The Middle Ground

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  • AD: make sure that you have a couple of pairs of shoes to show the physio!


    About 55 minutes off road today. Not so many flood diversions... although may revise that tomorrow as we have wet weather warnings again.
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • 6km very nice and easy today. Calves a little stiff from the climbing yesterday, but nothing too bad. Weights later, plus plenty of stretching!
  • Really useful physio session today. 

    He has given me a series of targeted exercises to strengthen and support the patella tendon in my right leg.

    Squats, lunges (right leg only), bridges (right leg only) and a wall sit. To be performed 3 times a week (on running rest days). And he gave me the ok to keep running as I have been over the past 3 weeks ie. lower mileage and easy pace only, on the basis that it hasn’t been aggravating the pain.

    Will do the first workout this evening.
  • Sounds positive, AD!

    Easy day today: just over half an hour in the drizzle. Has poured for most of the rest of the day. 
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • mussesseinmussessein ✭✭✭
    edited January 2021
    Good news! I think you'll see improvement very quickly if you are consistent with the exercises. But obviously it's good to remain cautious with your return to running.

    Good weights session yesterday evening:
    4x10 squats
    2x8 Bulgarian squats
    1x8 single leg deadlifts
    4x10 overhead press
    4x10 dumbbell row

    All at 20kg. The Bulgarian squats and deadlifts were tough at that weight for me - I'll probably drop the weight and add an extra set next time. First time I've really managed to cook the legs since I've got the weights - satisfying level of DOMS in the hamstrings and glutes today. Rest today, but might get a decent length walk in.
  • Long time since I did weights, Muss! Must dig them out! Or perhaps not. Gentle Pilates work is enough at present. 

    Just over 59 minutes run this morning. Would have been over an hour of course but didn't have the watch switched to time. The last five days my runs have been 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 km, although not in that order and there has always been something after the decimal point too, so a total of 37 km so far this week. Hopefully just about make 50k again, although snow is forecast. 
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    That sounds very positive, AD and good to have some specific exercises to assist.

    Muss, my strength stuff is reasonably similar sort of exercises but I don't really push the weights at all. Your's seems more a 'proper' strength workout than mine, which is more geared to do just what I need for running purposes.

    Someone posted on the sub 3 fb page the otherday a very basic and entry level poll around strength work and runners. The question was simple, who does any strength work and the options were broken down as yes/no but into those aspiring to sub 3, those between 2.45 and 3, those 2.30-2.45 and those sub 2.30. Whilst you could pick the poll apart at various levels the clear finding was that the slower the category the more likelihood that runners did strength work with a huge proportion of the aspiring sub 3 runners doing it compared to the sub 2.45 and beyond. Obviously there was a degree of analysis around it as we all know elites do it and the thought was that at sub elite level you still have to live a normal life but run 80-100 mpw so something has to give. It was also felt that those aspiring probably don't do enough miles and perhaps should swap out that work for more miles. Anyway, I digress.

    Alehouse, yes I am struggling now to share the joy and excitement my children have for this weekend weather forecast what with,   last weeks long run lost!

    Decent week with 10m easy Monday, 7m progessive Tuesday from recovery to mp, another 10m easy Wednesday and then a fartlek type session yesterday of 7 x 4min off 2 mins jogging. No really target just run at a decent effort as this week is about building miles. Just over 10k for the 40 minutes at 6.24mm so another casual sub 40!

    If Sunday happens as planned then that'll be 59m for the week. and 223 for the month which will be my third highest mileage month ever.


  • Dig them out! You don't need to go very heavy to get benefits. And they help with things like motor skills/coordination, bone density and other things besides just strength. 
  • DT - interesting. I think I'll give the weights a few more months to assess their effect. I haven't really done any weights since I played football at school - my memory was that I put on muscle fairly quickly, but would also lose it very quickly. I'm 65kg and 177cm, so I could definitely afford to carry a bit more weight.

    If it becomes a limiting factor on running, then perhaps I'll change tack, but I'll worry about finishing a marathon before changing things around to help me go sub 3!

