The Middle Ground

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  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭
    JGav - came in at 6.35 pace for the 1k reps (exactly 4.00m/km as it turns out), so about 10 secs per mile quicker than current 5k pb pace. Only did 2, looking to extend to 3 this week.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    isn't 4m/km 6.26 pace? That is the pace need to sub 20/40?
  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭
    edited March 11

    You may be right DT - I was being lazy and hadn't reset my watch for km reps, so was stopping manually after 0.61 miles. I think this is marginally shorter than 1k. Both times the watch said 6.34 pace and 4.00 exactly as the rep time.

    Or I'm misremembering the pace shown on the watch - perhaps it was faster.

  • JGavJGav ✭✭✭
    edited March 12
    A wet and windy 4 miles at lunch.  Calf feeling ok but I don't want to push it right now, by that I mean no consecutive days running.  If I can build up to 3/4 runs a week I'll be happy.

    AndrewD - decent pace - good luck building up as that sounds like what you'd need to sub20.
  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭
    Thanks JGav - fingers crossed, if I ever get round to doing a 5k in this training block!

    Since Sunday, my running has taken a back seat due to yet another heavy cold, cough virus thing. Not doing tonight’s session but hoping to get back out there by tomorrow or Friday.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    Take it easy, JGav.

    That's a shame, Andrew. I recall a few years ago, for a few years, just rolling from minor infection/cold to the next one. I've been very lucky for 18 months now with a 2 day cold over xmas being the only real issue since early November 17.

    Not felt great though this week, some residual fatigue from a heavy weekend away. Managed 10 x 1km off 1 minute on Tuesday at hmp-10k pace. Started at 3.57 for a k and progressed each slightly so last 3 were 3.47, 3.48 and 3.47.

    Yesterday I felt shattered but managed to get my 12 mlr in. Just an easy 5 today before a tempo tomorrow.

  • JGavJGav ✭✭✭
    Easy 4 at lunch today, starting to get a rhythm.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Jgav, sometimes when I have had even 5 days off running, I have all sorts of aches and pains when I go again and feel quite clumsy and inefficient. It usually takes me 2 weeks to break through that.
  • JGavJGav ✭✭✭
    DT19 said:
    Jgav, sometimes when I have had even 5 days off running, I have all sorts of aches and pains when I go again and feel quite clumsy and inefficient. It usually takes me 2 weeks to break through that.
    It just feels awkward, timing and foot placement are all over the place - not helped by the ridiculous wind today.  Turned a corner and practically came to a stop!

    I also mean, the rhythm of training days and what I am able to fit in around family and work.  It's definitely changed since my third came along with me able to fit in less volume.  With a 9 week old baby, I'm sure the situation will evolve a lot in the coming year.
  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭
    Hope you are all still running well, I’ve had a terrible week! Heavy cold/cough and fever on Weds and Thursday and then just when I was feeling well enough to contemplate a run on Friday I managed to completely ruin my lower back when the accumulated coughing proved to be too much for it to cope with. Can hardly get out of bed or off a sofa at the moment, let alone run! So frustrating!
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Andrew, that's  a shame. What part of the back? Ive been antagonised by middle back issues since January now. Ive tried so much but cant shift it. The only thing ive not tried is not running. I may have to but after London. 

    10 nile tempi friday, wind was a nuisance and coundnt get into mid 6.30s for right effort. Came out 6.45mm average so pretty much 10 at mp. Just spin yesterday then an easy 20 this pm for 62 miles for week. 
  • Thanks for sharing this with us.
  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭
    DT - it is the very bottom of the back. Same place as it went a couple of times a few years ago. Felt terrible over the weekend, but much better yesterday and good enough today to allow me to get out for 5 miles this evening. Similar planned for tomorrow, all being well.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    sounds like a dramatic turn around. The lower back is such a debilitating area to go. 

    10 x 3 mins today at 10k-5k pace, off 1 minute. Went pretty well. Progressed it with first rep being slowest and last one fastest. 

    Taking it easier now rest of week as Ashby 20 Sunday which will be a big session. 
  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭
    Good session DT. I may have asked before, but are you racing Ashby or running at MP? How is the forecast looking?

    Another 5 for me just completed. Felt ok again. Wondering whether to play safe and just do something similar tomorrow just to keep banking the miles or whether to see how the back responds to a session. With only 2.5 weeks until race day I wonder whether sessions are worth the risk - it may be too late for adaptations anyway and just risk hurting my back again. On the other hand I don’t fancy trying to race if I haven’t done any quicker running in the last month before race day!
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    Haha, Ashby, the race that definitely isn't a race currently has the best race day forecast i've seen in a good 18 months!!

    Ashby will be starting at easy, probably 5 miles, then slowly progressing to mp, sitting there a while then finish strong and faster than mp.

    Well they say adaptions take circa 7-10 days to kick in on still progress to be made, however you may want to cash your chips and make sure you get to the start line in good order as opposed trying to eeek a bit more out and miss the race.

  • alehousealehouse ✭✭✭
    AD: I disagree slightly with DT! I have always been led to believe that it takes 2 to 3 weeks for adaptions to be made. I do agree though with the suggestion that you may want to cash in your chops and get to the start line in one piece etc: I would just run gently over the next couple of weeks with no sessions, but probably a few strides or throw in a few faster sections into a couple of the steady runs. 

