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Thats so true, Mike, there were several clubs that had the same level of sub 2:20 in their ranks as the entire country does now. Beyond this, most clubs would have a group of sub 2:40 runners to keep everyone on their toes.
I think the Sub 3:00 thread on here is the nearest thing that exists now to an old fashioned club, providing the rivalry and sharing of training methods that usually leads to faster times.
And, yes, the readership interested in sub 3:00 stuff is probably way below 5%. In fact less than 5% of runners in general are sub 3:00 runners and I cant imagine that the same proportion of sub 3:00 runners read RW as as those over 3:00.
Interesting though that the thread on this forum with the highest amount of views is the sub 3 thread when you would have thought it would be the one that covers 4h20mins (average finishing time of London marathon participants)........
I feel sure that there would be some interest in the period prior to marathon focussed training and also the recovery period afterwards which could benefit from expert coaching input. People genuinely don't know what to do at these times so some guidance would be great.
Mike - I am interested to find out (if you will say
) as to whether you would have approached the challenge of producing a sub3 performance from Christina any differently? I can't really put my finger on it but I do feel that she was let down the most by the constraints of the competition and that makes me feel pretty bad for her as an individual. I know that she entered the SSX of her own accord and the challenge was a tough one but (speaking from experience) you kind of go into the thing thinking you know what you are letting yourself in for but not having a clue actually!
I for one followed your original schedule (the tougher ones on the 2.09 site) after running for only 6 months. Like many on RW who use the forums initially, at the time I didn't know any better, stumbled upon your thread and schedules and had a bash! It didn't kill me, I have a life (and a job, kids, husband who works long hours) and I ran a decent marathon first time out. I don't actually think it does a person any harm knowing what level of work/commitment is involved so I am not sure I agree with them being 'watered down', particularly if the challenge is, er - more challenging like Christinas!
It's probably bloomin' Health and Safety though or some such
(wonders if Mike ever takes an interest in slower runners)
Just popping in though to say thanks to the Super sixers for feedback on this thread
and to answet little Ninja
Nope, id never do this, I was asked a long time ago and said no
Reason being is that I have certain things that I cant compromise on with my running, and it wouldnt fit in with their training programme
It's not making a mountain out of a molehill when the hype about a project offers lots on the surface but by not having the training components properly thought through leads to disappointment for the SSXers and their followers.
Excellent contributions from all. There are many great suggestions RW could take on board to improve this process next year. I await next year's pre-project publicity with interest to see if any lessons have been learnt.
Bring yer kit it tomorrow Mr.G......... i'll help you test it.
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And i suggest we start a thread next year..... The Super One..... I run it, you train me to get a sub 4.45.
The good thing about this thread is that people have made excellent points all along from a range of viewpoints. No need to get sidetracked by accusing people of having agendas or being patronising.
I think discussions will continue as long as people have points to make. As has been said, an interesting discussion which has been made even more interesting by Mike's contributions today, seeing as it is his schedules which form part of the discussions.
Lady Wot Jogs you know I am capable of at least a mile and half now - never one to shirk a challenge - you're on but you don't get special treatment at work - nose to the key board or else
Plodding Hippo, my natural inclination is to be interested in the faster runners as I think I have most to offer in that area but I do support beginners through the charity sector with training days and email follow up. I looked after the slowest group on our March training camp and the feedback I got was that they didn't realise how much they could do and how they found themselves doing and enjoying hilly 600m reps and a pyramid on the track - who'd have thought it!
Unfortunately I don't have the time now - I didn't have the time before really but have even less of it now - to commit to building a new thread bringing on a beginner but it would be interesting to do.
Sue C, I think the dumming down of my schedules is more marginal than maybe I have given the impression and was mostly due to a bit of rounding to get them into a format to support Garmin. The technology is fine and probably acts as a good prompt to people who require it but I think the real thing that is missing from the plain schedules is the dialogue that will have the coach pushing people of all standards quite hard to get the most out of the sessions. As I said earlier, not everyone has time to live running like we do and even get coaching so the schedules in whatever format give a structure to work to.