    I was pretty consistent with my running from July to October when viewed at a monthly level, but at a weekly level, it was all over the place (60km, to 40km, then back to 55km etc.). The last 5 weeks have actually been the most consistent training I've done, and I reckon I won't have to do crazy mileage to see good results if it's consistent. 
  • So the first run through of the physio's exercises last night revealed:
    1 - Squats and bridges are not a massive problem for me
    2 - Lunges started to cause pain in the top of the hamstring on the leg doing forwards, so I stopped partway through the third set of reps. Something to work on.
    3 - wall sits are bloody hard work. Managed only 10-15 seconds maximum on each rep (when aiming for 30 seconds on each!). I must have the weakest quads in the world!

    However, my legs feel pretty good today.

    3 miler planned for later on today.
  • Edit - 3 miles completed. Strongest I’ve felt in 2 months and the stats back it up (8.38m/m pace but only 149 HR). 

    Think I’ve earned my cider tonight! 
  • mussesseinmussessein ✭✭✭
    edited January 2021
    Good news AD. I think everyone finds wall sits tough, you're not alone in that. You'll be up to minute in no time, but it won't necessarily get any more pleasant! Good that you haven't lost any/much fitness - for me easy pace is still feeling very slow and awkward. 

    7km today, in miserable weather - really cold, windy with that sideways rain that somehow always manages to hit you headon whichever way you're facing! I'd aimed for 6km today, and also ended up doing a km extra on Tuesday. I don't really want to take that off my long run tomorrow, but maybe I'll plan a route that includes some loops at the end so I can abort if it starts feeling too much. I'm keen to get up to around the 10 mile mark as soon as safely possible. I guess I'll just see how I feel tomorrow and take it very easy.

    Managed to fit in strides and drills today - the hip feeling is feeling so much better in the mobility stuff, so fingers crossed it's all healed. Edged above 30km/h on the strides, which has rekindled my ambition to set off a speed camera near my house. It's placed on a downhill that's steep enough to get advantage, without becoming treacherous, so it might just be possible!

    I hope the weather is on everyone's side this weekend!
  • Beautiful but chilly day today. 14.25km with 234m elevation according to Strava, and 209m on the Garmin. I'd found a good looking 13km loop on Strava which I followed pretty much down to a t, and ended up doing 1.25 more km! 

    That brings me to 44km for the week, and 167km for the month, which is not bad at all. Although it's more than I'd planned on for the week, I'm feeling good, and I'll probably aim for something similar next week, rather than pushing on. 

    A couple of the parks were heaving - I elected for walking through the muddy grass rather than getting frustrated trying to find a route through the bodies. I'm getting really sick of all of this mud, I hope the ground dries out soon...
  • Yes, that is a better January than I thought that you would manage, Muss. And I would try to consolidate at around the same weekly kms for the next couple of weeks. Decent long run, but I wouldn't try to increase it significantly for a while. Just build that consistency. 

    Another gentle 45 minutes largely off road this morning, Cold and pretty quiet. 213 km (132 miles) for the month. 
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • Good mileage you two.

    4 miles for me today, longest run in some weeks. Cold out there today.

    47 miles for the month for me - better than I might have predicted at the start of the month, so I’m reasonably satisfied.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Decent going, chaps.

    Muss, so you are about 2 inches taller than me and 2kg lighter so yes I guess you could get away with a bit of bulk. 

    I rounded the month off with a nice little session. 17.5m with 5m easy then 2 x 5m at mp off 1m then 1.5cd. The session part came out 6.42mm so take out the 8mm and it was 6.35mm ish which I feel is about right. 
    That's 59m for week and 223m month which is my third highest month ever. 
  • Incredible mileage DT! You’ve been so consistent over the past 6(?) months.

    2.5 miles for me tonight to kick off the month.
  • Andrew - good news! Have you noticed the exercises making a difference?

    Alehouse - thanks for all the advice! I will maybe add up to a km to my long run and MLR, but I'll keep the others the same or shorter. And a good month whilst you're still building - could 2021 miles this year be on the cards?

    DT - meaty long run workout! And impressive mileage.

    Have/do you guys run fasted, or have any opinions on it? Up till now, I've mainly done all my morning running fasted, at all paces up to and including threshold.

