The Middle Ground

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  • Never say never, DT! Sub 36 is about 5:47 pace. Your parkrun was 5:44 ish. And there are faster courses. Don't rule it out!
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • Alehouse - all being well, I'll run LFotM next week. I've been having the odd Achilles grumbling, which always seems to disappear as quickly as it comes on. So if I feel any of that next week, I won't run. After that, it's a 10km in Battersea on 11th December.

    3x2km threshold yesterday, the reps were 8:20, 8:12, 8:01. Starting to wonder if 39:xx might be on for my 10k.


  • Alehouse - bit of a mixed situation to report here. After a visit to the physio again about 2 weeks ago, it was decided that we had tried pretty much everything but there was still pain and discomfort in the knee and therefore the option left was effectively to take a period of time where I stopped doing any exercises, tried to avoid (as best as possible) the things which aggravate the knee such as driving or sitting with a bent knee, tape it all day every day, ice it, use anti-inflammatory gels etc and to see how that went.

    2 weeks later and the knee is SO much better (and has been since about day 4 of this regime), which suggests that whatever the problem is can be resolved with rest and time, but obviously it begs the question of how long do I need it to be 'good' before I take a risk and start doing a little exercise, and how will the knee respond to that? Time will tell.

    So on the one hand, no running for over 2 weeks, but on the plus side there is definitely a LOT less pain.

    Unfortunately Covid also made an unwelcome entrance to our house last night - my wife has tested positive on a LFT.
  • Hope that the Covid is not too bad, AD! Not sure what to say re the knee! Will you be reintroducing exercises for a few weeks at some point prior to running?

    Muss, I was hoping to be at LFoM but have not been well so it would be rather a wasted and expensive journey. Provisionally thinking December's edition, even though it is New Year's Eve. 

    Not a lot to report running-wise. Have run every day whilst ill (GP friend happy with this as long as it is short and gentle). Bit of a breakthrough today in that I actually felt well enough to push a couple of hills. Just a couple mind!
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Late in the week 10k entry as felt good post Derby and weather looked good. Leicestershire 10k in 36.14, so 57s pb with splits of 18.08 and 18.06. 
  • alehousealehouse ✭✭✭
    edited November 2021
    Well done, DT! And probably confirms that you can go sub 36! 
    It was very chilly here this morning and racing wouldn't have appealed!
    Edit: category prize?

    Have managed just over half an hour the last couple of days so definitely getting over the bug!
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • Well done DT! 

    Alehouse- I hadn’t picked up that you’d had a bug. Glad you’re getting over it.

    Covid has now spread to all 4 of us in our house 🤢 it had to happen eventually I guess 
  • Sorry to hear that you are all Covid stricken, AD. Hope things are not too bad. I've been ill since about October 27th with a chest infection and heavy cold. Struggled to get rid of it. 

    Thinking about it, DT, you shouldn't be setting PBs at this time of year...so surely more to come next spring or summer.


    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Andrew, hope you aren't too unwell with it.

    Alehouse,  Lewis and I were discussing that earlier. Basically at the far end of the 'off-season' , a few lb over race weight, dining out on my London fitness. He thinks a better course and a sharper point in training and it'd be closer to 35.30. 

    5m race 3 weeks today. That basically gets rid of the low hanging pb fruit so there in they might not come so easily. 
  • Good to see you revising the target, DT! A week ago you were saying sub 36 was impossible. Now you are going for closer to 35:30! Good! 

    Probably another 30 minutes easy...but it needs to warm up considerably before I run!
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • JGavJGav ✭✭✭
    I came back to give a race report for Manchester but didn't feel like writing it at the time and then forgot.

    Manchester broadly went like this

    Ran to plan to half way with a friend doing her first. Went through half in 1.42.38
    I got to 20 miles at a slower pace than I'd run Dorney but felt that it was already getting hard and I was slowing. I sent my friend off not long after, she came in just over 3.30

    At mile 21 my legs imploded with aplomb. Horrific cramp with quads locking up, I went to stretch it and then hammies went, so I ended up on the floor on my knees with my head as a tripod until it passed. I then did a weird run, shuffle walk to get to the finish trying to keep my muscles from going again. 

    Came in at 3.44.47. So a PB by over 10 mins but not the result my training said was possible (even with the disruption for cardiac investigations 4 weeks out)

    Anyhoo - I took a well earned break, this then extended into a longer break where I've just done whatever I feel like leading up to a planned half. My idea had been to recover and then go do some speed work to get ready. In reality my head said no, work got much harder and I picked up a calf niggle. I've done 38km in November, of which 21.1k was the race yesterday.

    St Neots Half
    Sod it, I have very little to lose, so went with the 90 pacer like I did in 2018 when I blew with 5k to go. Stuck with the pace until mile 6 and decided that it wasn't on and better to back off and finish the race strong. Splits dropped to 4.25-4.30, the final 5k is net downhill but there was a strong headwind for much of it so less benefit than it should have been. I passed the point at which I started walking last time and just told myself to keep pushing on with the promise of the final 800m down to the finish line.