I think what I am saying is that the schedules are fine on their own but they work best when there's a human behind it supporting and pushing, and holding back where necessary.
I won't speak for Paul as I don't know what guidelines he was given but I think he gave good advice and stepped outside of the schedule to adapt to the person who was Christine - we spoke a lot about it when we were in Portugal and he was very thoughtful.
It will, indeed, be interesting to see what RW do with the promotion next year - it doesn't need much tweaking I don't think, maybe a bit more coaching rather than mentoring (BR) and maybe the coaches producing a defined schedule for the person after a series of preminary meetings so people can see how it evolves.
I think it's an interesting and popular promotion and gets people talking about training at a time when there's most interest.
Yes it must have been difficult for top coaches and hugely experienced runners to tread the line between mentoring and coaching and Paul as a newcomer to the forums may not have had the confidence the other mentors had to step outside the box sometimes. However it was noticeable that as the thread wore on he had more input on JBFAR's progress.
Definitely agree that the coaching is the fascinating thing to see. It would be very interesting to read the rationales and different approaches people take. Some of the best threads on here are the Moraghan training ones and the quality of discourse on these is reminiscent of the days when Mike did something similar 5 or 6 years ago.
Agree that is the 'Why?' that comes from discussions with the likes of Mike and other experienced coaches/runners that is the fascinating aspect of some of the threads.
When you were at your peak, Mike, the tendency was for cards to be played close to chests or (accidentally of course) tell little fibs about certain aspects of training to mislead rivals. After competitive retirement all this great information can be freely divulged and I find it fascinating to read.
However, I think a lot of us struggle with the idea that some people dont find this stuff fascinating and yet somehow want to run a marathon. We just have to accept that for some it is not a sport but driven by completely different motivations and this group will quite happily follow a schedule to achieve their goal without questioning the various aspects of the training.
No, not at all - we were discussing the 'dumbing down' of schedules for a mass audience in general, not specifically the SSX participants.
What are you getting worked up about? You must agree that a lot of VLM entrants dont see marathon running as a sport but have different motivations?
And in any case, for the people who dont treat it as a sport, I said that they have 'different motivations to reach their goal'. You quoted it in your post - it hardly amounts to saying anyone 'wasnt motivated to achieve their goal'!
I have read a few comments on here but not all so apologies if my comments have already been discussed...a really interesting read.
I followed EP's thread regularly and got some invaluable information from EP, Steve, Emma and from all of the other regulars, so first of all thanks to everyone. DIdnt quite get my time but, I think most importantly, enjoyed it.
I also agree, wholeheartedly that people seem to give so much more to the LM than ANY other event. I have raised money from sponsored swims, cycles, other runs, walks....and have raised sooooooooo much more money from the LM than any other event.
EP I think, was a great host and a very worthy winner of the 'prize', but can I ask what the point of advertising the competition in the LM magazine? I admit I 'entered' as I really liked the idea of having the support and training promised as the prize. But it is almost false promises really when the only people who were able to 'win' were regular forumites on RW. Not that this is a major problem if it is advertised as such.
Whether its aim is to sell products or help six people achieve their goal.
The views here are all varied. But the decision should lie with RW and Lucoazde.
If they going to do a super six for 2011, please don't let us lot vote. Let the experts decide.
But it is almost false promises really when the only people who were able to 'win' were regular forumites on RW. Not that this is a major problem if it is advertised as such.
I have to disagree. The SSXers were not all regulars on the forum. I followed JBFAR's thread as it was the closest to my time target, and she was not a regular before entering the competition. I voted for EP because she was a forum regular and I knew she would commit to the training.
I think the winners should be people with track records of joining in with discussions and making good points. Some SSX threads disappeared very quickly post VLM without a full analysis of lessons learned and achievements on the day.
I know what went wrong for me.
I have said as much. I waved goodbye to my thread a few days after VLM because I felt the need to move on. I have learnt some lessons but also felt my job was done there. Having the thread was actually one of the best bits of the prize to me and I was proud to be part of some runners' build-up to what was one of the biggest days of their lives and that they are enthused enough to carry on and do more marathons.
I didn't want to keep picking the scab, as it were.