The Middle Ground

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  • mussesseinmussessein ✭✭✭
    DT - congrats on the podium and the prospect of qualification is very exciting. When do you hear more?

    I've run 75km the past couple of weeks, having been hanging around 65-70 for quite a while. Psychologically, something about going over 70km was putting me off pushing the mileage, but if anything I reckon I feel slightly better for running a little more. Finished off this week with a solid 24.5km long run in glorious weather. I got into a good rhythm in the last 8km down to about 4:30 ish km pace, and HR was under control despite not having much shelter from the sun at that stage. 

    Just one more tempo run to do mid next week, and then time to start tapering down for Hackney Half!
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Muss, thanks, its only 3rd in 5 year age though, I was 7th v40, though I'd have been 5th but for the misdirection. The results were only submitted to England Athletics on Monday and they state up to 21 days. I've ticked all the boxes so fingers crossed. It'll sound really impressive to work colleagues and non fitness friends! 

    All about safe progression, Muss, to build and develop your engine so adding a few miles on like that will help and take little away in terms of extra fatigue. 

    I went on a stag weekend to Cardiff so no training after Friday. Spin Monday and 5m easy yesterday. 

    I thought I had really bad hay-fever but did a positive covid test this morning. Managed to avoid it for 2 years and as timing goes this isn't dreadful. Just got a moderate cold, not near as bad as the illness I had at start of March. 5m easy over lunch. I'll keep away from the spin studio but I live 400m from country lanes so as long as I feel OK I'll crack on with running. Didn't see a single person this lunchtime. 
  • alehousealehouse ✭✭✭
    Sorry to hear about the Covid, DT. A good time to get it I suppose! I'm not sure about cracking on with the running; if you do run (and I probably would) I would keep it very gentle and just tick over. 

    All continues to sound good, Muss!

    Was in France for a few days, returning on Bank Holiday Monday; haven't really felt great since I returned. Surely can't still have a hangover? Have tested most days but all negative. Have just been ticking over running-wise and only 28k last week. Should be back to 40+ this week. All at a gentle pace, although it hasn't felt it.
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • mussesseinmussessein ✭✭✭
    That's a bummer DT, mainly because it will scupper your plan to enjoy some down time and celebrate. I'm sure you'll bounce back very quickly. Like you, I've managed to avoid it despite having lots of close contacts - I'm sure it's inevitable that I'll get it sooner or later!

    Hope you feel better soon Alehouse.

    Tuesday was a hilly 16km, 300m climbing in there, the worst hill has a section where the gradient is over 20%.

    6km very easy yesterday. 

    Today was 10km tempo, alternating Kms between slightly slower and slightly faster than HM pace. 4:22, 4:07, 4:15, 4:08, 4:18, 4:08, 4:20, 4:04, 4:17, 4:02. HR was very steady at about 171, slightly sub threshold for me, and the most controlled it's felt doing one of these. That comes out at an average of 4:12 - I've done this session twice before I've raced a half and gone on to run slightly faster, so that gives me a good marker. Pretty happy with that, especially since it was just fuelled by a banana. Couldn't be bothered with a proper cool down afterwards, 500m jog back to the car had to suffice.

    Cotton wool time now!


  • alehousealehouse ✭✭✭
    Yes, easy does it from now, Muss! As far as I know I haven't had Covid and long may it stay that way!

    75 minutes largely off road this morning. Very gentle. Feeling much better but too early to do anything quicker, I suspect. 
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Decent pacing, Muss. The key to the race is to replicate that control early on and not crash and burn by going out completely wild. 

    I'm looking forward to getting back up to that sort of time out running, a nice amount of time on feet.

    I've felt crap today so no run. Very blocked up and a thick head this morning after a very fractious sleep. Went to bed gor 90 mins over lunch and feel better for it. 

    On a plus, I had my England Masters email through earlier. 
  • mussesseinmussessein ✭✭✭
    edited May 16
    DT - hope you're feeling better?

    Alehouse - all sounds good. Any news on the neck?

    Legs feeling unbelievably achey and tired today after two days of about 40/45 mins very easy jogging, so taper madness has well and truly set in! Rest day today, massage tomorrow.


  • alehousealehouse ✭✭✭
    Yes, how's things, DT?

