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The Middle Ground

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    Thanks for that DT, enjoyable to read as always. Is this week also a big training week, or do you start to wind things up from here?


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    DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    There's volume in the week (64m) but other than an 8m tempo on Friday it's all easy. 

    I have two peak weeks then after this one ending with a 10m tempo about 10 days before raceday. 
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    I recall you do short tapers, but 10 days seems very short!

    Having to move things around this week and moving my long run back a day to Monday. 7 day total will still be 69km so still a decent week.

    Did a session yesterday, 1-2-1-2-1km. 1kms between 5k/10k with 90s jog, 2kms between HM and threshold effort with 3 mins jog. 3:53, 8:10, 3:50, 8:08, 3:52. That last km involved an abrupt hairpin turn as I realised I'd gone the wrong way, so overall a nice progression of effort throughout probably, although it felt a very hard session.

    Not as fast as it was back in Feb, but on a tougher surface.
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    alehousealehouse ✭✭✭
    Apologies, DT: thought that I had commented on your report! Am looking forward to the proper  report in a few weeks! 

    Going along nicely, Muss!

    Another 40k week, the tenth out of the last 12 weeks. Legs were sore today after wearing new shoes to my daughter's wedding yesterday. Lots of walking involved to get to the venue, then from the venue to the food venue and then back home. This morning's 45 minutes wasn't as easy as it should have been. Wedding went well, including my speech about which I had been a little concerned!
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
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    DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Alehouse, congrats on the daughters wedding. I've always felt it's a big and emotional day for the father of female. 

    Muss, nice session. Always promising to see pace progression. 

    I think the thought process on tapers has changed a little, particularly for people who've run many marathon cycles as you are more adapted to the work. I've only had 8 weeks of full training as well. 10 days is about the time the benefits of a session take to appear in fitness. 

    64m for week with 8m tempo Friday averaging 6.16mm with some progression second half then 23m easy today just to get me out gor longer than race day, so was out for 2 58. 
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    alehousealehouse ✭✭✭
    Hope all is well, DT!

    Muss, I can't remember what you have got planned! You seem to be training well so perhaps time for a quick parkrun?

    I had planned to parkrun this morning but woke up with a raised HR and a sore throat so changed plan. Legs were like lead running for an easy 35 minutes this pm. Suspect they are tired from lots of bending in the garden. Tested negative and hopefully it will stay that way!
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
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    Quite a big mileage reduction for me this week after my long run on Monday, and running very easy. First time in a while that I've actually enjoyed a recovery week and felt the benefits.

    Alehouse, I have Hackney Half in May, and Big Half in September in the diary entered. I have had some potential work come in that may mean I can't run Hackney, so may look for a half the week before instead. I hope to make a showing at LFotM this month, but won't ease off training in the run up. I'll probably concentrate on 5k/10k over the summer, although 10k is my strongest result by a long way so far, so tempting to leave it alone for a while!

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    DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    55m this week with 10 x 1k Wednesday and then a big session Friday of 5 x 3k a bit faster than mp off 1k at 6.50s. 

    Found Friday really hard going, I was out at 9.30 and come the second half it was warm and I was thirsty and hungry. Didn't feel great on any training over Wednesday,  Thursday or Friday. 

    Down in Dorset for weekend so an easy 8m this morning felt much better after a rest day yesterday. Travelling home tonight then 18 tomorrow. 

    2 weeks tomorrow until race day. 
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    DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Feel much better this week, not sure if I was fighting something off wednesday- Friday as running was hard work and I was drenched in sweat just easy running. 

    Easy 18m Monday at 7.42mm and it was bizarrely comfortable. Barely felt like a long run after a 26 and 23m long. 5m recovery yesterday then 3 x 2m today off 0.5m easy jog. 

    Today was the strongest and fittest I've felt in a session since the last one I did pre injury in January. 

    8m easy tomorrow then 10m Friday at low end tempo. Will use that as a full kit tester as have a box fresh pair of alphafly that I need to get my feet used too. 
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    alehousealehouse ✭✭✭
    Thanks for the reply, Muss! Aiming for LFoM in May or June. 