    Home in 1.32.01 for a 39 second PB. 

    Overall, not a bad year with PBs at 5k, HM, Mara. Not raced a 10k but suspect that would fall too. Not sure what I'm going to do next year but it will probably involve some more running and bring it on!


  • Congrats on the PBs guys.

    DT - do you have any plans to target 10km/HM as an A race? I know you were thinking of doing two maras next year, so I guess that could be tricky to fit in time wise. 

    JGav - as you said to me in September, 26 miles is no joke! And then a very decent half performance off little training. Hard luck on missing out on 91 mins, but there's always next time.

    This morning was my first long sleeved run for the autumn. Strava says it was 3°C, feels like 1°C. Very easy to kick off a bit of a recovery week.

    Still undecided on whether to run this 5k on Friday.
  • LFoM yesterday - didn't know whether to go or not, as I felt very dizzy and lightheaded on Thursday evening, and not completely better yesterday morning.

    First km I found it hard to find the right effort level, probably not warmed up enough, 4:06. Next 2km or so I had more or less a constant stream of people to move past. Around the 3km marker, I found myself between groups and into a slight headwind, not ideal. I latched on to the next group before 4km, waited 100m or so and then went past. At this point, I had two people to chase down, a woman from Herne Hill Harriers and a guy a bit further ahead. I pulled up alongside Herne Hill, I could tell she was really giving it everything which spurred me on a bit. A slight downhill, and brought the distance down to the guy in front. A sprint for the line, I don't catch him but I'm really not far off. The marshalls are really yelling at us to stay in order, but I couldn't find the brakes. Things were a bit chaotic behind me, too, I heard lots of feet.

    19:01 for a 20 sec PB, and all feeling pretty comfortable up to about 4km, so not a bad tune up for my 10km.
  • I'm glad you ran, Muss! And I think there is a fair amount more to take off that in better conditions and more even pacing. A conservative start is better than going off too hard, especially with a couple of rises in that first km. All good! 

    And well done J-Gav also. Sub 90 next target?

    Have managed easy half hours the lest couple of days, but even at an easy pace the HR is too high still, especially on the slightest rise. Suggests that I have not completely got over the bug that I had. Booster jab on Monday which I am not looking forward to given the complications after jab one!
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • Did you have AZ for first and second doses? Most people I've spoken to seem to be getting Pfizer for the booster - perhaps you'll have less reaction if you have a different jab.

    High HR could be down to the cold, too. 

    Yes, I've pulled up pretty well from yesterday, so I'll try to be a bit braver next time and try to get into the 18:45 kind of region. Perhaps see you at December LFoM?

    Trying to work out what to do from now to Battersea 10k on the 11th. I'll probably aim for 16-17km tomorrow, and possibly a cruisy session mid week before cutting back.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Jgav, sounds like an unpleasant mara experience. You did well to hold on for a pb. Equally well done on the half pb. 

    Muss, good work also on your 5k pb. I'm sure you'd get under 19 on another day. As for the interim, I'd train as normal this week and through to a race specific session next Tuesday. After that keep it easy with some strides thrown in. 

    I've entered the Wokingham half end of February. It's a high quality and fast race and sits perfectly for Manchester mara 4 weeks later. 

    Alehouse, I've heard some worrying reports of booster jabs and the illness they seem to cause. Hope it goes well for you. 

    Trying to now build back into training following a race phase. Did 2 x 3m at tempo of 1m at mp on Thursday. 7m came out at 6.12 mm for moderate effort, which I was pleased with. Very easy 13m yesterday. 
  • DT - I've been running a half for my long run for the last few weeks, I guess this is too long a week out from the race? 

    And the session, something like 5x1km @ race effort with decent recoveries? Or is that too much, too close? 
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    edited November 2021
    Muss, looking at my recent 10m race, I did 13m the Sunday before, if you run it easy enough it shouldn't really do any damage. I did 10 x 3 mins the Tuesday before off 1 min at around threshold to half pace so 5 x 1k  off say 90s shouldn't be a problem, though probably a bit slower than 10k effort. 
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Decent week, two good sessions and a 14m today at 7.36mm. 

    Decent session Friday, 11k alternating between hmp and mp. Came in 6.03mm average. Fastest training run of that nature I've done all within correct effort range. Bodes well in week 1 of the new cycle. Feel like that recent run of races has given me a bit of a fitness boost. 

    5m race next Sunday. Final piece in the pb alignment jigsaw. 
  • Ticking along well here. Last week was marginally lower mileage than normal, but perhaps with a bit more quality. I had a good session, and a hungover 10 miler that I definitely ran a little too fast (1:18ish) given I have a race on Saturday! It was in that kind of steady range though, so was comfortable enough even with a few 4:30ish Kms to close.