    Neck seems much better at present, Muss. Hope that it stays that way!
    parkrun on Saturday: ran reasonably within myself for just over 25, starting at 5:30 pace for the first k and then 4:35 for the last. Is your race this coming Sunday?
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Nice little progression parkrun, Alehouse. 

    Muss, I think part of the problem is our expectation of how loose we should feel and also you are much more tuned in to how they feel as it's more important than usual. 

    Feeling much better now but still testing positive so will stay clear of spin classes. Thursday was the only day I felt rubbish. 6m easy Friday, 5m Saturday and 8m yesterday. 

    Will go over to the spin studio lunchtime and do my own thing instead of spin tonight. 
  • mussesseinmussessein ✭✭✭
    Alehouse - all sounds good! I enjoy treating parkruns that way, will try to get to more in the future. Yes, the race is Sunday.

    DT - Have you noticed much difference in HR? Good you're feeling well enough to get some decent training in.


  • mussesseinmussessein ✭✭✭
    7km Tues, 8km yesterday, and 7km with some diagonals on grass today. Unsure whether to do 5km including drills and strides tomorrow or on Saturday. 

    HR has been very low this week, this morning I was still seeing figures in the 120s at 3km.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Muss, it was up a bit but not as much as when I was ill start of March. 

    Negative Tuesday so straight to spin for a ftp test which we'd been building too since March. Then 5m easy pm. Yesterday was a session, 3m tempo with miles of 6.17, 6.14 and 6.16 then 5 x 1 min at 5k pace off 1 min. This morning was spin again. Tempo felt surprisingly good, usually after a mara, mara pace feels really hard work but I was more 'why couldnt I run this pace at mk' as opposed 'how the hell did I run a mara close to this pace 2 weeks ago'. 

    I tend to like the day before a half as a complete rest so personally I'd do that tomorrow, many others will tell you the day before is ideal. 
  • mussesseinmussessein ✭✭✭
    I have also always had a rest day before races, but that is also just because that's the way life has worked out. 

    Weather slightly forced my decision today, was feeling soft and couldn't be arsed to go out in the rain two days in a row. Tomorrow I have a day completely off work, and no real plans, so going for a gentle shake out tomorrow seemed more appealing. I suppose you have to experiment with these different things out at some stage anyway!
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Yes it's a lot of trial and error, Muss. Good luck tomorrow. 
  • alehousealehouse ✭✭✭
    Yes, go well tomorrow, Muss! Don't start off too quickly! 
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • mussesseinmussessein ✭✭✭
    Tough day out yesterday. Strava says 16° at the start of the run, and I was feeling hot and thirsty before we'd even started running. 

    Needed the toilet around the time I was supposed to already be in the pen. Jogged over to find massive lines, and almost everyone is on waves D or above, and I'm in wave B. I go to the back of the queue, but no real progress 10 mins later, so go to the front and ask to jump in. No problem, but all the portaloos are out of loo roll! Can't be bothered with joining another queue so just decide to abandon and hope for the best! I fought my way through the pen past three sets of pacers and lots of bodies. Sadiq Khan is there to set us off.

    First 5km timing mat in 21:03, feeling comfortable enough with breathing, but legs feeling heavy already. 10km in 42:04, maybe feeling a little better, but very thirsty. A slight slowdown through 15km, 1:03:30, but nothing too major. The next few Kms are around 4:30, so slower, but still moving ok. But around km 18 I feel some kind of twinge around my right knee and I know a PB is off the table today.

    I see a guy collapse while running around a corner, and stop to help him, but there's no way he should be thinking about finishing the race and more help is on the way. This really kills any ambition to push on, and now it's a question of surviving! 5:30, 5:07, somewhere in here the 1:30 pacers go past, and I just don't have enough to try to stick with them. Looking back, I wish I'd gone out with them and pushed on if feeling good. 5:17 and then 3:35min/km pace for the 200m or so scraps.

    1:32:56 all in, so not what I was hoping for, but having had a look at the splits for the first 20 or so finishers, there was a drop off in pace for all of them after 15km (albeit not as drastic as mine!).

