The Middle Ground



  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    sounds like a v good session jgav. That site looks decent. I pay for strava premium but from hat people have said, I can get better analysis for free on Fetch and sites like this.

    WJH, all about the consistency. If you can maintain that level for a few months week in, week out it'll be better for you than trying to push on to 40, then missing 2 weeks etc. Yes, I should be realistic I guess. I don't think I've been able to race this well so soon after a mara previously so that's a positive.

    Easy 4m yesterday and then bodypump in evening. Easy 7 later followed by 13 in the morning. That will have be almost back to 40m weeks. Next week see's the inclusion of a normal structure with 2 x sessions and a long run.

  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭
    Well done on the pb DT.

    Good running JGav and WJH.

    I’m just sort of ticking over at the moment- I had a flare up of my knee pain after last week’s intervals so have been keeping to 3 or 4 mile easy runs since.
  • WJHWJH ✭✭✭
    DT yes realistic but it’s a PB so celebrate it as you never know when the last will be (not saying it’s your last mind by a long shot!). Good advice there too and also nice to have been told that more than once. So yes, the next few weeks will be about maintaining a certain level of mileage with a bit of threshold and fartlek thrown in on occasion. I do have a 10k in early June so hope it’s a little bit faster than my last outing at Eastleigh! 

    Best of luck with the knee, Andrew. Good to see you still going at it. Any PBs or other successes over the last year or two?

    It’s amazing really this running lark. How one minute you lose all interest and with a few good weeks the enthusiasm can come back just like that. I guess the key is not to take it or myself too seriously and to just enjoy it! 
  • AnnaHenkeAnnaHenke ✭✭
    I will be OK with it. Let me think over the details.
  • JGavJGav ✭✭✭
    Got a head cold again.  Will keep running but hope it doesn't develop into anything else.  Feels like I only just got over the last one!
  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭
    WJH - had a really good period from last September to this April where I got good, consistent training in and managed to get my 10k pb down to 43:00. I also matched my 5k pb from 3.5 years ago to the second and set a new 5 mile pb last autumn (which now looks soft against my new 10k pb).
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    That's the reduced sleep from babies, jgav. I used to get so many colds!

    Getting back to normal training now. 9 on Tuesday with 6 at tempo. Came out at 6.42mm which was below par and felt like quite an effort. Amazing to think it was only 2s per mile slower than my mara pace from 4 weeks earlier.

    Easy 8 last night and 14 planned tonight as want to get my long run done as will be out on the beers Saturday.

    Might get a parkrun in on Saturday as well, though wont be full beans.

  • JGavJGav ✭✭✭
    4 miles yesterday and then played badminton in the evening (first time in about 4 years) bad idea as it kills the legs.  Did a very slow 4 miles today and it felt excruciating.  Trying to hit my target of 25m this week before a cutback next week.  Then onto 30m for the next 4 week block.  I can see how this is going to get hard nearer the mara when I'm up to 40mpw.

    Enjoy the beers DT - always a good excuse to not run.
  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭
    Sounds like you’re building up nicely JGav. Keep at it!

    DT - are you having a summer away from mara training and having a short(we) distance focus? A change up might work well?

    4 miles for me last night in just over 34 mins- all very easy effort, so the base aerobic fitness seems to be intact but I have done very few sessions in weeks and overall mileage is low too. Worried I am shedding fitness rapidly now!!
  • alehousealehouse ✭✭✭
    AD: you won't lose fitness if you are doing 20-25 minutes three times a week, some research says somewhere! You won't gain much either! All about consistent consistency! 

    Having to manage a couple of niggles here (heel, hip). Saw physio last night and she thinks the heel in particular is nerve damage connected to last year's back fracture, and will discuss it with a mutual consultant friend. Probably a scan or three: heel, hip, back. Happy for me to run though.

    May's figures: 174.48k, 31 days run, 4 parkruns which were run within myself on two different courses and ranging from 23:26 to 23:52. May pin a number on in June but speedwork has been compromised.





    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭
    Yep Aley, still get between 90-120 minutes a week plus a cricket match. So it must help tick over.

