The Middle Ground

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  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    Espen-

    1. The general rule I see is that if you start out following a schedule and get 75% of it done then you are in a reasonable place. If life means you have to rejig structure here and there then so be it. Remember the schedule wasn't written with you in mind. The useful thing for me in using a coach is that before a block we will speak on a macro level and note in any major interferences such as weekends away etc, things you know months in advance. Then we will look at things to put the schedule together on a fortnightly block to factor in smaller interference. Asa my coach said, nobody became unfit by running miles. Don't shoehorn, just take what you can. There are certain sessions that are key such as a 20 miler that needs to be done at some point, but as long as you are consistent over the time and don't overload to chase lost runs you will be fine.

    2. Depends what is in your schedule for that week. If you can go 3 times for a limited period then just remain true to the spirit of that weeks plan ie, don't just decided to make it 3 sessions of hard intervals.


    3. 3 x 3k (though you've not said what rest period between sets) at 10kp is a big session and you should feel cooked after it. With the 10 x 400 (again not sure what rest between reps?) is an incomparable session as you aren't running at any point long enough to really really stress your systems in same way as 3k at 10kp. It might also be that you have shorter distance bias?.

  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭
    DT - not sure what has caused it to be honest, it’s just crept up on me over the last few weeks. I started a new job in April which involves quite a bit more driving, so I wonder if that hasn’t helped? Anyway, we’ll see what the fizz says tonight.

    On the plus side, I managed 2 miles this afternoon at 9mm pace without collapsing! Back felt ok, but then it is always the morning when it feels worse.
  • JGavJGav ✭✭✭
    AndrewD - My new job is also going to be a lot more driving, 50miles each way past Heathrow!!!  Need to figure out my training because fitting it in will be a lot more difficult.

    13.5k this morning - body still feels like its recovering after last week's virus.
  • espenhbespenhb ✭✭✭
    JGav - 50 mile commute each way? What about driving part of it and running the rest? Or take the bike?

    DT19 - Thanks for your reply :) 

    The schedule was written with me in mind, as I wrote it ;) But I get what you're saying. For both of those two «weird» weeks I'll get the intensity in as planned and cut back on the slow runs if need be. 

    Rest is about a minute and thirty for the 400m repeats and 5 minutes for the 3x3k. I'll see how next week plays out. Might be that I'm just overshooting a bit on the intensity as well. I tend to forget to slow down a bit when I got the pack on for the commute, so that might also be part of it when I think about it.
  • JGavJGav ✭✭✭
    Yes 50 miles each way - the challenge of being a consultant, I'm going to be there until at least October and possibly longer.  I may stay over one night and so will be able to get in a long run in the evening.
  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭
    Got through another 3.5 miles last night, felt more comfortable than the day before. My back is a bit stiff again this morning though.
  • JGavJGav ✭✭✭
    Great run today, 13.5k hilly ish and ran at MP (around 5m/km).  Sped up at went up to 4.35m/km for the final 3k and felt strong.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    Espen- I question whether your recovery there is too long. You are giving yourself almost enough time to completely recover. If I do a 3 x 2m session the longest recovery I'll have is 3 mins, more usually 2 mins.

    How's the back now, Andrew? What did fizz say?

    Nice enough session, Jgav. Are you back and recovered from illness now?

    I had a relatively big week last week (compared to recent months) with 45m, 2 sessions and 3 decent x training sessions. 8 X 1K off 90s on Tuesday aiming for between 10k and 5k pace. It was a bit warm and I managed it for the first 4 reps, then made do with hitting 10k pace.

    Hilly/easy 8m Thursday and then my first tempo in a while of 7m following a wu. Had mid 6.30s in my head so was pleased to finish with 6.35 average with every mile a couple of seconds either side of average pace. Hr was 161 so essentially my go to mp session/hr so quite pleased to be coming in at that speed. Essentially if my mara time is to progress, sub 6.40 needs to be my next mp.

    Finished the week off with an easy 12 miler yesterday.

    quieter week this week with a race on Saturday.

  • JGavJGav ✭✭✭
    That's a lot of training DT - do you think you're still making improvements?

    I did 10 miles up the Thames path, all easy pace of course.  Probably recovered but getting back up to distance before I add in any faster paced work.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    edited July 23

    Well, this year so far I've run a 2 min mara pb and an 11s, 5m pb and covered a half in my fastest average pace, missing a pb by 9s (my pb course measured about 80m less) so I think I am. Plus i'm older and running better.

