The Middle Ground

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  • alehousealehouse ✭✭✭
    AD: I used to wear my orthotics under my insoles, as recommended by the podiatrist. Not sure about orthotics now though: when I saw my Achilles consultant, who then became my surgeon(!) he blamed my Achilles problems on the orthoses, feeling that they caused a repetitive strain injury as they largely keep the foot in the same place and reduce the natural movements and adaptability of the foot. 

    I am down to run the Last Friday of the Month 5k in Hyde Park tomorrow; unfortunately I am currently on antibiotics and steroids for a chest infection so will not be running flat out, if I run at all. Wanted to get an idea of where my consistent consistency had got me but that isn't going to happen. Won't do anything that will set me back further but am likely to run well within myself, just as in a parkrun.
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭
    Aley - took your advice about the insoles and it worked a treat!
  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭
    Given I’ve missed a run this week and didn’t want to overload the end of the week, I’ve basically turned this into a cutback week and will swap my sessions from this week into next week (which was supposed to be the cutback). So I just did 2 LT miles today within a longer run, came in at 7.01 and 6.59. Spot on target.

    Long run (only 7 this week) planned for tomorrow.

    How are the niggles Alehouse?
  • alehousealehouse ✭✭✭
    AD: I presume by following my advice that you mean that the orthoses are under the insoles rather than you threw them away!

    Will find out over the next few days how the niggles are! Am having to manage various things. Had a chat on Wednesday over lunch with my running doctor friend (former RW doctor/GB team doctor/Chief Medical Officer for 2002 Commonwealths etc) and gave good advice. And a copy of his latest book (Running Anatomy) which he obviously thinks I need. 

    So, yesterday's Last Friday of the Month 5k in Hyde Park: having been suffering with a chest infection I was very much in two minds whether to run so ran well within myself, setting off particularly slowly and gradually moving through the gears without ever getting into top. Didn't sprint at the end! So, very pleased with 22:59 on my watch. That of course ticked over to 23:00 on the official results. 72.4% WAVA and 1st M65 in my first M65 race. Pleased. And I never find it a particularly quick course. Obviously antibiotics and steroids seem to being doing the trick but would have been silly to push any harder. Will be very disappointed if I can't run a minute or so quicker come May or June.
    Wore shorts and vest for the first time for  almost two years! An easy few days now to give the niggles time to recover, and more importantly to make sure the chest is fully clear. Think this warmer weather is helping. 
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭
    Great stuff Alehouse - all moving in the right direction I’d say! And yes, I switched the orthotics to underneath the insoles of the shoes and there was no chafing this time.

    I did contemplate sneaking in a parkrun this morning, but shelved that idea in the end. 
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Nice work, Andrew, your pacing slways seems very consistent. 

    Sounds like a decent outing, Alehouse and good to kick off the new age cat with a win. 

    Decent first 20 for me yesterday, was pretty comfortable and enjoyable. 5 at recovery today. 

    I have had problems with my middle back since mid january with the muscles either side of the spine like steel rods through that section. After various massages and treatments to no avail i went to gp Friday with purpose of getting muscle relaxants. No resistance from gp so on a 5 day course of diazepam and ibruprofen. Hopefully that'll release the spasms. 
  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭

    Thanks DT - I try to be as consistent as possible.

    If you're getting back spasms as you describe then I'm amazed that you can run much at all, let alone be training at the level that you are! Hopefully the drugs will sort things out, but it is probably worth getting looked at to check that there is not an underlying musculo-skeletal problem.

    I'm currently having issues with my left inner ear affecting my hearing and balance. I think it is just some kind of blockage (presumably as a result of having a recent cold), but ear drops don't seem to be having any effect so I'm starting to wonder if a trip to the docs is necessary to check that there is no infection (or worse!). It makes taking corners at speed interesting, let's say!

  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Andrew, it's trips to chiro and physio and put the idea in my head to see my gp for relaxants. 

    the middle back is not as debilitating as lower back issues so its not really troubled my running. 

    You might have some residual inflamation and need steroid drops? 

    8 easy over lunch. Spin in a bit. 
  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭

    I started taking some decongestant tablets on Tuesday and they do seem to be helping clear the sinuses and, in turn, my ear. Still not perfect but much better and at least the dodgy balance issues seem to be much better too.

    So, threshold/tempo session last night. 3.5 miles at LT pace after a mile warm up. Paces came in very consistent at 7.03, 7.04, 7.03 and 7.02 for the half mile. More than that, I reached 3.5 miles and felt relatively relaxed and fresh and certainly like I could have carried on at that pace for a bit further, which is always how I think you should feel at the end of a tempo session. Mile warm down, so 5.5 miles in total for the session.