    Twisty but good course, very good atmosphere. Over 10,000 runners - maybe too many for the infrastructure they had in place. Some of the corners were pretty dodgy with so many runners, too. Always seems to be a late May race, and taking all of that into account with the price (£55), will probably not do this one again. 
  • alehousealehouse ✭✭✭
    Sorry to hear that you didn't get what you wanted, Muss...but you weren't far away! On a positive note, you have banked a great block of training so I hope this is put to good use in the next month or so!

    Only 38k last week, largely because the legs are not keen on playing ball. Hamstrings seem tight and calves a little tender. I am putting it down to sitting marking online tests for hours on end. At least both legs are equally bad! Reasonable start to the week with 9k off road. 

    How's things, DT?

    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    That's a shame, Muss. I went out for an easy run Sunday at around 9am and it was pretty warm and humid.

    As Alehouse alludes too though, no reason not to get racing again in 2-3 weeks to get something else out of the block. I used quite often do two half's in reasonably quick succession, so one first weekend of September and another last weekend. The first one was a bit of a sighter and I always went better 2nd time as I had a greater idea from the previous race what my base was. 

    Hope you get the legs moving well soon enough, Alehouse. 

    I've ticked over with easy miles and spin classes. Did a small session yesterday of 5 x 1k then 5 x 400m. Not sure if it's a covid hangover or just having not worked at that intensity for 5 weeks but it was real graft. 

    Off to Turkey Friday for 12 days where its 25c and still at 4am. It'll be 30c and sunny by 10am. Luckily hotel has a gym with a treadmill which will be my go to I suspect. 
  • mussesseinmussessein ✭✭✭
    Enjoy Turkey DT! 

    Alehouse - is a standing desk a possibility? I've been working a lot on the 90/90 position and holding a deep Asian squat recently, and I think my leg muscles have been grateful for it!

    Only pretty light DOMS the day after, and feeling pretty good again now. When I've really raced all out then I've felt much stiffer the day after, so either my body has adapted more, or I didn't quite leave it all out there. Possibly both! 

    The next couple of weeks are pretty mad with weddings, my 30th birthday and lots of travel for work. So I think it makes sense to have a lighter couple of running weeks and then start going again. I'll probably be slightly less structured with training for a while over the summer, and race a bit more. The focus will be 5 and 10k, but may also look for 5 and 10 miles, and hillier or off-road races.
  • alehousealehouse ✭✭✭
    How's things everyone?

    Struggling a bit here with niggly hamstring and hips so of necessity had a bit of a cutback week: 36k last week which was about 10 less than hoped for. Still marking, but hopefully nearly over. I've tried standing and the laptop at different heights but that seems to niggle the back and neck! Can't win. Am trusting everything will settle in time. 
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • mussesseinmussessein ✭✭✭
    Not doing very well for consistency at the moment, but doing ok! 

    Ran the day after my 30th birthday, so that was civilised enough, but the two weddings have both been tough on the body, both because of the dancing and the drinking.

    Last week was only 28km, but I only managed to get out for 3 runs - some very early starts and travel stopped me doing more. This week will also be tricky because I'm going to Lisbon with my girlfriend in holiday. I will aim to get one run in while there, but I'm also keen to enjoy some lazy mornings!

    This morning was my longest effort since Hackney Half at 14.5km, and I managed to fit in some weight and resistance band work in afterwards.

    Since I'm back to base building, and with no races on the horizon, I'm keen to get on more on top of the strength stuff now. I've discovered that my outer hip strength is actually very poor, and while I'm ok at glute bridges/kickbacks etc., anything involving abduction is very weak and range of motion is pretty limited, so I've been focusing on that. Interestingly, after just a few days, some hip stretches that used to feel very intense now feel way better. So I'm hopeful that just getting a little bit stronger in that area will make a difference, both with running and general mobility.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Muss, now is definitely a good time to get into the s and c habit. It's amazing how quickly small muscle groups get stronger with just a few focused sessions. 

    Enjoy Lisbon! 

    Niggles like that do just tend to disappear, Alehouse, so fingers crossed. 

    I've run every other day, nothing major, 4 of 5 runs on treadmill which was hot and sweaty enough. 5m this morning outside destroyed me though in the heat. 