    I feel I am more likely to make gains in the 10m to mara distances than 5 and 10k. I have a mental block the closer to sub 6mm I get which is what i'll need to maintain to really get much better at those distances.

  • JGavJGav ✭✭✭
    DT19 said:

    I feel I am more likely to make gains in the 10m to mara distances than 5 and 10k. I have a mental block the closer to sub 6mm I get which is what i'll need to maintain to really get much better at those distances.

    I definitely feel that improving at the longer distances makes more sense, well the training effect to improved performance.  It's the ability to hold threshold pace for longer and longer periods of time.  Actually raising pace at VO2max is a bit of a dark art to me.  I've made some gains over the last few years yet my 5k hasn't changed all that much.  I've got closer to 20mins but the 4m/km just feels like a barrier I can't cross.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    jgav, I had the same for several years with the 4 min/k thing over 10k. I just couldn't get passed it. When I did though, it was a bit of a floodgate moment.

    I have been battling the sub 6mm thing in the same way for 2 years now. In 2 years my 5k pb has reduced by 6 seconds and my 10k, maybe 30s, but my marathon by 7 minutes and my half by nearly 2 minutes.

  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭
    DT - physio said it is just an inflammation of one of the lower back joints and needs 2 or 3 more sessions. Got another one tomorrow. Need to get it sorted and back into running soon though or I’ll be right back at square one fitness wise ☹️
  • alehousealehouse ✭✭✭
    Local 5k series yesterday evening: rather warm. Phone said it was 31 with a feel like temp of 34.  Still perspiring today! Somewhat humid!
    59 seconds slower than last time but seemed a harder effort. Looking at the results most people seem slower, and was 2nd in age group and a higher position. Didn't feel great all the way round and unusually quite a few passed me in the last 2k. I guess you just have to accept the conditions and get on with it...but wouldn't have run but for the fact that it was part 3 of a 4 part series. 


    Hope you are soon sorted, AD
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    Alehouse, well done on racing last night. I did 4 miles on the treadmill at the gym and was dripping in sweat.

    Magor 10k tomorrow morning. I have a race plan I am going to try and stick too which is to go through 5k in 19.10 by sitting at 6.10 pace from the start instead of running a 5.55 first mile then hopefully run the next 5k a few seconds faster. It worked in the marathon and I saw someone pace another runner around me at my last 10k in a similar manner and he passed me at 7k and ended up beating me by 20 seconds.

  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    tough morning. Possibly the inky pkace in the uk basking in sunshine and i have the running vest sunburn to prove it. Different finish meant it measured 6.25 which didnt help. Went through 5k in 19.11, smack on plan. A 6.11 mile 4 also on plan, but then insttead of nudging the pace up i gave in to the warm sunshine and posted a 6.16 and 6.13. Came in 38.44 so 26s off pb, though my pb was set on a course that measured 6.15. 

    It's a seasons best and good to reguster a sub 39 for 4th year running. Some holidaying to be had now then September i have 12 weeks to really concentrate on 10k training for Telford. 
  • alehousealehouse ✭✭✭
    Sorry that you didn't get what you planned, DT, which I thought was spot on! I wouldn't be surprised if you still passed people the whole way round! And make sure you pack your kit on holiday! I used to find short sharp runs in the sun were the best way to go when away!

    In total contrast today it has rained pretty well the whole time; it was raining when I got up, rained for parkrun warm up but stopped for the run itself. Incredibly humid though. Started raining again at 9:30 and stopped around an hour ago...but it is now raining. Typical cricket weather I guess! Oh, and just ran parkrun in a nice and easy 24:05 and wouldn't have broken sweat if it hadn't have been for the humidity!
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • JGavJGav ✭✭✭
    Well done on that sub 39 DT19, it's a tough time of yearn to race, the heat and humidity are ridiculous.

    Nice running Alehouse, parkrun in the rain doesn't sounds like my kind of Saturday morning fun.

    My running consistency has taken a knock with the new job, struggling to get mid-week shorter runs in given I'm now commuting up to 1h45 each way and working longer hours.  Managed 16k (10 miles) Monday morning and 28k (17.5 miles) this afternoon.  Glad my long runs are getting longer, it felt manageable at long run pace, tried pushing up to target race pace for the last 4k but didn't quite have it, was about 10s/km off but not a bad effort really.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Alehouse, yes i started up top as chip timing was only on the finish line so need to get going fast. Nobody passed me after about 600m and yes i just moved from group to group. Though i didnt pass anyone after 7k. Only 4 of us finished with a 38.xx so there weren't really folk to pass. i was running with 1st lady to 4k and she came in 40s behind me. 

