The Middle Ground

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  • DrDanDrDan ✭✭✭
    Smashing it DT.

    Good consistent work Alehouse!

    Ive survived Covid-19 so far - day 6 and  Mrs D is a much better but still testing +ve, coughing and totally drained. 

    York Tri went well. Very well organised event (although there does seem to be a glitch with the preliminary results - run times are currently a minute too fast). 

    The "400m" pool swim involved a zigzag route from one side of the pool to the other, with 4 wide lanes in which you did 4 lengths before ducking into the next lane and repeating. Although it means you do quite a bit more than 400m, the advantage is that there was no traffic congestion (overtaking space in the middle). I got bang on 8 min in the water, 20s slower than my best 400m TT, which I reckon is as good as a pb.

    The bike leg was 6 laps of a very twisty technical route made more interesting by a lot of standing water and a few dodgy surfaces - I had a few hairy moments but it was fun and neutralised the advantages gained by having a fancy TT bike. My back started to suffer in the 2nd half and I eased off a tad in fear of screwing up the run... averaged 17.3 mph (based on the real distance).

    The run was 5K over 4 laps, partly on the flat tarmac cycle circuit and partly on grass. Legs felt good but stomach was cramping. Overtook a lot of people and came in just uner 22 min.

    57th male out of 197... only 6 of the 56 on front were older than me.

    Really well organised event and I'd definitely do it again.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Alehouse, yes watching it gave me nightmarish flash backs! 

    Good consistency! 

    Muss, all going well? 

    Dr dan, well done in the triathlon. Very respectable performance. Hope you've recovered well?

    20m on Sunday for 68m for last week.  5m and spin Monday, decent session yesterday of 3k at hmp- 3 x 1k at 5kp- 3k at hmp. Was very humid and was drenched by last set. Easy 12m today. 
  • DrDanDrDan ✭✭✭
    More solid training DT!!

    No significant DOMS after the tri but nevertheless it's just a ticking over week here ... bike and run commuting with a club swim. Weekend is the Brum CWG trip, so it's going to be a slack week (but fortunate timing after the 2 races).
  • DrDan, good work on the Tri. Also the fact that you have no DOMS suggests you might have more to come. 

    Very good session DT - I like those hmp/5k mixed sessions. 

    Took a cutback week the week before this one, which coincided nicely with a busy work week with lots of late nights and drinking. I was in the Kent downs at the end of last week and early this week, very good running there - well maintained footpaths clearly signposted, woods, orchards, country lanes and rolling hills. 

    65km this week with 24km long run on Friday. I've traveled to France today, temperatures look to be nicely cool in the mornings, but it will get up to high 30s in the evening, so just about perfect. I'm feeling ready for a light session of some sort, but it's quite hilly here, so might be going off feel rather than paces.
  • DrDanDrDan ✭✭✭
    Enjoy France mus!

    Weekend watching athletics/cycling and overfuelling... back to it with 40 miles of bike today (with good legs too).
  • DrDanDrDan ✭✭✭
    Double run commute yesterday and back on the bike today. Swim with club tonight.

    Ive dug out my calories/macros Spreadsheet (last used 2015) as really need to get on top of nutrition and lose some weight. I think my recent ad hoc attempts have failed due to under-fuelling.


  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Dr Dan, we were probably sat a block over from you and the tier below, looking at your view. 

    Enjoy France, Muss. 

    10m tempo last Friday at 6.16mm then impromptu parkrun Saturday that came out progressive and 19.10 then 21m Sunday for just under 72m.

    Tapering this week, so 5m Monday and 8m today. Yesterday was 4 x 1m off 2 mins which went well. Been making a point of going out at lunchtime to run in the heat in order to desensitise myself as far as possible before Sundays half which looks set to be hot even at 9am. 
  • DrDanDrDan ✭✭✭
    Nice work DT and I admire your acclimatisation suffering.

    Actually I ended up missing my planned morning slot yesterday and ended up with 7 miles in 30+ heat in the afternoon. Legs were hsppg though.

    10 miles bike and 2K swim today, plus hedge cutting tonight🥵.

    Monitoring my macros and calories for the time being and making sure I get much closer to what I need..  can't believe how far off (low) my ad hoc approach was.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Newark half today. Decided Friday with weather forecast to abandon my taper so 8m Friday night and 6m yesterday left me no longer race fresh. 

    Lewis suggested I run it between half and mara pace and mentioned 6.10mm. Sat at 6.10 average pretty much whole race coming in 80.57 and first in age cat so £40 cash prize. 

