The Middle Ground

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  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    You'd be surprised. Toast and jam, banana and oj at breakfast. Snack on rice cakes and scotch pancakes, 2 x uncle bens egg fried rice as early and late lunch, carb dinner like spag bol, percy pigs as sweet treats as very carb dense. You can do it on 3k calories.  

    As i say, it's taken me 7 goes to find what works for me. Unfortunately the first mara is very much a such snd see job. 
  • JGavJGav ✭✭✭
    Work team went to Nandos for lunch, so sweet potato wrap and chips.  Solid effort there.
  • JGavJGav ✭✭✭
    Followed by a solid mid morning snack of malt loaf.  It strange eating like this whilst not doing much exercise.  I'm assuming it's working as it should.  No GI issues and I'm not overeating.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    yes, it is a complete shift in everything you would normally do.

    You'll find out on sunday if it's working!!

  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Good luck, jgav. If you never listen to anything else i say, listen to the advice on not thinking a faster than planned pace feels really easy in the first 20 and just going with it!!
  • alehousealehouse ✭✭✭
    Go well JGav! DT wrote more or less what I was going to say!
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • JGavJGav ✭✭✭

    Did it, I finished but it wasn’t pretty.

    Was more confident at the start so did the first half in 1.45, figured I’d be able to hold onto 3.45 if that was too fast. Slowed a little to 5.05/5.10m/km after 25k big hill at 29k but managed it then completely imploded from 31k. Bit of a death march to the finish. 40mph headwinds along the beach front completely sapped whatever energy I had left, the right turn into Poole was brutal, nearly came to a complete stop with the wind (kite surfers were out en masse having a great time).

    Managed to drag myself back along the beach front to finish in 3.56.04, had to give myself lots of stern talking tos and set landmarks to run to. . Nevertheless I’m very pleased I hold onto the sub 4 for a debut.

  • JGavJGav ✭✭✭
    And no I didn't see your post until now 🙈
  • alehousealehouse ✭✭✭
    Well toughed out, JGav! Conditions don't sound great!
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    edited October 6
    well done, jgav. the first mara is generally regarded as a great big experiment. It's  hard to explain quite how ridiculously hard a marathon is when you are suffering. One has to try it to see! 

    I can empathise with the coastal wind issues. i faired little better in the south west at Burnham. i kind of knew i was in pb shape or that close to it so set out at 6.30 pace. Sadly the only time with a tailwind were first 3 miles. I dpent the next 5 clinging onto low 6.30s thinking the next bend will give a tail wind nut it never came. At 8m i was completely alone, literally not able to see anyone in front or behind and it was apparent i wasnt turning it around so threw in the towel and plodded in for 1.27 and 16th place. 

    Shame as i travelled a long way so a lot of time was invested. 
  • JGavJGav ✭✭✭
    edited October 7
    Thanks Alehouse, as DT19 said it was a lot of experimenting as I'd never been past 20 miles.  Thinking about it now, I'm pleased I was so strong until that point give that I'd found training runs past the 16 mile mark quite tough.

    That sounds like a hard day at the office DT19.

    I know my downfall was the inability to spread out training throughout the week better.  I did far too much of my weekly mileage in the long run.  Change in job has made training for long distance stuff tricky. 

    Giving myself 1 week to recover then I'm going to start hammering out some tempo, 10k and HM paced sessions.  St. Neots half on the 17th November and after last year where I missed out on sub 90.  I know I have the base fitness to race a half but definitely need to work on speed endurance.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    Jgav, as you didn't see my one bit of advice above, I am entitled to offer you another bit of advice that you should follow even if you never listen to anything else I ever tell you.

    What you have just done will have done all sorts of damage to your body. Whilst by next week the doms will have cleared and you might feel ok there will be all sorts of underlying damage in the tendons and ligaments. You have to respect what you have just done and let your body recover or you WILL get injured and you will keep getting niggles for months and be wondering why.

    I do very little for 2 weeks then spend 2 weeks building back up. I wouldn't be hammering any sessions for a couple of weeks at least and would start off with some tempos at mara pace.

  • JGavJGav ✭✭✭
    Yes sir, I will behave and not push it too much.
  • alehousealehouse ✭✭✭
    I disagree with DTJGav! I think you need longer than 2 weeks of gentle running before building up again! Don't worry too much about November 17th! Put it out of your mind, which is easier said than done! Most of the training for that is already banked. You will lose nothing fitness-wise with some gentle easy running; anything harder and you may well be joining me on the bench. 
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭
    Yes, don’t join us on the bench JGav! 

    I’m not really injured as such, just grossly unfit after months of little or no running. I do want to get back into it but at the moment the combination of family (including a 5 week old), busy work and rubbish weather is making it hard to find the time and/or inclination to get out!

    I will do though, eventually, but do worry that I may need 2 years to get back to pb shape if indeed I can ever get back there.

    On a lighter note, you may recall in the summer I said I’d done some little jogs with our nearly 4 year old as she had a school fun run coming up? Sadly the weather meant the school cancelled the race on safety grounds yesterday morning but she said to me she still wanted to do the run so me and her went out and did 1km around the local roads instead - she ran the whole way with a big smile on her little face and clearly had great fun! Made me smile anyway 🙂
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    alehouse, I was playing to my audience.... I didn't think JGAV would listen to me if I went longer! Plus I factored in his age and thought he would recover quicker.

    Andrew, it is much easier to get back to pb shape than to get it in the first place so I doubt it'll take quite that long.

    That's nice going with your daughter. It's good to get kids into that active mentality early on.

  • JGavJGav ✭✭✭
    Ha, well legs finally feel better and I've got my leg and core strength back.  Would have run either Wed or Thur but didn't have the time.  Did a turbo bike ride today and it felt great. 

