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The Middle Ground
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I guess we all respond differently.
I am starting to find my rhythm again now. 8m over lunch at 7.58mm, however hr was 131 average. I have about 5 years of data of running this loop and that was by far my best ever pace v hr performance on it.
Disappointed the gyms are closing after tomorrow as I've really found my spin class mojo again since they re-opended, something that became a bit lost for the last 18 months or so. So making the most of it with a bit of overload and spin this evening and then again for a final time (probably for a few months IMO)) tomorrow morning.
I've had a tweak in my lower back since Sunday. The sort that makes putting socks on etc uncomfortable but don't notice when up and moving so I've run through it. I also have physio though on Thursday (at least they arent' being closed down this time!!!) via BUPA as part of my post stress fracture rehab so she'll be able to work the area for me as it's a similar position to the fracture site.
I am going to enter the Dorney Lake mara for Easter Saturday. That's 21 weeks Saturday which given my current shape should see me in great shape in theory. Plus with this lockdown, December won't end up a really disrupted/boozey month as we can't do anything!!
Did an intervals session tonight. First thing to say, it really felt like winter has arrived! Cold and foggy, definitely hat and gloves weather!
Anyway, 3x800m at intervals pace (target 6:30ish pace) off 400m jogged recovery intervals. Paces came in at 6:27; 6:26; 6:23 so I was happy with that. Actual rep times were 3:11, 3:11, 3:09.
Yes, I don't resolutely stick to zones from it and it is more a tool to get a like for like comparison. It is made much easier with the strava Relative Effort score as it allows me to compare runs on the same route where the stats from pace/hr are a bit different.
Some pretty consistent reps there.
I am off out for an easy 6m lunchtime ish.
4 miles last night - kept it nice and slow, so as not to aggravate anything after the appointment.
Warm up, 3 miles at threshold, warm down. 5 miles total.
Threshold target pace is 7:10m/m. The three miles came in at 7:11, 7:12 and 7:07 for a 7:10 average. Felt a bit tough towards the end, but good to get it finished with the quickest mile at the end.
Rest day today then 8 miles long run tomorrow.
Hope your weekends are going well!
I did a lower effort tempo Friday, just because I've not done anything beyond easy for 2 weeks. 6m at 6.38mm gor a ridiculously low 149 hr.
Easy 14m this morning for 45 for week. I'm usually at junior rugby until midday but of bourse that's all on hold so went out about 9.30 which was nice.
Entered the Dorney lake mara yesterday for Easter Saturday so 21 weeks to prepare.
My 8 went ok thanks - in the end! Felt like jacking it in after 2 miles though. Legs weren’t playing ball to start with. Anyway, I worked through it and in the end my last mile was the quickest and I know I could have gone further.
My race has been rescheduled from 29 Nov to 27 Dec (provisionally) which is a pig of a date for a race in my opinion! So I’m in two minds about it.
And yes, I think a time trial is almost due, but it can be anytime around the original race date using the weather to your advantage. If not 5k it could be another repeat of the 3k.
All sounds good, DT. As AD says though it does take some focus to maintain a 21 week block.
Gradually and carefully getting back to things biopsy. Around 50 minutes yesterday, albeit I stopped three times to talk to my back consultant who was out running, my physio and another runner who I have not seen for a while. Around half an hour today to bring up 26k or so for the week. Hip still a bit tender but that is to be expected I guess.
You’re obviously politer than me - I don’t stop on my runs to chat, just a little ‘alright’ as I pass! Maybe I shouldn’t be so rude.
Well done getting back out there, 26k is a good week especially if the hip is still sore. When do you expect the results of the tests?
Yes, I am not sure i'd be too keen on 27th December!!! For me the 23rd-27th are key festivities and I don't think i'd want a race hanging over me on Boxing day.
Good luck with the results, Alehouse. That does seem a fair wait however, understandable right now.
Standard Monday yesterday with a pre work recovery run then some turbo time over lunch followed by strength and conditioning in the evening. Off out this lunchtime to do an interval session, albeit a bit more scaled back again now as won't be racing until January soonest.