    Yesterday I ran very easy, and today I wanted to try out a Kenyan diagonals session I've read about. It's done on a grass football pitch, and you run the diagonals fast, and then the short edge super slow - apparently elite Kenyans often progress through the session to running the 120m diagonal in about 16-18s, and jog the 70m short edge in 45 (which I calculate to be over 10min/km pace!). The rationale behind it is very similar to strides, but you're doing more volume of  slightly slower efforts. It's not more taxing on the body than a recovery run, but doing a decent amount of faster running. I did about 20x120m diagonals, starting out at a "steady" pace and working up to 3 or 5km pace. It was actually quite a lot of fun and I reckon it's something I'll look to include more. 
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Good luck Saturday, Muss. Weather looks pretty good for it, at least here it does and particularly compared to recent weather.  

    Ticked over this week with one eye on Sunday. Beginning to build milage etc as Manchester is now in sight at 15 weeks Sunday. 

    Had my county v40 10k silver medal finally arrive this week following July champs race plus an e mail off runthrough offering me free entry in say race as an age group winner prize from recent Leicestershire 10k. Also had London gfa confirmed. Still waiting on Berlin though. 
  • Hope you are getting suitably nervous for your race, Muss! Hope to hear of a decent outing!

    Manchester is surprisingly close, DT! When's the 5 miler?

    I was very apprehensive before my booster: no reaction at all. Pfizer, following two x AZ. 

    Running every day but at a fairly low level. Which is fine. Gradually throwing in a few relatively quicker stretches or pushing the slightest incline. And trying to remember to stretch! 
    Not sure yet about LFoM on NYE.
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Alehouse, I think it's easy to see everything next year as a long way off when the focus is on Christmas. 

    5m race is Sunday morning. 

    I've hot my booster a week Monday and I don't know many it hasn't left feeling rough so slightly apprehensive. 

    Good work on the progress. I'm pleased to be back working from home as of today as it makes a huge difference in the steps I can take in recovery, particularly after sessions, compared to being in the office. 
  • mussesseinmussessein ✭✭✭
    edited December 2021
    Thanks guys, conditions were pretty perfect although very cold.

    Four lap course, another one of those distanced start jobs in waves. Had to fight through the Santas, and people dressed for an arctic expedition but was running pretty well after 100m or so. I had company for the first two laps, but ended up on my own after that, between groups. I had someone wearing a Hackney Half t shirt about 50m in front though. He came back to me around 8km, and then found myself chasing two guys who I'd thought would be well ahead. I went past those after 9km, but Hackney made a move with 200m to go and I had nothing left. Turned out he'd started a minute after me anyway, so therefore was a minute faster than me!

    Anyway, 38:56 chip time! I would have been delighted with 39:xx!

    Watch splits: 4:02, 3:57, 3:51, 3:56, 3:53, 3:53, 3:51, 3:53, 3:55, 3:45 (first 5k 19:41, second 5km 19:18)

    I tried counting from 1-10 in this race - it seemed to help a lot, and was basically all I was thinking from 5km.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Excellent, Muss. Very well executed as well. Always an extra boost to essentially beat the A goal. 

    Whats up next? 
  • That's great, Muss! And plenty more to come! December isn't really the best of time to set PBs! I always count 1, 2, 3, 4, 1, 2, 3,4, etc when the going gets tough, or off the top of a hill to help get back in rhythm.

    Enjoy tomorrow, DT!
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • DT, all the best for today. I guess you know it'll be a pretty big PB so that takes the pressure off somewhat?

    No definite plans till Eastbourne half in March and Hackney Half in May. I'll probably try and do at least one Serpentine Last Friday of the month 5k before March before then, and possibly race a 5 or 10 mile course. I was already thinking I'd be targeting 89:xx over HM next year, but my result yesterday gives me more confidence in setting that as a goal.


  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Muss, I think even now, without weeks of training to come, sub 90 shouldn't be a problem. I'd expect you to be pushing 1.26/1.27. 

    Hard graft this morning. Found myself in a race for 3rd place, having run mile 1 in 5th. Took the lad in 3rd about half way and he stayed 10m or so behind me until about 4m but looking on strava, I was able to kick quite a lot in last mile which has quite a bit of downhill and posted a 5.35 mile to his 5.55 which was about his average overall pace. Finished in 29.02 so disappointed not to sub 29 but I gave it everything. Wasn't an easy course and had to really dig in through the middle for what was an undulating 2m with a fairly steady drag. 

    I was physically sick for about 3 minutes about 15 mins after finishing so know I gave it my lot. 

    Got a small trophy and £15 Amazon voucher for my trouble. 
  • Sounds character building, DT! Decent chunk off the pb with more to come in the right race! Well done!
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • Good battling DT. How far ahead were the first two? Don't spend it all at once!


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