The Middle Ground

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  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Alehouse, have you seen that even the Wrexham elite mara that was created to be covid safe has now been postponed and probably cancelled. Yes in 2 hours time I'm off to a footy match locally with up to 600 allowed in. 

    Is that wrist or chest hr? I wouldn't say £16 was too much. Problem is there has yo be a base cost, so yes you get less value from a 5k compared to a 10k but much of the event running cost is the same regardless of distance. 

    Did 6x4 min yesterday with 90s jog recovery do more a fartlek. I was on a mildly undulating course so just worked hard. Spin then this morning. 

    Having just had agreement from lufthansa that they'll refund my berlin flights (£211)  I treated myself this morning to a pair of alphafly. Managed to get on at 8am and grab a pair before they were all gone at 8.05! 
  • Wrist HR monitor DT. 

    Feeling a bit delicate today - yesterday was the end of the cricket season and I took a 7for including a hat trick so ended up in the bar (outside) for a little longer than usual! 6.30 wake up from youngest child didn’t feel great 🤢

    Trying to recover enough to do my long run this evening.
  • 6.5 miles - done. Knackered!
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    edited September 13
    Well done on getting out, Andrew.

    I missed my 8am slot as we all slept in and i had junior rugby at 10. Ended up going out at midday which my plan all work was  to avoid  due to weather. Took it very easy first half to avoid over heating then just slowly nudged the pace incrementally 2nd half so ended up 8.03 average without feeling troubled for the 13m. 

    My first 40m week since my return. 
  • Great work at the cricket, AD! A memorable day! And well done on the longer run. 

    All sounds good, DT! Will you consolidate around 40 for a while?

    Another 50k week for me, including 2 short sessions. That's over 50k for 14 out of the last 17 weeks, and 8 out of the last 8. Trying to be consistent!
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • Well done both - great consistent training!

    To round off my tiring day yesterday we got woken about 7 times during the night by the baby - the reason became apparent when we got her up this morning, a streaming nose. The eldest has a cold too, within days of being back at school, so I'm just waiting for the symptoms to hit me. In the meantime, working from home sat in the garden on the laptop enjoying the end of year sunshine!

    Rest day from running today.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    Andrew, my son was off Friday with it then my wife came down with it Friday night. I've not had anything so far. It's a bit like when a child first starts school or nursery, they have a limited immune system so catch everything, however this time it's every child in the country at the same time.

    That's some decent consistency, Alehouse. Yes, it might float between 40 and 45 but I see no reason as yet to push on. My fitness is returning doing what i'm doing so need to force more right now.

  • Sleep was even worse last night - screaming every 20-30 minutes or so right through until about 3am when she finally crashed out until 7. She did seem happier and less snotty this morning though, so fingers crossed she may be a bit better tonight.

    Anyway, onto running - I am scheduled to have an intervals session tonight (3x800m off 400m jog), but given the combo of tiredness and a mini heatwave, I'm not expecting great things! Might rejig the week and switch this session to tomorrow instead.

    Finally, on an injury - for the past few weeks the very top of my right tibia (directly below where it joins the knee) has been feeling really bruised, to the point that sometimes if I'm kneeling on the floor dealing with changing nappies etc I yelp out in pain if I kneel on the wrong spot. I initially thought I must have banged it or jarred it, but as it hasn't cleared up in weeks despite regular icing, I'm starting to wonder if it may be something more long term (shin splints, stress fracture?) that I need to see a physio about. It doesn't seem to impact my running (or bowling in cricket) but does occasionally hurt a little in the first 3 or 4 minutes of a warm up before it settles down, Any thoughts?
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    Andrew, so so glad the lottery of going to bed and staying asleep isn't an issue for me now!!

    As for the pain, having recently had a stress fracture, and probably in a far less impactive area than the tibia, if it were that I think you'd know a lot more about it. Also, a stress fracture takes quite a lot of stress to form and i'm not sure you've destroyed yourself sufficiently for that.

    Now, I have a paid on the outside of my left knee that came on 2 weeks ago which sounds very similar to yours, and in fact my physio initially said I had probably knocked it. Subsequently she has said it is the insertion point of the IT band as my left hand side has been getting tight (hence the need for physio). I have been treated it quite aggressively this last week with stretching, foam rolling, ice, anti infamy gel and it has eased off quite considerably in the last few days.


    4m recovery yesterday and spin last night then 5m easy this morning before it got warm.

  • Don't speak too soon about sleep, DT! And I would have an easy run and rearrange your week, AD!

    Can't help with the pain in the leg issue, AD, but before I read on I immediately thought that the bowling may be the cause. As you won't be bowling for a while, I wonder if it will disappear? 