    All in all, possibly my best ever training run I think. I've certainly not hit those paces in training for as far as 3.5 miles before and certainly not with such ease.

    5 mile recovery run planned for tonight.

    PS, Alehouse - it seems that the real trick for avoiding the blister issues with the new orthoses is to wear two insoles on top of them!

  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    Nice going, Andrew. Time to maybe go a bit further or a bit faster?

    I've had a crap week so far. The tablets (whilst making no difference at all to my back), have knocked my fitness for 6. Mondays 8 was tough going but I had put that down to Saturdays 20 being in the legs.

    Tuesday I went to do a session and warm up was really hard work. I was aiming for 6.20s but after about 400m of struggling to run sub 7mm I knew it wasn't happening. Finished the mile then jogged back to work. Yesterday was supposed to be 7 easy. Managed 5 but couldn't run faster than 9mm. Funnily my HR is completely as you would expect running 9mm pace, I just had this overwhelming sense of weakness and fatigue (which isn't surprising given the tablets are a sedative).

    Anyway, after yesterday mornings dose I binned off the last 3 tablets as they had done nothing for my back anyway. Hopefully by tonights mlr they will be out of my system.

  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭

    Sounds like the tablets have dragged you back to running at around my paces! Hope you'll be back on it once they are out of the system.

    Yes, the plan is to push the LT stretch to 4 miles next week and then maybe 4.5 between now and the race.

    To hit my target in April (sub 43) I need to run at 6.49 pace (assuming the course will measure around 6.3 miles, as they always seem to do) or at the least 6.53 pace to achieve a pb. So this is about 10-14 seconds per mile faster than I ran last night - does that sound about right? ie. LT being around 10-15 seconds per mile slower than 10k pace? I think it sounds about right.

  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭

    5 miles recovery run last night at a comfortable 8.50ish pace.

    Intervals tonight.

  • alehousealehouse ✭✭✭
    You seem to be going well, AD! Consistent consistency! 


    Hope you are feeling better now, DT. Unfortunately I'm not; LFoM took too much out of me and shouldn't have run, even within myself, when on the anti-biotics and steroids. Have felt rough all week and peak flow has gradually dropped since I stopped the steroids on Monday. In the past when this has happened I have had a "rescue" pack of steroids: now no longer allowed because of the possibility of over-dosing. Just back from GP...with a new set of steroids which I could of course overdose on if I so wished! GP agrees the system is silly and also that I would probably have been better now if I had taken 5 more days of steroids as now prescribed! 

    Have done my stretching work and the last three days only about a mile of gentle running a day. Falling behind where I want to be but will just have to be patient and remind myself that the relatively easy LFoM was a good marker.  
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    Yes, rewards will no doubt follow, Andrew.

    Alehouse, sorry to hear of your troubles. I recall trying to race a few years back on antibiotics. You very quickly learn quite how harsh they are on the body as with these tabs I was on. I cant believe millions take this sort of stuff routinely!!

    My back is still stiff, but not as locked up as it was. It feels more like it will respond well now to some physio/sports massage.

    I managed a 12 mile mlr last night. I kept it very easy at 8.40mm just in case!. Going to try something a bit faster over lunch, perhaps pushing mp. It's been over 48 hours since my last dose so they should be largely out of me by now. I can still end up with a decent week as i'm on 30 miles and I have 20 with various blocks of mp on sunday, so I could still make it a 60 mile week.

  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭

    Alehouse - likewise, sorry to hear that you have been struggling.

    My ear issues haven't completely gone away, so I may end up needing some antibiotics to clear it. If so, I will note the comments from you and DT that they can affect your running!

    DT - let's hope so. It is strange, that additional 10-15 per mile faster on race day sounds quite intimidating, but I suppose we tend to forget the benefits of a taper and also race day adrenaline! Fingers crossed!

    Even if you finish the week on 'only' 55/56 it will still be a very decent week.

    Weather looks rubbish for Sunday - might end up being a very wet long run ........

  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    I avoided the worst of the weather today for my session. 20 miles with 5 easy then 15 of 5 at mp, 1 easy, 4 at mp, 1 easy, 3 at mp, 1 easy. 

    mp miles come out 6.55, 6.52, 6.51, 6.52 and 6 45. then 6.46, 6.50, 6.52 and 6.43. Finally 6.47, 6.50 and 6 28. Obviously that last mile wasnt at mp but i was feeling pretty goid given it was mile 19 so just opened the legs up. 

    Off to Edinburgh friday morning for a rugby weekend so this week coming is largely front loaded. After that weekend it's 6 big weeks to London. 
  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭

    Well done DT, you're a better man than I.