    All sounds good, DT

    Being reasonably consistent here with 40k weeks 11 out of the last 13. For the last 6 weeks have also been trying to include a short sharp speed session in there as well, whilst listening to my body, and the weather! And have worked reasonably hard on the stretching work. No race plans as yet!

    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
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    alehousealehouse ✭✭✭
    parkrun on Saturday on one of the tougher courses, so 25:28 was ok for first in my age group without pushing the pedal down. Another 40k week to bring up 12 out of 14. May cut back a little this week; will play it by feel. 

    Tapering, DT?
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
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    DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Good stuff, Alehouse. Any plans for a more strenuous go at things? 

    Hope you are going well, Muss?

    I did my low tempo Friday, pretty much just sat at 6.25mm for a 154 average bpm and felt as straightforwardas hr suggested. Pleasing given I'd had a sports massage 5 hours earlier and hadn't really taken ant steps towards taper then. 

    Used it as full kit tester Inc my new alphafly. Factoring in paces feel easier in a race environment, which I saw clearly in Manchester, I think I should be setting out next Monday at between 6.20 and 6 25 with the benefit of taper, race day magic and perhaps some small gains in the pipeline from last weeks training. Early forecast looks near perfect, which was one of my fears entering a marathon in May. 

    Spin Saturday and a very bouncy 15m yesterday. Legs already feeling pretty good. 5m recovery today. Sports massage again Thursday and a pretty relaxing weekend planned so ought to really start feeling good by end of week. Going to focus on lots of rest and sleep this week. 
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    alehousealehouse ✭✭✭
    All sounds good, DT! Hope it stays that way and that the wind, in particular, is kinder than it has been here for the last week.
    No proper racing plans yet. At least a month before I think about it!
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
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    DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    The forecast all over looks set to go very still, Cloudy and cool. Perfect for my needs. 

    Very low hr for my lunchtime 5m. 
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    DT - a good sign that you're feeling good even before you've had the full benefits of a taper. 

    Alehouse - all going well. What's the streak now? Any news on the neck?

    6x1km off 2 mins jog (which became a walk after rep 4) was tough last week, reps came in between 3:46 and 3:51. A little slower than that effort level was coming out in Jan/Feb, but I was only doing mixed intensity sessions then, so this is the first pure VO2max type session I've done for a while longer. 

    24km yesterday in the sunshine was pleasant, but the relatively warm weather did make things harder work! 67km for the week. Will look to push that up to 75-80km or so in the coming weeks, though probably won't get there before Hackney Half. 

    Was hoping to get to LFoM this week, but new work plans have scuppered that. Dulwich Parkrun on Saturday it is, then. Will start out at 3:45min/km pace and hang on for as long as possible!
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    3x3km off two mins jog on Tuesday: 12:45, 12:36, 12:14. Perhaps got a little carried away on that last one, but all in that kind of HM effort zone until the last 500m where I really felt I was digging in to get it done and then ran way faster than I needed to (the last km was 3:55). With warm-up and cool down it was 15.5km.

    8.5km recovery yesterday at 136bpm average, my lowest for quite a while. The cooler temps after some warmer spells have really helped that.

    15km over hills today - about 250m of climbing in the mix. Some of my routes have started to get a bit stale, so I decided to improvise this one over some hills, as I've been avoiding them for a while. This run was probably the most fun I've had on a run for a while, and I ended up working out ways to snake around and do the same hills up parallel streets as I was enjoying it so much. It was very easy going on the flat and downhill sections, and mainly managed to keep the effort from getting too out of hand on the ups. Maybe a little too hard two days out from giving parkrun a decent effort, but a decent week so far.
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    DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Muss, what sort or recovery were you having on that session? That's a good sort of session to develop into a more continuous workout. 

    I did 5 x 3k at between mp and hmp a few weeks ago but with 1k recovery at 7mm ish. Those sort of in and out sessions are seemingly becoming quite popular and are a big part of Canova training which a lot seem to quote lately. 

    Good luck in parkrun. 