    15 mins warm up (and warm down) this morning before 6 x 30 seconds uphill, hard, with 60 seconds jog recovery. Part 1 of step 6 of my 16 step speed plan. Still felt like an old man trying to sprint...but I am an old man trying to sprint! Number 5 of the 6 was probably the fastest that I have sprinted in years! 
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • Thanks both - yes, I did think the same as you DT (ie. I haven't been doing nearly enough miles etc for it to be a stress fracture, or even shin splints really) and the same as you Alehouse, perhaps the bowling is the cause and it will now clear itself up over the winter? I think I'll keep an eye on it and if it hasn't resolved itself in a few weeks then book a physio appointment.

    Also, DT - 'anti-infamy gel' - great predictive text typo! I'm sure there's a few celebs and politicians who wish they could have some of this!
  • Intervals session completed last night - was still pretty humid, but not as bad as it would have been on Monday/Tuesday. 3x800m off 400m jog - all 3 reps came in spot on 6.46mm pace.

    Nice easy run planned tonight. Been icing my tibia since the weekend too, and it feels a bit better. Will be interesting to see if it continues to improve. No cricket now, so hopefully that will help.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    Nice work Andrew.

    I moved my intervals from Tuesday to yesterday only to find that it was 24c and clear blue skies at lunchtime. Meaty old session with 2 x 1m at hmp, 4 x 0.5 at 10kp and 4 x 0.25 at 5k.

    Made sure I controlled the hmp miles at 6.22 and 6.24 as otherwise i'd have put myself in a hole for the rest of the session! The 0.5 reps came out 6.12, 6.08, 6,0 and 6.08. Then the 5k reps 5.56, 5.52, 6.16 (2 sharp climbs) and 5.40 pace.

    Pretty successful session given the heat.

    I've a 5m tempo Friday and I took delivery of a pair of alphaflys on Monday so I am going to give them a test run. Looking forward to it!

  • Hope they are worth the price tag DT!

    Sounds like a very decent session, especially in the heat.

    I may have mentioned that we moved house a couple of months back, and I have found a very handy 0.5m loop nearby for my sessions. Much better than where I had to run to in order to do sessions before. Trouble is, on such a short loop it sometimes means passing the same dog walker, resident etc about 3 times - no funny looks yet though!
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    In the old day when I used to work out of the office and would do my tempos at the race course, you get some funny looks and comments when you are running at a decent click for 10 miles. A lap is 1.85m so i'd see people often on all 5 laps. Usually you see people there plodding along at 8 or 9mm so when suddenly someone is coming round lap after lap at 6.30mm people do have a sense of wonder and start asking you what you are doing.
  • Tempo went well last night - 2x1m and 1x0.5m each off 1 min rest. Paces pretty consistent around 7.14-7.17mm pace, which was target.

    Easy 3 today, as a replacement for cricket. Shame, as it was glorious cricket weather today!

  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Well done, Andrew . Yes today would have been great for a cricket match. I went to watch our local footy team today. They are allowed 600 in. It was a pleasant few hours stood in the sunshine. 

    I find my standard tempo yesterday over lunch. Extended it out to 5m from last weeks 4. Always aim for average hr of 160 on this so a moderate effort level ie more than mp but less thsn hmp. Came out 6.27 mm for 160 dead. Pretty pleased with that as mot a million miles off where I was in march.

    Just spin this morning. 
  • I would guess that for a lot of non league clubs they might be picking up league club fans at the moment so might actually be getting bigger crowds than normal?

    7 mile long run this afternoon.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Yes id guess many who like to attend games will get their fix at non league. Our local club are well supported for the level and routinely get 800 plus fans so whilst for most teams below conference level a limit of 600 won't impact, for clubs like ours it does. 

    Easy half for me over lunch to round off 41m week. 
  • All sounds good with you both, ADDT!

    When Curly started the thread it was at least partly about an exchange of ideas! I note that you both have run a "tempo" recently. I am increasingly confused by the term! Please explain! 

    At one time I considered a tempo for someone aiming for 15 to 16 minutes for 5k to be something like 11-12 minutes at around 90% effort; for someone running 10k in say 33 minutes it would be around 22, perhaps 22 minutes at the most, again around 90% effort. And it is continuous effort. No idea about a tempo for a longer race. 

    So, DT's tempo is currently 5 miles; AD's has rests! Is that Daniels, AD? And I note on another thread someone suggesting for a 20 minute 5k runner the tempo should be around 36 minutes, although qualifies that by saying that the temp should be run around marathon pace, although that doesn't sound like a tempo to me at all! 

    Anyway, just over 50k again last week including 2 part sessions (short hill sprints/2 x 4 mins hard). So that's 9 weeks in a row over 50k, 6 weeks of my faster stuff and 15 out of the last 18 weeks over 50. Obviousy due an injury or illness!
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • Hi Alehouse - I think the term tempo has many different uses, depending on who is using it! 