    Sat in airport Waiting flight home. Racing Sunday, leg 18 Welsh castles so I'm hoping I've not done too much damage whilst away. It'll be a good marker of fitness as I start the build back up towards Berlin. 
  • alehousealehouse ✭✭✭
    Enjoy Lisbon, Muss! Have been and would love to go again!

    I look forward to the Castles report, DT!

    Still ticking over here whilst trying to manage the hip and hamstring niggles. 


    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Hard work today, though don't know why I expected anything else after some 5 weeks downtime and a lengthy holiday until Wednesday this week. 

    I kind of had 6mm pace average as a good outcome in my head. Was a little off that at 6.05mm for 8.9m. Managed a top 10 finish though in 8th place.

    My hr stats show I was only working at about 95% with an average of 170 and a max of 177. Usually I'd average closer to 177 and max at mid 180s so perhaps suggests I'm just not quite conditioned enough to hit peak effort. I'm about 3kg over race weight as well, which ì'll sort in the next month. 

    I think it's a reasonable starting point as I'm about to embark on the next cycle. 

    Hope the niggles are OK, Alehouse? 
  • alehousealehouse ✭✭✭
    Good that you know where you are at, DT

    40.31k for the week. Still a little niggly but probably less so!
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • mussesseinmussessein ✭✭✭
    Well done DT, good to get a rustbuster in. 

    Decent week Alehouse, and good that you're moving in the right direction.

    Had a great time in Lisbon, no runs, but lots of walking (including a very hilly 20 mile first day!). Great food, a beautiful place and great weather (although it was a little hot for me, especially if you want to do anything). 

    Have come back with covid, which is a shame, but it's probably as good as any time to get it, as it didn't effect my holiday at all, and this is a relatively light work week anyway! It started as a very low level sore throat that was so mild I ignored/forgot about it, but this got worse as I travelled back yesterday, and by the evening I had shivers/fever and a very bad headache. Even getting up is making me feel very dizzy today, so probably no running for foreseeable here!
  • JGavJGav ✭✭✭
    Quick pop back in. Having a good year running, weight up on last year but a lot more S&C which seems to be helping.

    10 mile PB in Jan in 1.07.xx
    10 k PB at Regent Park recently (first raced standalone 10k since 2017 so soft target)
    HM PB in Cambridge in 1.30.06 😭 legs fell off a cliff and failed to hold form together to get the sub90. Though Strava says I did a 1.29.59 half.

    Prepping for a flat half ironman in a few weeks and planning to run 1.40 for the 13.1m if all goes well. 

    @DT19 Great to see you've moved on from sub3 to targeting 2.45 
    @mussessein sounds like some really good running you're doing and decent HM performance even if it didn't quite work out.
    @alehouse with some consistent training
  • alehousealehouse ✭✭✭
    Good to see you JGav! And you seem to be going well!

    Hope that you are not too badly affected, Muss!

    Legs ok after the relay, DT?

    An hour on Monday (easy), an hour's stretches plus 25 minutes easy yesterday, and then 30+ minutes fartlek this a morning to celebrate becoming a grandfather for the first time! Grandson born early hours!



    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • mussesseinmussessein ✭✭✭
    edited June 15
    Wonderful news alehouse! Do you always celebrate with a fartlek?

    Jgav, good luck for the half ironman! Triathlon is definitely something I'm keen to try, at some stage. Have you raced 70.3 before? And what did you manage for 10k?


    The last couple of days have been pretty grim, I was surprised how badly it effected me as I generally brush off colds pretty well, so expected covid to also effect me mildly. Woke up this morning completely drenched in sweat, but suddenly feeling much better. Still coughing and having to blow my nose quite a bit, but feeling much better otherwise, and RHR currently down to 54 having been in 70s on Monday! Once I see RHR getting back down to around 50 or less and I'm coughing less, I'm keen to head out for another run as it's now 7 days off!
  • JGavJGav ✭✭✭


    Jgav, good luck for the half ironman! Triathlon is definitely something I'm keen to try, at some stage. Have you raced 70.3 before? And what did you manage for 10k?
    You definitely should, there's some great benefits to cross training and it's nice mixing it up.

    Ran 41.xx in the 10k. Not bad but I really think I should be closer to 40, may try another one but freshen up as that was off the back of a heavy training week. Regents Park is a decent course to try for a PB.
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