    Having had a dodgy run on Saturday morning (Friday's session which had to be shunted to Saturday) in which I felt rubbish, and then a long afternoon and evening on Saturday helping at my wife's work, the weather forecast for Sunday coupled with my tiredness meant I ducked out of my long run altogether.

    So only 15 miles last week, which was the first week under 20 miles since New Year. Hopefully the rest will allow me to hit the next 3 or 4 weeks hard before a taper. Feeling shattered again today though, so it isn't boding well.

  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭
    3 miles this morning before work - felt fairly easy, so fingers crossed it can be the start of a better week!
  • JGavJGav ✭✭✭
    I wouldn't say I'm back but I did a gentle 30 mins today without my calf blowing up.  Felt a little niggle and I know I need to take it easy.  Maybe 15 mins tomorrow or wait to Thursday.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    is that a new thing, Andrew, the 3 miles before work? It's a very easy way to increase mileage just sneaking in easy short ones like that. I did an easy 7 yesterday before work then spin last night

    I suspect you should see how you feel in the morning, JGav  before you decide what you might do.

    12.5 over lunch with 2 wu and 10 at tempo. Quite a big session following sunday so dialled pace and effort back from trying to creep under 6.30mm to trying to creep under 6.40. I did this session early February at 6.27mm for average hr of 167. Today it came out 6.35 for 157bpm. Whilst I was 8 seconds a mile slower, the 10 bpm saved equates to a much lower effort than last time even factoring in the slight let up in pace.

    5 at recovery planned tomorrow.


  • JGavJGav ✭✭✭
    Yeh - gonna give it another day before running again.

    That's quite some session DT19
  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭

    DT - it is something I add in once weekly planned mileage gets above a certain level (ie. the level that I can comfortably fit into my 4 usual slots in the week). I hate running first thing though, so that's why I limit it to just a 3 mile 'filler' run rather than anything more substantial.

    10 at tempo! Great stuff.

    JGav - good luck with the calf!

  • alehousealehouse ✭✭✭
    I don't get on well with running first thing either, but if it is the only way to get the extra 20-30 minute runs in then it has to be done. And I think the extra 20-30 minute runs are great value in topping up mileage, recovery and confidence. 

    Just back from the GP again with a third lot of steroids to try to get my breathing back to somewhere like normal. Finished the last lot and within hours my peak flow had started to drop again. Hope this does the trick as want to get back to "proper" training asap. Precautionary x-ray booked for pm.
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭
    Very decent tempo session this evening - warm up mile then 4 miles at tempo. Was looking for something similar to last week pace wise, something around 7.05 pace. Started with a 7.05 then 7.02. Pushed on a bit onto 6.56 and felt comfortable so ended with a 6.50. So the last 2 miles were probably at 10k pace really.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    Hopefully the meds will get you there, Alehouse.

    Yes, early morning running doesn't me but sometimes needs must.

    Andrew, good stuff, I suspect 10k pace (as you perceive) is no longer 10k pace if you finished like that.

    heavy legged 5 at recovery last night. 11 mlr tonight then off to Edinburgh in the morning for our bi-annual lads rugby weekend. I did contemplate taking some kit and trying to get a run in up towards Arthurs seat or perhaps parkrun, however I think i'll just give myself a break for a few days before my final big 5 week block kicks in.

  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭

    Yes I'm hoping that it would indicate that 10k pace might be around 6.50 pace, or even slightly better. Leaves me in a bit of a quandary as to what pace to set off in the race - I'm thinking maybe 6.55 for the first couple of miles and then try to turn that up to 6.50? That would see me to 6 miles in about 41mins, which would leave me 2 mins to do the final bits to come in sub43 (which is my aim).

    Not surprised that some of your recovery runs feel heavy legged DT, the volumes you do you can't expect the legs to always feel fresh!

  • JGavJGav ✭✭✭
    AndrewD sounds like you're running is really coming along.

    I went out and did 20 mins today without the right (problematic) calf reacting.  Left felt tight but that's nothing more than lack of practice.  Hoping we are on the road to recovery.
  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭
    Thanks JGav - hope you’ve been able to get some more runs in this week without problem.

    Did some 1k intervals on Friday afternoon, 3.5 easy miles yesterday and a 9 mile long run this morning to get to 25 for the week.
  • JGavJGav ✭✭✭
    Cycled Sat and couldn't find any time yesterday.  Club swim tonight so back to running tomorrow.  Hoping the cross training will keep me fit, 1/2 mary in 2 weeks that I'm aiming to complete.  Will be a case of severe lack of long runs (or any runs) but just aiming to enjoy it.

    What pace do you run your 1ks at?
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Not much to report running wise. Long weekend away so back to it today.
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