    4 miles this afternoon, bit hot today!
  • JGavJGav ✭✭✭
    Finished off last week with 15km slow (9mm).  Spent the morning supporting my wife at Blenheim, her first tri and 10 weeks after giving birth.  I'm an incredibly proud husband.  The drive both ways 2 1/2 hours plus 3 hours of childcare with my three in the heat and supporting was not the best prep for a run but I needed it to make the weekly target.  Only the though that this week is the cut back week before I go to 30mpw kept me going.

    Just signed up to St Neots Half - always sells out quickly and it's the same day as a friends wedding but I've persuaded a bunch of friends to do it so now I have to as well.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    Good to hear from you Alehouse.

    Andrew, Yes, next mara is London 20. I think in the longer term scheme of things, a different approach for 6-8 months will do me good.

    Jgav, well done to the wife, so soon after giving birth! So will you do the run then have time to make the wedding?

    There are some excellent points in that article. The thing that baffles me is that people seem to lose concept of time in a marathon and decide that whilst they are probably in 3.07 shape they just as well go for sub 3!. That's nearly 20s per mile. If you were in sub 40 10k shape just, but decided you just as well go for sub 38, you know it isn't going to end well!!

    Oddly the article fails to mention for me the biggest mistake. The failure on race day to sit tight and pace to plan. MP can feel almost effortless in an actual mara for the first 15m so people nudge the pace on to 'bank time'. 10s a mile too fast from miles 10-14 might not trouble you then, but it'll get you in the last 4. Save going 10s a mile too fast for miles 22-26.

    I made parkrun Saturday. Planned to just nip under 19. I was a bit sore from Thursday night 14 and my first circuit training class in many years on Friday morning. It was apparent quite soon that I wasn't on it and completely capitulated in mile 3 and came in 19.24. Still, a decent session, which ultimately was the purpose of going.

    Welsh castles relay this sunday, hoping to repeat last years top 10 finish on my leg.

  • JGavJGav ✭✭✭
    I agree that it missed the pacing mistake.  I see it even in HMs, people go flying out of the blocks and I get passed by loads in the first mile.  Either they're starting too far back or they're going to crash and I'll pass them later on.

    I have an issue with the article in that it calls different training methodologies 'mistakes' there no issue running long runs slower than mara pace or attempting high mileage training.  It does redeem itself when it says that a long run could/should have a mara paced section in the middle.

    Good luck for the relays.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    yes fair point. Historically, I have always done a separate session at mp and kept my long runs at easy. This year however I did do more mixed pace long runs and they do help, they are just a tremendous training toll on the body. 20 is tiring but 20 with 12-15 at mp is much more so.

    Most people suffer in the last 6 miles due to lack of endurance. I agree a proper long run every week isn't the key but generally those that do 7 will fair better than their equal who does 3. Likewise, those that run 50m a week will tend to fair better than their equal running 35.

    The balance of course is actually making the start line.

  • JGavJGav ✭✭✭
    A nice 5 miles at lunch, some at target MP 4.50m/km ish - some drizzly rain to keep it cool.  This easy week is a doddle... 

  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    I had a pleasant 7 in pouring rain yesterday. Bit of a session over lunchtime then just some easy stuff building to sunday's race.
  • JGavJGav ✭✭✭
    DT19 said:
    I had a pleasant 7 in pouring rain yesterday. Bit of a session over lunchtime then just some easy stuff building to sunday's race.
    What session?

    Mine was supposed to be a rest day but wfh and a friend asked if I wanted to do some trails.  I agreed to 5 miles, well 7 miles and 140m (450ft) of elevation later... 
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    It was 8 x 3 min at 10kp with 1 minute easy float recovery. I just cant hit paces right now. Average for the 31 mins was 6.42 for about 4.6 miles but my fastest  3 min rep pace was 6.20. More like hmp really. Just have to accept peak fitness has faded now. 
  • alehousealehouse ✭✭✭
    Well done at the Welsh Castles, I see, DT!