    I did 8m easy Tuesday then Wednesday 4 x 1m a bit faster than mp off 2 min easy. Reps were 6.08, 6.08, 6.07 and 6.05. Bizarrely instead of having to force the pace to come I struggled to slow myself down so not sub 6mm. 

    5m easy yesterday then 4 today with 4 x 15s strides. Just a little 3m stakeout Sunday now. 

    I can't believe how good the weather forecast currently is. Probably (if it stays that way) the best weather I'll have ever had in a marathon. 
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    Good news about the weather DT - although you've shown with great 10k and HM performances that you can also perform very well in less ideal conditions. 

    Enjoy, you're in great shape! Anything planned between MK and Berlin? I reckon there's more to come off your 5 and 10km even without gaining fitness.

    Recovery for that session was 2 mins jog, HR was just about getting back to the upper end of easy by then.

    I think those Canova sessions probably make more sense the better an athlete you are. For someone like you, your Mara pace is maybe 1min30 quicker per km than your easy pace - that leaves plenty of room for running those floats at an effort that is genuinely steady/easy. For me, my easy runs come in at 5:10-30 per km (I haven't achieved a mara at that pace!) and if I try to run faster than that with fatigue from running my half pace for a decent chunk, then I reckon the relative stress on the body is way higher for a less developed athlete.

    I do enjoy shorter blocks like km on/off, though, and will definitely include more of them in my training. This session was encouraging as the 3km reps felt more comfortable than 1kms were feeling in in/out sessions that I was doing back in Feb for a similar pace.
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    DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Muss, yes you are there. Anyone who can run low 40 mins in a 10k can genuinely claim 8mm as easy and ultimately there's only so slow you can run easy. So the advantage then of being faster is the range of paces as 8mm still feels like a reasonable enough gait and stride.

    Well, I have a few weeks of recovery and letting go a bit as I've deprived myself of quite a lot food and drink wise. There's a few takeaways I'm lining up etc. Then I go to turkey 4 weeks today for 10 nights of all inclusive. I come back on the Wednesday then have a 9m leg in the Welsh castles relay on the Sunday.

    After that  I'll just have a look what's about locally. Wouldn't mind a crack at a decent half sometime. My 5k pb was done 4 days after a holiday, which was after about 5 weeks of downtime post London so a well timed parkrun is probably worth a go. 
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    mussesseinmussessein ✭✭✭
    edited April 2022
    Big field today at Dulwich Parkrun so was hopeful of a decent group to work with. First km in 3:43, feeling surprisingly easy. Second in 3:45, now I've worked my way through all the people immediately around me, and I'm just chasing a couple of people about 75m ahead. I assume they're out of reach, but they must be fading as I reel them in pretty quickly around the end of lap 2 of 3. Km 3 and 4 are both 3:42.4 according to Garmin! Now, I'm aiming for a woman and a man, both going pretty well. I bring them in a bit, but they're having their own sprint battle, so no chance I'm going to get near them with 200m to go.

    I had told myself the only thing I wanted to achieve today was a really strong finish, but I was really in noman's land far off people ahead or behind, so hard to find that extra gear. The last km was 3:35 and I ran 3:21min/km pace for the .06 scraps, so a little step up, but nothing too major. 18:39 all in, that's a decent chunk off the 18:56 I set in Feb. 18th overall, and the woman ahead turned out to be first female finisher, so not the usual standard at Dulwich! There was a guy who ran 17:05 with a buggy, though.
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    DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Muss well done on the pb, it's a good level and progress. It's hard to knock big chunks off in one go in a 5k as 30s requires 10s per mile improvement which is a big difference.  

    Last little shakeout of 3m this morning. Weather forecast still looks perfect. Think, as you said above, the drop from pleasant spring weather to crappy spring weather gives a nice free boost as I've got used to training in 18c and sometimes sunny and also a lot of wind. Tomorrow is 11c, very still and Cloudy. 
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    mussesseinmussessein ✭✭✭
    DT - for my long run today, the forecast just before I set out was 13°c and drizzle. It turned out to feel a fair bit warmer than that, as well as being fairly bright and muggy. I came back feeling quite sticky and the last 5k was quite hard work. Just a reminder that the weather forecast isn't always perfect!
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    alehousealehouse ✭✭✭
    Thinking of you today, DT!