In terms of length of time to race day, I am hoping there will be other targets to aim for over January and February to break things up into a few cycles.
Easy 4 planned tonight.
Sounds like a busy (tiring) Monday DT!
Good to get a clear diagnosis.
Session today in pretty perfect conditions. Was 7 x 1k off 1 min, then 3 mins at end before a pretty flat out k. All the 7 reps were pretty controlled coming in between 3.42 and 3.45. Probably should look at moving these on to 3.40 pace and below as the effort is getting less full on interval to more controlled and cruisey. Though no need to Bury myself right now. The last rep then came out at 3.29.
Just an easy 7 tomorrow.
Yes, 8.40 pace is pretty pedestrian for me, it's about 2mm slower than mp. Sorry it was 8 reps, 7 x 1k session then 3 min recovery before the flat out k. I usually do 10 x 1k, but as there's no prospect of a race anytime soon, there's no point stressing the body to that degree. Though, this vaccine news may well be a game changer, particularly for mass events next Autumn. May be too soon for anything in the first half of the year.
Easy 7m today over lunchtime.
Reps came in at 3.12, 3.09, 3.09 (so between 6.22 and 6.28 pace) which matched last week’s very closely, followed by the 400m reps both in 1.30 (so 6.07ish pace).
Pretty happy with that and my legs felt very fresh in the warm down which must be a good sign!
AD: don't be concerned about DT's 10 x 1k sessions: he is training for a different event to you and I!
A couple of things for both of you: I note from elsewhere that you have lost a fair amount of weight, DT! What height are you? And have you lost any, AD? Also, what clothing are you wearing to train in?
I mention these things as was only thinking as I was running today that at this time of the year one of the guys from my club would put on around a stone over the winter and also always wear lots of gear to run in: train heavy in more than one respect, and have a generally relaxed approach to his running in the late autumn/early winter. He would then gradually take the weight off in the spring. I was part of his coaching team and neither that nor the "train heavy, race light" approach did him much harm: 3:53 miler, 2 Olympics, 2 Commonwealths, and one each of Worlds and Europeans. He did get lots of miles, many of them off road, in his legs at this time of year but didn't worry about what he ate or drank: he knew that he couldn't sustain year on year of being careful with his food and drink and the intensity that top level training requires. Something to think about!
Alehouse, i'm 5'8 so to be fair when I have been sat at 11-11'5, as a runner I probably have been a bit too heavy, certainly compared to my peers on a raceday. Therefore my hope is that just under 11 st becomes my new normal weight as I've got there without making any real sacrifice and then in the weeks before a target race I can nudge a few lb off by making sacrifices.
In terms of clothing, it takes a lot to drag me away from shorts and t'shirt so I've not even contemplated digging out the colder weather gear just yet.
I see the point you make, but my counter argument is that when I am out training, given my weekly training load, I look to deplete myself as little as possible by over heating that I can bounce into the next workout.
My relationship with drinking has changed quite a bit in the last year also. I don't look forward to it as much and am ready to stop after a few beers. I tend to value more these days waking up feeling fresh.
Some decent paces there, Andrew.
Easy 7m for me yesterday. 4m recovery and a turbo interval session today.
I started distance running about 3 years ago, when I was dragged to a parkrun, and absolutely loved it (I think I finished in around 25:30). I did the parkruns as often as I could (my work involves working Saturdays and often very late Fridays.
I started running more seriously in February, having given up smoking at New Year. At that point, I'd been swimming 2/3 times a week, and playing squash every couple of weeks, with the odd run thrown in the mix for the past couple of years. As stuff kicked off with Covid, then I started to run more times a week, and I was hooked. Over the past 10 months I've got my 5k PB down to 19:45 (set in September), and run a half marathon in just over 1:40 (I suspect I could have run it faster, I set out cautiously as it was about a 20 minute PB and I had no real idea of what I was capable of).