    Half a dozen weeks of decent training here so may back off a little. Two parkruns to report: June 1 ran the harder local course in 22:53; June 8 ran the easier local course in 23:43. Harder course was quicker as the weather was good and I put a bit of effort in; the softer course the weather was foul and I put very little effort in!
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    Thanks, was a decent enough run. Whilst there isn't a huge amount of elevation on that leg it is pretty much nearly 8 miles in a straight line running almost permanently, gradually upwards. Of course there is a 50/50 chance on head or tail wind which you have all the way and as you are running towards Cardiff/coast it always seems to be a head wind.

    Nice work on the parkruns.

    I need to start getting back to normal training ready for the Magor 10k at end of July. To much stopping and starting since London for taper, recovery then a series of minor races.

  • JGavJGav ✭✭✭
    edited June 14
    A tasty 6x800m off 90 seconds all run at faster than 10k pace (actually faster than my 5k pb pace) of 6.23mm.  Just a 10 miler at the weekend to complete my first 30 mile week in a long time.  Building distance nicely and legs appear to be coping better and better.

    Edit - also down nearly 2kgs so moving in the right direction.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    I find I feel worst at the entry stages of training and wonder how I will possibly cope with the serious stuff but with a gradual build up it just sneaks up on you without noticing it.

    I need to shift a few lb now.

    Another poor session for me last night. Was 3 x 2m at hmp, progressing to 10k off 2 minutes. First set came in high 6.20s so within range but it felt harder work than it should. My legs just felt empty. Mile 3 came in at 6.14 and felt good so I thought it was on, then I just died away with mile 4 being a sufferfest in 6.39. I debated not doing the next set but felt it was a dangerous precedent to set for myself so just resolved to take it steady. Mile 5 came in at 6.29 so not a disaster then I just crashed and burnt with a 6.45.

    May be just that I had Sundays race still in me as I went to the well in that. I am racing quite well post London, I just can't seem to replicate it in training. I guess it's a better problem than the opposite.

  • JGavJGav ✭✭✭
    I always find the knees hurt the first 10 mins of any run where I've had more than a single day off.  Sounds like a reasonable session even if not up to your usual standards.

    I did my first 10 miler yesterday, mostly 5.20m/km but last few progressed up to 4.50m/km (roughly MP).  Slightly easier week with target of 34k, racing a 10k on Sunday (first at that distance for 2 years)!!!  Can't wait to see how I can go, will try for a 41.
  • alehousealehouse ✭✭✭
    Very niggly last week so backed off a bit. As a consequence I was probably a bit fresher at parkrun and ran my quickest for exactly 2 years. 22:26 for 74.74% still leaves me over a minute behind where I was though.
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • JGavJGav ✭✭✭
    alehouse said:
    22:26 for 74.74% 
    Cracking WAVA but now I realise that you're a fair bit more experienced than me.  I get low 60s for a 21min
  • alehousealehouse ✭✭✭
    One advantage in being old, JGav! And don't start off too quickly in your 10k!
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • JGavJGav ✭✭✭
    edited June 17
    Wondered if anyone has any thoughts on splitting the long run.  Morning and evening and maybe 2/3 run in the morning.  I'm thinking about how to minimise impact to Sunday family time and not being wrecked for the whole day.  

    E.g. later on in the plan,  morning 20km evening 12km.  
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    Decent wava, Alehouse and fastest in 2 years isn't to be sniffed at. I'd need around 18.40 for that wava, so not far off my 5k best.

    JGav, there was an article I read recently, perhaps via here or the fast running page about running twice per day. One of the biggest challenges with training for a mara and a young family is the time of the long run. I don't think you are getting the same from the run splitting it and it is the most important run of the schedule. Even running it well within myself, during the summer months with extra warmth it does take a lot out of you post run plus then the actual running time.

    I have found in the summer that the answer can be getting it done on say a Thursday evening. It is light long enough and cooler then and it doesn't impact on family stuff so much. Young kids are in bed by 8 so it is just a matter of accepting you won't be about to see them that evening. You don't then have to spend hours and hours wanting to put your feet up as you can go to bed not long afterwards.

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