    And well done Muss!
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
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    DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Thanks Alehouse.

    2.50.23 today. Sub 2.45 was never on, felt awful at 84.10 for halfway but somehow kept ticking the miles off and getting faster. By mile 24 I’d done the maths and was on for a high 2.46 low 2.47 then disaster struck and a Marshall not paying attention allowed myself and another to run straight passed him down a hill. We then had to run back up the hill to find our way back and added about 800m or 3 ish minutes which obviously meant my pb had gone. This killed my ambition. Managed to claw back the 3 of the 4 places I lost though and finished 17th. 

    Hugely frustrated. Course was really hard work as well with a ridiculous amount of twisting and turning on the redways and little climbs and some gravel surfaces and other rough surfaces played hell with the alphafly. No opportunity to just settle and cruise at a pace. When I did I was settling at 6.15.

    we live and learn! 
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    alehousealehouse ✭✭✭
    That is a great shame, DT! I don't think I would be very happy at all in your shoes! Onwards and upwards! Recover well and move on. 

    Just worked out last week's kms: just over 47 so the highest this year. And around 185 kms for April. 
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
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    mussesseinmussessein ✭✭✭
    DT - that really is unlucky. How did it effect things for the other guy who went the wrong way with you? You've had a great block, though, even though you didn't get the result you wanted, you have a great platform to build on for the autumn. Enjoy a few lighter weeks.

    I've heard lots of people say they only choose alphas for courses where you have long straights and very even pacing. The guys at the front of maras mainly seem to wear vapors as they handle accelerations/decelerations and corners better, so surges and manoeuvring in packs etc. are easier.

    Decent week alehouse.
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    DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    alehouse, no I was pretty peed off at the finish. If he were paying attention, given the other guy ran passed him about 10s after me and we’d been running in a straight line open area towards him for about 200m it’s poor. The worst part was the distance after him was all down hill so I had to turn around and run up it which knackered me unnecessarily. 

    Solid April, hopefully you can build on that. 

    Muss, the other guy beat me by 7s. He still ran a pb but it cost him a much bigger one and sub 2.50. He’d have beaten me either way as finished stronger than I did. 

    Funny enough last time I raced in MK it was a half and I opted for next % over alphafly as I’d read about the twists. Yesterday I wasn’t if the view from the course description it would be the same. It adds to my gains list for Berlin, running long straight lines on the flat! 

    Quads and hips pretty sore today but that’s it. Soreness consistent with the course profile. 
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    mussesseinmussessein ✭✭✭
    On the one hand it's hard to be too critical of people who are giving up their time to volunteer, perhaps they had a good reason to be distracted.

    But on the other it's hard to contemplate anyone being prepared to stand in one spot for hours if they didn't understand how much it means to people. Particularly at mile 24 - at that stage, I'd find it hard not to be inspired and really spurring on runners if I were marshalling. 
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    mussesseinmussessein ✭✭✭
    edited May 2022
    I'm feeling a definite gain in fitness.

    A solid 14km easy run yesterday. Probably the best pace Vs HR/perceived effort I've had at 140bpm average and 5:08min/km and feeling very relaxed.

    16.5km this afternoon, with my alternating 1k @ 5-10k, 2k @ threshold-HM effort, starting and finishing on 1ks. 90s jog after the 1ks, 3 mins after the 2ks. 3:49, 7:59, 3:41, 7:48, 3:38. The best paces I've hit on that workout by some way, and also the best I've felt doing it. I kept trying to pull that first 2k back as I was sure I'd pay for it later, but as the rep went on I realised it was actually just feeling quite comfortable!

    How's the recovery going, DT?
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    DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    That's good stuff, Muss. I love that run when you suddenly realise you've had a fitness leap. Decent progression in the reps.

    Quads are sore but everything else good. Did 3m recovery. 

    I'm 3rd in the v45 cat from Monday, which is significant because it was an England masters team  qualification race. 
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