    Not a lot to report here apart from I am just about over my illness: has cost over four weeks of training! Did do a parkrun last Saturday in horrendous conditions, literally paddling almost all the way round. If I had looked at the course beforehand, which I didn't because I know it so well, then I wouldn't have run: puddles where I have never seen them before. 

    DT: hope Ashby goes to plan, and perhaps more importantly that you recover well and don't take withdraw too much from the bank of fitness that you have invested in.
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    Alehouse, I read conflicting things. I've heard 7-10 days for lt and speed quality sessions to come through but then 2-3 weeks for endurance gains from long runs.

    Yes, the trick is to get a bloody good session in Sunday, but be able to move into 2-3 further big weeks.

  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭
    So so far I’ve taken the ‘safe’ approach and just did another short easy paced run yesterday. Will try a long one on Sunday (9 miles). If I feel ok early next week I’ll probably do one last LT session next Tuesday/Wednesday.
  • JGavJGav ✭✭✭
    Did a 5 mile tempo at lunch - still on my consistent run of inconsistency.  Looking forward to LLHM on Sunday and using next week to reset.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    solid run today. It was windier and warmer than forecast (i have running vest sunburn).

    Started steady then picked it up 2nd half to mp. Spent pretty much 17 miles passing people. Came in 2.18.31 for 6.55 average pace. Bpm was 158 which is 5 less than average at Yorkshire.

    It was also much hillier with nearly 1000 feet of elevation gain, nearly treble that in York. 
  • JGavJGav ✭✭✭
    edited March 25
    Solid run yesterday at the London Landmarks Half- I paced a friend to a sub 1.45 which for my current fitness was still an effort.  Her previous best was a 1.50 and she hadn't run under 50m for a 10k so was a superb effort for her.  What a perfect day for running and a really well support course, will probably enter again next year.

    We started about 20 m behind the 1.45 pacers and caught them by the first mile, given that we were barely on schedule for the time by that point he was going way too slow.  I reckon he would have been coming in at 1.50 which would be shame for the people following him.
  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭

    Well done both DT and JGav - sounds like successful HMs for you both!

    At the moment, I feel a little like my body is all over the place. I've not been able to shake this cold for 2 weeks now, and the bad back (a result of the excessive coughing) is much better but still sore and realistically isn't going to get better until I can stop coughing!

    As such, Sunday's run was a simple 4 miles rather than a long one. 18 miles for the week. I am now less than 2 weeks for race day and the way I feel at the moment I am tempted to sack it off as I doubt I have much hope of a pb, bearing in mind my training has been all over the place since the end of February. Very annoying, as Sept through to Feb I managed consistent mileage, improving sessions and no injuries, so it is so frustrating to have had such a rubbish run of injuries/illness over the last month.

    Grumpy!

  • JGavJGav ✭✭✭
    2 weeks of lower volume is nothing in the grand scheme of 6 months solid training.  Just think of it as an extended taper.

    My news is that I had a sod it moment and have signed up to the Bournemouth Marathon.  About time I had a debut at the 26.2.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    Andrew, If no longer ill, I would still take in the race. You might surprise yourself and at the very worst there is the fitness boost from the race session itself.

    JGav, good work on the pacing. Nice impulsive signing up. Sometimes we can procrastinate over these things too long and hard.

    I won't be running an Autumn mara this year. I was only really do 2 a year to get sub and that is done now. This will be my 5th successive mara campaign in April so I want some time targeting other things.

    Very slow 4 yesterday, quads are sore from the combination of hills and vaporflys. 6 easy tonight planned.

  • JGavJGav ✭✭✭
    What other things DT19?  Come to the dark side (triathlon)!
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭


    I can't swim (I can enough to splash about with kids etc) at all, JGav and hate being under water. I had lessons about 8 years ago to get me from unable to take my feet even off the ground in a pool to being able to do a length properly etc, but that was my limit.

    Basically, I can't remember the last time I raced other distances which were the target and for which I tapered for etc plus I haven't used my road bike in 2 plus years so hope to do some social cycling as well as trying some other gym classes that look very good but I don't really want to incorporate them mid way through a cycle as I will no doubt ache for a bit from them.

    I and my family just need a break from entire Sundays dominated by long runs and recovery and me constantly evading social events as I have a 20 to do the next day.

  • alehousealehouse ✭✭✭
    AD: I'm with the advice given by JGav and DT! Easy couple of weeks and then nothing to lose...and possibly lots to be gained!

    Well done to both JGav and DT at the weekend!

    Still not great here...but better than I was! Peak flow actually best it has been for a couple of years, no doubt due to the steroids; unfortunately the good news is tempered by constant catarrh and sore throats. Managed 8k or so yesterday, the longest since February 13th, and also a parkrun at the weekend where 24:30 was harder work than it should have been.
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • JGavJGav ✭✭✭
    First work run club in ages - 10 x 300(ish)m sprints all in between 53 and 58 seconds, not the most consistent but starting and stopping watch on such short sprints is hard so not sure what was speed variation and what was watch accuracy.
  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭
    Looks like I have no option but to take a couple of easy weeks. I went out for a mini session last night, intending to do 2.5 miles at tempo and had to quit the session after just a mile. Felt weak, light headed and like my legs were full of lead. Possibly still being affected by the virus that has been giving me the cough/cold for the last 2 weeks. Not good.
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