I'm now focused on 10k - I've only ever done it once as a TT (47:50) and I know I'll be able to knock a lot of time off: I've been setting "PBs" on the last few tempo runs I've done, even with recovery jogs between intervals. I've got an "A" goal of 40:00, a "B" goal of 41:30 (which is what Macmillan estimates given my 5k PB - but I'm fitter now, and I really messed up my taper for that with some fairly heavy nights in the lead up!), and I'm in the fortunate position of knowing that my "C" goal of a PB will happen no matter what.
I'm in week 5 of one of the Strava/MacMillan plans - and I've got mixed feelings. I haven't even been trying to match their pace recommendations as they're just silly, but I also feel like there's not enough easy mileage in the week. As an example, last week was a recovery week - and it had a 3 mile tempo effort, 12x400m and a 80-90min long run. I felt something tighten up in my groin/hip after rep 8 in the 12x400, and then stopped at 10, and took a few days off entirely after that.
I'm wondering whether to switch onto a different plan right now - today I did 2x3k @ threshold (4:15min/k pace), 3x1k @ goal pace. Hit all the paces but felt some cramp coming on in my hamstrings (on that same side). After some stretching I've still got full range of motion in that hip with no real discomfort, but it was a bit of an alarm bell. All in all, it came to 18.5k: isn't that crazy high for a mid-week session considering most weeks following the programme I'm hitting between 50-60km?
Sorry for the very wordy post!
Mind you, we buried my brother in law yesterday at the age of just 32, so the last couple of weeks have hammered home to me that life can change in an instant so I may well start to look after myself better re food and alcohol!
Did a threshold session this morning (as I had a day off work today as well as yesterday so thought I’d get out in the daylight for once!) - 3.5 miles at tempo. 7.03 m/m average pace. I looked back at my training pre 10k PB in April 2019 and this matches exactly the same session I did about 4 weeks before that race so I think I’m in ok shape currently.
Mussessein- welcome. Sounds like you come to running with quite a bit of natural fitness to get down to sub 20 for 5k in just a few months. I’ll let the other two comment on the training queries, as they are more experienced than me! Do keep contributing, as it’s good to get as many voices as possible on here!
So we are (or were until recently the same weight) but your 4 inches taller.
Hi Mussessein, in the first place, at your stage whatever training you do, if it's done consistently you're going to improve. The mcmillan plan wasn't written with you in mind and your body is sending you a few yellow cards.
You are also in a risky position as your cv will improve far quicker than the resilience of your tendons etc and so it means you can do everything faster and harder, but underneath, your body maybe struggling to keep up.
If your training for a 10k predominantly then you don't need 60k a week or 18k midweek. Easy running is important to build the aerobic base but also to safely develop your body safely and progressively. As I say, you're going to improve right now either way......unless you can't run because you're injured. Distance running is a long game and requires patience to fulfil potential.
Perhaps post next weeks schedule and paces?
Yesterday I went out for my usual Friday steady effort tempo type run. Vonditions were good and I felt fresh warming up. I always do these aiming for around 160bpm, so mara hr. 10k came in 39.20 with a 19.50/19.30 split and I was almost disappointed it was only 10k as i was cruising and really enjoying myself.
Looking to get out later (hopefully after it stops raining) for an easy 4 miles. Long run tomorrow is scheduled for 8.5 miles.
But today my heart rate was all over the place, with some big spikes. Lots of things were stacked against me in that regard (hills, mud, a rubbish night's sleep and being forced to scramble and leap through lesser trodden paths to avoid the unexpected volume of people out). Decided to switch it up and go to a nearby park where I did 4/5k on more predictable terrain, doing about 5:20-5:30min ks @ around 150 which does feel genuinely easy for me. All in all,10k, 150m elevation gain in 60 mins, AvHR 154.
Thanks for the response DT19
The next week of the plan looks like:
Tomorrow:
90-105mins long run, finishing last 10 mins faster (I'm definitely not doing this - I will probably do a similar run to today but with less elevation, but maybe some strides and drills)
Monday - rest
Tuesday - 10x30 seconds @ 3:30min/k, 60s recovery jog
Wednesday - 40mins easy
Thursday - 4-5x1 mile 6:00-6:05min/mile, 3 mins jog recovery
Friday - rest
Saturday 50-60mins easy
Sunday - 90 mins, last 15 accelerating up to a final k @ 10k pace
My concern is that sessions like Thursday are just way too hard - even splitting it into 6-8x 1k at the same pace seems much more manageable.