    Holiday wise, ive made a late decision to join family in lanzarote next Friday to Monday. They go this Monday . I'll run friday before i fly but then sat and Sunday are my only full days there do wont whilst there. Then 2 weeks later im in Florida for just over 2 weeks. We have a gym at our villa complex so plan to tick over with short runs there. 
  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭
    Well done with the 10k DT - it may not have been a pb, but probably would have been if it had measured the same distance as your pb course? Enjoy your holidays!

    JGav - that is a long commute! I thought mine was quite bad at 45 mins each way! Couldn’t imagine one of 1hr45! Good running nonetheless!

    Alehouse - well done on the parkrun. It rained here from 8am Saturday to the early hours of Sunday with only a break of about 2 hours around 2pm. Needless to say, my cricket was called off early!

    The plus side of no cricket, was that I was fresh enough to run today. 4 miles at just sub9 pace. That makes a mighty 7 miles for the week! Looking for double figures this week coming up 😂

    My daughter’s school are doing a fun run in October to raise funds, with a 5k for adults and a 1k race for the kids (pre school year up to year 2). My daughter says she wants us both to do the runs (good girl!) so I started her ‘training’ today with a lap of the block measuring  0.18 miles! Bearing mind she is still only 3, she ran the whole way without giving up and did it in 2.30. I was quite proud of her and hope it’s the first run of a lifelong love of running! Will try her doing slightly further each Sunday until race day!
  • alehousealehouse ✭✭✭
    AD: definitely cricket weather here...i.e. it is still raining! Lots of roads closed due to flooding and the river at the end of my road looks like it will break its banks...and that is before the rain from the Pennines has reached these parts! Fortunately I'm about 20 metres higher than the river and there is a flood basin that will no doubt be used...and cut out all my off road running for a while! Was 33 the other day and is now 13!
    Be careful with little one and running! Treat it as very much a game and let her take the lead. 

    JGav: that commute is a pain but obviously must be worth it career-wise! Important to get into a routine, i.e. consistent consistency, but in some jobs it is not always possible. I wouldn't worry too much about pace: miles (or kilometres!) are key. I used to park up not far from home and run: if I got home I would inevitably not be able to get out!
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭
    Don’t worry Alehouse - I’ll be keeping it fun for her! She was just excited to do it, and I do just want to try and make sure she can complete 1k when the time comes! 


  • JGavJGav ✭✭✭
    45 minutes being a long commute AndrewD, that's considered short in London.  I hope it's worth it, managing to make it work better this week.

    Staying in a hotel near the client's office so got a cheeky 10k down the Thames path after work.  26min out and 23min back, deliberate pacing obvs.
  • alehousealehouse ✭✭✭
    Hope your back is better than mine, AD
    The other day was knocked over in the supermarket and landed badly on my back. Scan yesterday showed fracture in the sacrum part of the spine, just above the coccyx. Literally a pain! Saw GB team doctor (and spoke with another one!) and am allowed to run, but it has to be gentle and flat. 8 to 12 weeks to heal, with physio support. 
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭
    Blimey Alehouse, your run of bad luck with injury continues! Hope the fizz is correct and it recovers in that timescale and you can run in the meantime! 
  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭
    Back is feeling gradually better, although still sore in bed and first thing in the morning is a bit stiff too (ooh err!).

    4.5 miles today in some very humid conditions! Pleased to complete it though. Onwards and, hopefully, upwards!
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    To be fair, most of my body is stiff these days when I get out of bed. I think that is part of being 40 something!

    Back last night from a long weekend in Lanzarote so back to it today with an easy 6m.

  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭
    Yes, i’m starting to feel my age! Aches seem to appear more often and take longer to go away now I’m closer to 40 than 30!

    3 miles today, felt pretty comfortable at about an 8.45 average pace. Rest tomorrow then trying for another run on Thursday.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    Reasonable week last week with a couple of sessions and a 14m yesterday.

    Targeting a parkrun smash Saturday. Planning to hit Walsall parkrun as most people consider that it's the fastest in the west mids.

    JGav, how are you progressing?

  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭
    Since my last update, I’ve been signed off by the physio and completed 3 more short runs. The back stil feels a bit tender at times (especially around the hip) but I can’t justify £50 a week for physio when the pain isn’t all that bad and I can now run ok again without pain!
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