    Going to take the next week to add in some shorter, easy runs whilst I get back into it.  However, with mara finished I'll be doing more mixed training with bike, core and strength work over the winter.  Mrs and I have a plan to do 2xcore/balance sessions a week.

    I've tried to get my eldest running a little but it's really not for her (she loves cycling though!) . Well done on getting out there with your little one.
  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭
    Done a couple of short runs this week - the aerobic side doesn’t feel too bad considering, but the legs aren’t at the races at all. Just got to work at it each week I suppose and it will come back.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    I've been ticking over. Bit of a session today of 10 x 800m off 45s at 10kp. Average run pace was 6.10mm so pretty much bang on. 45s is not very long I learnt today!!

    I think my son would be a pretty good runner. We had a kids race at our local 10k this year and he finished a good minute ahead of all the other kids in his school year that we knew. However with rugby on a sunday we can't make junior parkrun to test and progress and with football and tennis also I can't fit in athletics as he would be too tired.

  • JGavJGav ✭✭✭
    Back at it after a deliberate break eating my weight in pastries.  5 miles last night average just under 8mm.

    Good luck getting your son into running, I'm trying but failing with my 6yo daughter.  I know with girls it gets so much harder when they go to secondary school.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    My 6 yo daughter is very non-sporty. We try to encourage her but won't push it.

    8M yesterday lunchtime with a rare dip into sub 8mm territory for an easy run. Followed that up with Spin last night which I kept very light and used just to really flush the legs out.

  • JGavJGav ✭✭✭
    DT19 said:

    My 6 yo daughter is very non-sporty. We try to encourage her but won't push it.

    She loves cycling, so will focus on that instead.  Which reminds me that she's grown out of her bike already and I must get her a new/better one.
  • alehousealehouse ✭✭✭
    So, cast self-discipline aside yesterday and decided to run 5k without a number on, but in the company of others in a park at 9 a.m. No warm up apart from some stretching: wasn't convinced that I would be able to make the full 5k, never mind 5k plus a warm up!
    Set off steadily with 6:10 for the first km. A long stretch of ankle deep water helped slow the pace. Latched on to someone I knew who has also been injured and we gradually upped the pace and passed over 60 before the end. Stopped the clock at 26:16 so have to be happy with that given all that has gone on over the last 2 months. That was actually my longest run in that time. Slight reaction today in that both hamstrings are a bit tight, which is no surprise. Frustrating though that I have lost over 4 minutes since the sacrum fracture.

    Legs ok, JGav?

    Back into it, AD?

    Can't remember what's next, DT!

    Meant to mention PRF, previously of this thread, completed his 500th parkrun the other week: first person to do it on NZ soil! That's 10 years of getting up to run at 9 a.m. on a Saturday morning; he has run at a couple of hundred different venues. Now based in Auckland.
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭
    Hi Aley, nice work with the run in a park! 

    In answer to your question, still only getting out here and there for short runs, but I think that is ok for now and I’ll increase again once our baby daughter is old enough to be a bit more predictable and past the ‘grumpy in the evenings phase’!
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    Alehouse, got to see you back pushing it!!

    As things stand the next target is the Derby 10m mid November then Telford 10k early December. However there is a local 10k a week Sunday which I've done the last 2 years and picked up the v40 prize and it is also my pb course. I am going to do that provided I have no good reason to go out drinking from 8am the day before to watch a home nation in the rugby world cup final!

  • JGavJGav ✭✭✭
    Well done Alehouse

    Good luck for the 10m, its a distance I really fancy trying but the Mrs has booked the next local 10m race (Fred Hughes in St Albans) and there just aren't that many around.

    I'm doing bits and pieces but no plan and enjoying myself.  I did a chase the rabbit challenge with a fellow (slower) runner on Sunday which was see how long it would take me to lap him on an 800m loop.  A decent session for both of us.  It took just 2.5k where I was holding sub 4m/km pace, pretty pleased. 
  • JGavJGav ✭✭✭
    Went out this morning for a bimble.  Decided to do a stretch at HM pace to see how it feels.  Even though it was no more than a mile it felt difficult to get up to that effort level.  Is that normal?  2 1/2 weeks post mara now.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    Chase the rabbit? Not heard of that. Is it an organised thing?

    Yes, I recall after my first mara, I raced a 5 miler 5 weeks later and whilst I wasn't struggling aerobically at all, I juts couldn't run faster than hmp. It was bizarre as I was going as fast as I physically could but at same time was almost controlled and comfortable.

    Had a decent week with 4m recovery and spin Monday, 3 x 2m at hmp-10kp off 2 mins Tuesday which went pretty well (6.15/6.17, 6.04/6.12 and 6.04/6.22 (I had to stop dead and turn around with 0.3m to go as I was running too far from work and that killed it).

    9m hilly/easy mlr last night now 5 at mp tonight before I head off on a mini staycation to Edinburgh.

  • JGavJGav ✭✭✭
    No, not an organised thing. Just an idea another local runner came up with.  Would be better round a track.  

    I really like the idea of pairing up with a runner to do alternate 400s, faster you go the less rest they get and hopefully they slow down.  It's all in balance.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    Been away for most of the last week in Edinburgh.

    yes, when I used to do club sessions we would often do the pairing up track sessions.

    Finished last week off on Thursday with a standard 5 at mp/160 bpm run. Decided I would just sit at mara pb pace (6.44) and see what hr that delivered. Came out at 154 bpm which is pretty low for that session.

    Got a 14 miler in yesterday as was home and off work and it saves me trying to do it sunday after a day of beers with the rugby Saturday.

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