After this block, the plan is to take 2 weeks off running (and subbing cycling/swimming provided lockdown rules allow!), before starting an 8-12 week aerobic base building cycle. But if I'm going to do myself harm following this plan, then I may just abandon it altogether, and have a go at a 10k PB once I've rested and got a good base of easy mileage under my belt.
The key points that I would emphasise are:
- progressive consistent consistency (a consistent programme that gradually gets more difficult with step backs included...and when necessary. Don't plough through a schedule if you are on the brink of injury or illness.)
- protecting yourself from injury. As I have aged I have found this increasingly important and now advocate Pilates based stretching: movements are largely slow and controlled, and progress is slow...but needs to be.
- I always advocate 3 to 4 months of steady base building, then 3 or 4 weeks of fartlek before embarking on a programme that includes speedwork.
As DT says, a good idea to post the next week's schedule.
AD: really sorry to hear about your brother-in-law. Brought it home to me how young he was when I realised that he was younger than my eldest son.
Ticking along here and gradually getting back to it. No rush. Gradually becoming easier. I think the biopsy procedure took more out of me than I first thought. Need to get back to the stretching too!
Over the years I have been involved with some decent standard 5 and 10k runners and the bulkiest session has been 4 x a mile with 50% recovery time, and that is having built up to that over several months. Generally I work in kms with the max for 10k being 5 x 1k, or I write plans in minutes given that 4 minutes, say, is around 1k.
I wouldn't be advocating taking two weeks off running though although can see the benefit of cross training!
I attached a sample 15/16 step plan (steps, not weeks as sometimes life/illness/niggles get in the way and steps might be repeated, or go down a few steps, or occasionally a step is missed out); this is just a sample from plans that I have written for others and there is room for adapting to individual circumstances (including the weather!) and I haven't specified paces. The key thing is as mentioned above: progressive consistency; times will, over a period of time, become quicker, or you will be more comfortable at a given pace.
Would be interested to hear anyone else's thoughts on my attachment!
What do you think of this for next week?
Mon - rest, S&C
Tues - 8km easy + drills and strides
Wed - 5-6x 1k reps (+warm up/recovery jogs/cool down <b>≈</b><span> 11km),
Thurs - 7km easy, S&C
Fri - rest
Sat - 9km easy
Sun - 13-14km
Total: 49km
The next week would be week 7 of 8, so add a couple of km to the long run, and increase the length of a couple of the other sessions. Then mainly easy running in week 8 with a little bit of fartlek?
Today I slept badly again, went out around 6:30 and had a much better run than yesterday. 45 mins easy, 5 miles, heart rate averaged at 147. Disgusting conditions</span>
As an example of my current schedule, this week was:
Monday - rest
Tuesday - intervals - 3(800m off 400m rest) 2(400m off 200m rest) - including warm up and down = 4.5 miles total
Wednesday - 4 miles easy
Thursday - rest
Friday - 3.5 miles at threshold- including warm up and down = 5 miles total
Saturday- 4 miles easy
Sunday- 8.5 miles long run
Total = 26 miles
Alehouse - can’t seem to open that schedule for some reason?
I think I may be committed to doing a HM next year (will explain if and when I sign up) which is further than I’ve ever raced or trained for, so might be looking for some pointers along the way!
Interesting news about a half! In some ways it is easier than a 5k and the training for a 5k: less intense! You will, though, need to devote more time to running with a MLR and a LSR each week. I don't think that you need to go to more than 18k in training though, with the MLR being around two thirds to three quarters of the LSR. Some people prefer to have run further than 21k in training but I have never found this necessary.
Muss: next week's schedule looks reasonable although I would only go for 4 x 1k with 2 mins recovery.
32k for the week here, which is progress! Not a good month but on the other hand not unexpected and the previous 21 weeks went well with 18 of them over 50k. Gradually getting back to it and being careful not to rush things.