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Moraghan Training - Stevie G
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Ric F, I have been told to be more economical in my running style so that probably explains why it appeared I was "plodding along". I think what pissed me off the most was that I had a poor performance + the competition around made it look worse to me. I did stop for 30 seconds though with a bad stitch. I wanted to run another leg after as I felt very unfulfilled with my performance. I should have thought about your story about rob denmark during the race for some extra adrenaline.
in two minds about running with the kenyan women at the Ealing half. Last year 1 out of 2 of them dropped out and the other one died in the second half jogging in at 1.15 which makes me wonder if I can trust them. Perhaps I'll start behind them and look forward to maybe catching them.
So you can't walk into Mordor but you can run!
Followed up last week's 12x1/4mile with a 10x2mins today.
Reps done on the road, as they came, rather than picking a super flat bit to use back and forward.
Average 5.25 pace.
Actual reps slightly all over the place, but that can happen when you take the road and pavements as they come rather than have a nice flat track and no traffic.
I think if i was looking for a session of fast and consistent reps i'd pick a flat fast pavement to go back and forth on.
All in all, after a creaky stiff warmup, flowed fairly well when up to full warmth.Enjoyable too, which probably isn't allowed.
Stevie, don't know for sure but you so seem to mainly race on the road, so it almost makes sense to do the reps on the road and take it as it comes -
http://events.ipswichjaffa.org.uk/ekiden-relays/
Stevie this is the one I meant, but Ipswich may be to far for you guys.
To be honest I am surprised there aren't more about.
Good session SG - must be a good getting back into the speed sessions after such a long break from them, especially as the pace is looking pretty solid.
Ipswich is further than Scotland!
Grendel true to some extent, but it's certainly easier on the track, both in seeing where the finish is to keep the effort consistent, and avoiding hazards and undulations.
There is a track in our area, but it's just too far away to slot in before work. It also seems to be frequented by the humblebraggers of our area!
What I also notice, is that when I get the 5 second countdown on the watch i ease down a bit, which loses some overall pace.
Still, only second session in the mid 5s paces in 4months, so just glad to be somewhere near back.
Combining a tempo&speed in 1 week is the next thing to hurdle.
Seems like a promising workout to me SG. Nice volume + speed. Agree with you about track too, I do 99% on my workouts on roads round near my house sometimes driving to a local park which is a few miles away if I have time for variation. Mainly flat but undulations etc I can't be shy from, I avoid the large hills when repping so it doesn't throw times out etc.. I haven't gone near a hill for months since the achilles though..
Samir - Surely by now you have a rough idea of pacing / what you can physically run? If you don't then the training you're doing can't be right for you in terms of smartness..Run your own race!
agree with that on Samir Scott. I'm not sure if the "30seconds rest" was a joke or not.
It is a joke in the sense that you shouldn't get in the position to need a 30second break in a 6k race! But I can appreciate how it's easy to get carried away, especially in your younger days.
Leading a 10k race at a pace i couldn't get close to these days back in 06 was my biggest madness. Very hot day, led for 1k, before the inevitable meltdown, and 30mins laying face in the turf afterwards.
The chap who got a lift was very concerned for a while!
It was a good day for memorable quotes though.
From the "they're PROPER runners" from the marshall about the top 8 when I came 9th, to the "well you don't have to come along" from a particularly unfriendly club mate afterwards when i was saying how tough the course was.
ps Grendel, interesting looking relay. But I do fear it'd be too far.
Myself and Bus did the GSR once, and I've done a fair few 70-80mile drives to races, but can't see us getting a gang that far from home.
To be fair, Samir has gone from blaming circumstances outside his control in the early days (like fireworks) to now blaming circumstances entirely within his control (starting too fast), so this is a good sign.
Samir, you started way too fast. I wasn't surprised when I saw you shoot off, but I knew you'd come back to me. It's not remotely unusual for someone your age.
I guessed it would be to far, but I was surprised there are not more about as they used to be quite popular.