    This morning, I experimented with having a small bowl of overnight oats about an hour before setting out. I don't know whether it was the oats, or whether I'm just starting to feel the effects of more consistent training (or both!), but my run was significantly better than I've been having recently. Heart rate was very low despite quite a bit of climbing, and a reasonable pace on the flat.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    Muss, having had a stress fracture last year, I was asked by various professionals in the process whether I ran fasted regularly, which I rarely do.

    Whilst there are various thoughts on training gains of fasted training such as fat adaption, there's a lot of good evidence that it is not very good for the body at all and leads to higher injury incident generally and is often a  factor in stress fractures.

    Out over lunch for a  mp/hmp fartlek type arrangement over 10k.

  • If I run in the morning I usually have just half a cup of tea, or if I have about an hour before I run then probably a crumpet with my tea. Don't really run far enough these days for it to be an issue, although it perhaps would be if I were to run for more than perhaps an hour and a half. 

    Muss: no intention of aiming for 2021 miles. 2021 kilometres is enough of a challenge! And see below...

    I had treatment for prostate cancer in 2013; unfortunately that has returned so I will be having further brachytherapy (radiation seeds are implanted in the prostate) on Thursday at The Christie in Manchester. Can't say that I am looking forward to it! Running will be minimal at best for a while. 
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • Alehouse - sorry to hear that. All the very best for the treatment and I hope a speedy recovery.

    DT - my reason for doing it is so I don't have to wait for my food to digest and can therefore get up as late as possible! But having a little bit of cereal/toast or even just a banana is not going to take much digesting, and for the sake of avoiding injury seems a bit of a no brainer.
  • Hi Alehouse - really sorry to hear your news. Wishing you well with the treatment. 
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    Alehouse, really sorry to hear your news. Best of luck with the treatment. Keep us informed how you are going with it all.

    Muss, yes, I think just having a banana as soon as you are up will make a difference.

    10K over lunch with alternating k's between hmp and mp. Came in 39.38 at 6.22mm. It's still slightly amazing to me that I can do that at a largely moderate effort when a few years ago it was the totality of my ambition to run it in a race.

  • Thanks for the thoughts, guys! Will keep you posted, probably Friday. 

    Progressive consistent consistency works, DT! Living proof!
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • Muss - I realised you asked me a question earlier this morning, which I didn't respond to! In answer, I haven't noticed any change to the tenderness at the top of the shin, but I have noticed that my legs are starting to feel just a tiny bit stronger on my runs.

    I think this is to be expected - the physio is seeing me again in 3 weeks by which time he said he hopes that I will have noticed an improvement in my leg strength (and an ability to do more reps/sets than I can manage at the start) but would not expect to see a reduction in pain for some time further. He said if the pain is still there in 6-8 weeks then he'll get me in for a face to face session and then decide if any kind of further treatment or investigations are necessary.

    Running rest day today, so S&C routine to fit in this evening.
  • DT - great running!

    Andrew - all sounds good.

    A hilly 10km today, but taken very easy at an average HR of 146. 175m of elevation, and some pretty steep gradients, the worst of which is 12.5%. I've found mixing up my routes more is very freeing - today's was especially good with great views over London. Something flatter for tomorrow!
  • S&C went better last night, even managed longer on the wall sits!

    3 miles this afternoon- all good.
  • Alehouse - I hope all went well yesterday? Does the procedure effect everyday mobility? Rest well and take care!

    Andrew - you inspired me to try out wall sits again. I've done chair pose in yoga a fair amount, a similar exercise, but it's been a while since I've done wall sits. It was horrible, I managed 3x1 min through gritted teeth, but I was shaking a lot by the end of the last one! Do you do the variation where you squeeze on a block/ball between your legs?

    6km very easy yesterday, plus a bit of strength stuff. Rest today, and managed 9 hours sleep which was unexpected and welcome!
  • Muss- 3x1min is good! I’m on 4x30secs at the moment! Not done that variation yet, maybe the physio will add that in after our next review?

    Weather looks abysmal for running on Sunday and Monday. May need to rejig things a bit here.
  • 3 miles just completed. First time HR below 150 (it was 148 actually) for yonks! Hopefully signs fitness is coming back.
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