end, but much better than earlier in the week. Actually felt quite strong after the break!
Tried some new shoes today - Inov 8 Road Extreme 208s. Although slightly heavier than stated (220g, UK 7.5) they were great. Very comfortable straight out of the box and quite plush for a light, low profile racer but the most impressive thing was the grip on wet, smooth tarmac - like glue! Ideal for something like Marlow Half in the wet! You can pick them up for less than £40 in Sportshoes.com (no, I'm not on commission
).
Total running medical intervention since 1987: 1989 physio x 2.
1991 physio x 1. Finally 1994 chiro x 1. That's its.
Why spend money on something I can learn for myself?
🙂
Obviously Ric, because you only go to a physio when something goes wrong.
You can't learn it from books, as they're not your specific situation. The physio from their years of training and from stepping back and analysing you up close, finds the weaknesses that you cannot.
Once we've had the exact niggle a second time we know what to do.
When you get it the first time it's quite worrying and uncertain. The physio is where you learn this from.
If your logic was correct, the best runners in the world wouldn't need physios, as they could "learn" it for themselves.
Have aborted plans for a low key turnout tomorrow. Having sat on a coach for 5 1/2hours today, I fancy a more calm 12mile pootle round this area instead!
You seem to forget how long I've been at this game SG.
I don't go to a physio when something goes wrong for the simple reason there is no magic wand they can wave to make the problem go away any faster than it can.
Where does the physio learn from? how do they learn? the information is just sitting there to be picked up. I picked it up. Nothing to it. Apart from studying the subject for 25 years, which I have.
There are runners who are like racing car drivers, they are very good drivers buts thats all. I'm an ok driver too, but I also designed and built the bloody car.
🙂
Evening folks,
Had a tough week this week but turned out for our B team and ran first leg. Each leg was 6.2K, I ran 22:25 which I was pretty pleased with. Went through 5K in a SB equalling 17:38, last K was 3:42 though so obviously the wheels were falling off.
Matt, nice to see your lot turn out, never seen them there before?
Our A team came 11th, 17yr old on 1st leg, ran 18:18, 6th fastest of the day!! Quicker than all of the winning team members. Not bad for a tin pot outfit from a backwater town! I was 411th quickest of the day.... some work to be done!
Great run Ss, if I can run 6k tomorrow near that pace I'll be well pleased.
These area road relays are the real 'club runners' event for sure. A different level of competition and commitment completely.
🙂
Change of plan Dachs, I am 1st leg runner now as the team manager wanted us in the lead by stage 2 which I thought was fair enough. Not really. We had a drop out. Not sure what time I am aiming for for the 6k but as soon as I see 15 minutes on my watch, it is show time.
Will a Software Engineer ever be able to afford an Aston Martin? what do you think people? There was a guy on here with a stupid hair cut who owned some nice cars. Can't remember his name though.
I am officially declaring that I will be aiming for a 1.10 half at this years Ealing half. If gemma Steele can run 1:08. Why not? It will be geoffery Mutai running style followed by a mike kigen running style once I get tired.
Stevie G, on the river relays, there were no gates to open, on the off-road section, I was running on the road. There was a few people around me including one girl who thought she was the dogs bollocks and looked pretty mad when I caught her so early considering the head start.
Dachs, Jonny D ran a very impressive time so I have my eyes on that. Second fastest last year I think!
Scott, i we have gathered that I run brilliantly from time to time. First Ealing, then dulwich. I think it's due I had another stunner now at either Aldershot or Ealing. I have question marks on the course at the river relays. I think I have a right to make outrageous targets sometimes. Last time you doubted me, I ran a 1.20 half for my first time. Then after that, I ran you all over london. However your 5k PB is still very impressive.