I think we have all had the moments of madness - I ran the first mile of the cabbage patch 10 once with Steve Brace - he went on to win in 48 something I was 10 minutes behind.
Samir will learn - In reality he hasn't raced that much has he? (sorry Sam talking about you not to you) but you will learn.
No doubt he has speed, no doubt some decent endurance - just finding that happy median...
Great session SG, road reps you can go by effort more than pace as the road always costs a bit of time. Nice to be back moving quickly again. Let's see if you enjoy that session in months time!
I had another decent week in terms of quality rather than quantity.
M - 7 miles
T - 2, 3, 4, 5, 5, 4, 3, 2 (mins @ tempo)
W - 8 miles
T - 10 x 60s
S - Northern Road Relays 6.3K in 22:25
Sun - 15 @ 7:15avg
As for a 'thread out' (I assume this is a race meet not us all turning gay) how about the National XC? It's in Nottingham so accessible for most. Always an amazing race. I'm doing the national relays too in Mansfield. My favourite event of the year!
I thought English national xc was in London again this year Stevie?
I don't buy this 'he is young' argument when it comes to Samir's poor pacing. I have done a few fun runs with my youngest daughter who is 7 years old. On the first one she set off at a sprint and we ended up doing a sprint/walk strategy. After the race she said that she wanted to run all the next race so I explained she should take it easy at the start. Next race she set off slowly and when a little kid sprinted off she said to me ' Daddy, that little girl is going too fast and will end up walking' She managed to run all the way and was overtaking everyone towards the end. And last race out she even beat Matt's new coach (ok the kid she was running with may have been the issue but it is still 1-0). If a 7 year old can get it then wonder what is missing in his case.
I know a certain other poster on this thread does some very fast starts but really it is simply poor running. You train, you know your ability, you come up with a strategy. If you sprint off at the start then really you are ill disciplined, no excuses.
Definitely Parly Hill in my fixture list. Get out the long spikes!!
I'll be doing Scottish nationals. Perhaps I'll need to get out the extra-long spikes!
Time in the bank in races. No such thing, can't be done. Slowing down because you've started too fast is a mistake. Starting off fast because you expect to slow down is something else.
I've a video of me running a sub 34 minute 10k on a three lap course. I set off at exactly my level pace and within one minute I was 50m off the lead. After one lap I was 30 seconds down. After two laps I was 10 seconds down.
I won by 20 seconds.
🙂
Ric, I hear you, but every pb i've ever set has been a time in the bank job. I think you need that mental lift of knowing you're on for a pb early on, rather than having to create the meat of it later on.
Clearly there's a fine line between time in bank, and too fast, later miles ruiner though! I've done plenty of those.
Stevie, I embraced the "to time" nature of today. I see you did a couple of runs this week like that. Freshens things up I think, and is ideal with no track. You do lose the definite end of the rep though, which can make you lose a little focus, when on a track you'd almost lunge/overdo the finish part
I don't think many can run too a known 100% output - I was looking when I ran my 5km PB - 5:03/5:15/5:01 plus change... If I ran say 5:20 for the middle mile does that mean I would run 4:55 - no? Strange concept??
Max I have indeed started fast on some races, some I have done well others not.. When I ran the IOW HM every mile was within 5 seconds or so of the next.. I can't see how I can run that even and say I put 100% in though? Thoughts guys?
With regards to Samir's pacing - it's very naive to keep using it as an excuse yes.. I think it comes back to training though - even with the single session today I'd have an good idea of 5-10km pace ..
I agree that there's a big difference between knowing you will have a positive split and setting off too fast. Too fast implies oxygen debt and lactic build up - leading to a 30 sec rest early on
Like SG, all of my PBs have come with the pace fading somewhat in the latter part of the race. For others though, a negative split seems to pay dividends, but it's never worked for me.
We all have different ways of racing, I remember Chingo used to champion the start reasonably, and end super hard approach versus what me and Bus do.
I think the course is a consideration though.