    I think I really should call it 'threshold' running, as in Daniels that is what it is called.  It is described as being 'comfortably hard' and something that hypothetically you could maintain for an hour without it becoming too hard (although in reality I've never run more than about 30 minutes straight at tempo pace). In practical terms, it comes out at about 15-20 seconds per mile slower than 10k race pace. Not sure what percentage effort level that would be (but my HR on my last threshold run was around 175 by the latter part of each mile).

    Early on in the 5/10k plan, he introduces threshold runs in lower volumes either as shorter blocks split up by rest (he calls these 'cruise intervals') with a higher overall volume; or a single longer block for a shorter volume. So, at the moment I am doing either 1.5 or 2 miles continuous, or 2.5 or 3 miles in cruise interval blocks.

    As you get into phase 4 of the plan (I seem to remember) you drop the cruise intervals and just do progressively longer continuous runs at T pace. I usually max out at about 4 or 4.5 miles at T pace about 10 days before race day.


    Sounds like another good week's training - and a good attempt to 'reverse-jinx' yourself, so as to avoid that injury happening!

    Weather looks to be turning midweek - will make sessions interesting!
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    Yes, the murky world of tempo definitions. I use tempo as any run mp or faster. My 5m run was certainly not at threshold and I would say would have been more HMP or a bit slower based on hrm.

    I tend to run these tempos to 8-10m (i'm just building them back up at present) and so run them at slower than hmp due to the volume and the recovery required. I find that these runs are the ones that really bring me on the most and don't leave me battered for the next  days training.

    5m recovery over lunch.

  • Interesting! Thanks! 

    6.5k easy today. Had to take the car in for some diagnostics this morning so walked for about an hour and a half whilst it was there: developed a niggly hip during that so was cautious with the run. What was I saying about injuries? Hopefully will come to nothing!
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • Careful Alehouse! 

    Bizarrely, after being really painful in the first 5 mins of every run last week, my knee has just stopped hurting since Sunday! Weird.

    3.5 easy tonight.

    The latest work from home edict from Boris should make fitting my runs into the week a bit easier without eating into my evenings so much.
  • No sign of a hip niggle today...and 16.1 km/ 10 miles off road banked. Longest run since I don't know when, plus an hour of stretches. 

    Flexible working hours will be good training-wise over the next six months! I've not worked since March so that must have definitely helped my running... but not the bank balance! 
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • 10’s good - I enjoy my 7 but I know I should be getting it to 10 if possible by Christmas. I think now I can rest on Saturdays rather than play cricket it should leave me fresher on Sundays for longer long runs.

    I wonder if parkrun are reassessing their aim to reopen next month in light of the recent increase in cases? And other races obviously.

    I’m torn on all of this - the virus is obviously to be taken seriously, but life has to go on. Glad I don’t have to make the decisions on what course to take! No win situation.

    More easy running planned tomorrow and then an extra day off on Thursday. It’s a cutback week.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Are you on furlough, Alehouse? Nice 10 miler. 

    I dont believe parkrun ever realistically thought they would get going again in November.  Even the bravest optimist would have been aware that this winter would be carnage and that would start when schools and uni's went back. The problem is the government actively encouraged us to behave like it was all gone away in August with the return to the workplace policy and eat out scheme, it's little wonder that people let their guards down.

    Yes, I think from start people have been focused on 2 waves. I dont quite understand why after that it retreats. Surely we do eventually need to just live with it? 

    Easy 6m yesterday to enjoy the last of summer. Session today at some point. 
  • Just a couple of easy runs for me so far this week, totalling 8 miles. Rest day today.

    Planning a threshold tempo run tomorrow - 2 miles continuous at 7.17mm.

    The plan also has some MP running in the middle of Sunday's longer run - helps to mix it up a bit I suppose.
  • All sounds good, AD

    Technically I am retired, DT, with a couple of pensions, but I do various odds and ends of work (supply teaching, marking exams) all of which dried up...until this morning. New job, mornings only, starting on Monday! Hope it won't affect training too much.

    Talking of which, tired legs initially yesterday after the long run on Tuesday but ok once I got going; restricted it to just over half an hour though. Today saw 7 x 30 seconds uphill with one minute jog recovery. Not as quick as last week but to be expected, not least because it was only 6 degrees. Lots of gear on! Easy day tomorrow probably when I run with my M75 neighbour. Feel sorry for him: he was getting quite fit for his new age group (birthday in early April) but no chance of any races or parkruns. 
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • Tempo went well - 2 mile continuous tempo block. Target pace was 7.17, actual paces were 7.14; 7.11.
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