Wokingham half for instance, I think is a perfect out hard hang on number. It starts slightly downhill, so you get off to nice momentum, and you know the last 3miles have a few slopes. You'd do well to end hard there, and instead you're looking to hold on. Especially as the wind is normally up here.
Frieth 10k starts with a massive downhill, so if you started too slow there, you'd probably lose a stack of time on everyone around you. And would you be able to claw it back.
No, for me, a downhill start is a freebie.
Very much a case of knowing what one's capabilities are, as regards starting pace. On Sunday, I knew I was not really fit, so started much slower than I would have done. And it was still too fast.
The other way is much better. Discovering you can go even faster.
I don't adhere much to the idea of actually chasing a pb because those are mainly a by product of various factors.
If you've plateaued your training/racing then the possibility of racing a pb is more down to luck and a following wind.
Far easier to optimise the training and make a pb a probability.
Its a matter of confidence. I'm confident that my own training will get an appropriate result. If your training doesn't give you confidence, I'll have to pass. Not my area.
🙂
Parli Hill? Oh well, ROAD TRIP!
My 10K PB (35:51), I ran 18:10 for the first 5K. But that is the only time I've run a negative split, where the course hasn't forced my hand (4 Villages HM is downhill last 5K). Poor pacing comes from overestimating training in my experience. That's where I've come undone.
Did 2,3,4,5,5,4,3,2 min today with the group. WAY faster than last Tuesday on my own on the road.
2 (5:35), 3 (5:39), 4 (5:41), 5 (5:40), 5 (5:41), 4 (5:37), 3 (5:25), 2 (5:07). Avg pace in brackets. It does tend to come out a bit quicker than reality when on the track, but still pleasing.
Agreed Scott. Even the worlds greatest distance runner Haile got it wrong at the VLM taking them through the first mile too fast. He didn't even get to London Bridge which where pacers should really be dropping off..
that's ok Grendel. I sometimes talk about myself in the 3rd person which is weird and a little arrogant.
Dachs, next time we race I want to know exactly where you are for better racing. I only shot off because of the other competition which is my own fault. That kind of stopped me from playing to my strength which is endurance.
Samir, a few words of advice.
1) 75 minutes HM on the treadmill: don't fucking do it: waste of time and proves nothing.
2) Pick a target for Sunday and work out a pace to hit that target and stick to it.
Look at the relays, you say you don't have the speed but you went out faster than Dachs so clearly you do have the speed, but not the speed endurance. The full results are up and your 20:25 is the 218th fastest leg out of about 470 runners so top half (just). 100 were 19:25 or faster, a full minute ahead of you.
For a guy of your age, a 75 minute half (5:43 pace) is 79.9% WAVA which is about what your best runs show you can do. 70 minutes is 85.6%. You are not going to run 70 minutes (5:20 pace) and if there was some way I could put a bet on that, I'd stake everything. If you go out at 5:20 and chase 70 you will die and it will be fugly. Having said that, I don't think you can run 75 even pace so if you want to have a shot at 75 then you need to go out a bit faster, so say 5:40 and not 5:43 which will get you to 10 in 56:40 (even is 57:15) so 35 seconds in the bag so you can come home at 5:50 pace.
Anyone want to play guess the finish time? 80:33 last year, Reading we don't count. I'll say 77 dead and think that is generous.
Good session there SS on the back of a good run at the northerns.
I missed the northerns due to a tight adductor. Didn't go down well after dropping out on Friday morning. Don't think the lad who picks the team believed me so I told him to 'get f@@ked'.
Away in Cyprus at the minute so the plan was to have a week of steady running anyway. 7 & 6 Monday and 2 x 6s yesterday. Bit warm for a pale lad like me. Bit of a progression run yesterday afternoon too as I got bored.
Dare I mention that during my chat with Samir before his relay leg, the subject of starting too fast was broached? That said, I was only referring to the opening hill.
Haven't run an inch since Aldershot. Muscles still complaining even now. I've recovered from marathons faster. And that was a 6k leg of 23:28. No matter, it'll get better, I can wait.
🙂