    It was very hot in second half, a mix of fast rising temp and being on treeless country roads so nowhere to shelter. My average hr was only 167, usually it'd be between 170-175 for a raced half and I only moved to the red zone from mile 11. However I dont think I could have run it any faster without imploding through over heating. Most were a good 3 mins down on usual times. 

    Leaves me with 56m for week. Off to Algarve Tuesday for a week timed nicely after a pretty big block this last 7 weeks, particularly last 4, so a recovery week then back for last 5 weeks to Berlin. 
  • DrDanDrDan ✭✭✭
    Sensible racing DT. Enjoy the holiday and recovery.

    22:22 parkrun and 2nd M55-59. 32s down on last time but too hot to go full gas, although did pusb hard at thd end.

    12  miles in zone 1/2  today, bringing up 34 for the week alongside 60 bike and 2.3 pool... 11 hours.
  • alehousealehouse ✭✭✭
    Decent day out in the circumstances, DT! And enjoy the Algarve!

    Similar experience here re parkrun, DrDan. 2nd in age group, 24:42 for 69.8% age grading. Not the easiest course with several inclines plus steps to be negotiated twice. 46 seconds quicker than April when I last visited. Went out cautiously and then each km was progressively quicker. 25 degrees at the end. Hoping tomorrow is a little cooler for my hour with my M77 neighbour. Over 30 for today's run. Doesn't happen very often around here. Took a cut back week due to the heat and probably good for letting a few niggles settle.
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • DrDanDrDan ✭✭✭
    Nice parkrun Alehouse!

    Bike/ run/ bike commuting for Mon-Wed with swims on Mon and Wed. Tired after 10 days straight but out of office is on until 5th Sept. Rest day tomorrow then six nights in Wales coming up, so hopefully some ticking over runs and then 5K race on Wednesday.

  • Hope all is well everyone?

    France was good - I did less running than I would have liked as a lot of wine was consumed, it was brutally hot, and my work schedule was also heavier than anticipated! I had a couple of mishaps while there: getting stuck in quicksand, which was a little scary, and rolling my ankle on a very bumpy downhill which also had lots of loose rocks. It was ok to run on straight after, but hasn't been quite right since - it's mainly fine, but I still feel it when cornering. It was beautiful there though, and very hilly - lots of 3-4km climbs around 5%. Very different to the shorter but much steeper climbs I'm used to.

    Work has been quite crazy since, so I'm running reduced mileage. I went up to Edinburgh for a work trip and running was good around there. I was also struck at the sheer number of runners there.

    I have an entry for Big Half on 4th September, but need to fly to Italy in the afternoon for work. I don't feel in shape to go all out, especially with the travel, but I'm thinking about using it as an opportunity to do a longer tempo or mixed pace run. It could be tight timing wise so may just give it a miss.

    I currently have no other races in the diary which I'll need to address! I fancy a half in October or November, and I'm also starting to think about a spring mara for next year. London is obviously top of the list, but will also look for others on that date as a backup. 
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Quicksand??? I thought that was something that was a major problem for tarzen in the old days tv series but no one else!! How did you get out? 

    A pleasant 8 days in Portugal. Except for the travel and middle day I went out every morning so 6 runs in just easy covering 41m in total ranging from a 4m to a 10m run. 

    10m, 6m, 6m so far since back. Off out short for a big mixed paced long. Not ideal timing but my wife went to gym at 9.30 and isn't back yet, so could get warm. 4 weeks now and Berlin will be over. 

    The positive was that I went on holiday just a little about race weight and anticipated spending the next 4 weeks dragging it back down but I've returned the same weight. 

    2 big weeks to come, my biggest ever in fact then taper. 
  • alehousealehouse ✭✭✭
    Yes, soon be taper time, DT!

    Busy, Muss!

    Ticking over here whilst managing niggles. Today's 72 minutes brought up 191.43km in August (118.95 miles). Highest total this year...just. And just one parkrun. 
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • Ran round parkrun this morning, with the aim of between 26 and 27 minutes with my M77 neighbour. 25:40 with a couple of gears not engaged, so reasonably pleased. Progressive. 

    Tomorrow, Muss

    All ok, DT?
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    I've had to pull back from my peak week. Calfs have been ridiculously tight since holiday and on Tuesdays 12m about half way in the left one spasmed a bit. 

    Took Wednesday and Thursday off and did a lot of stretch and massage. Easy 6m yesterday and today and all seems good so back on schedule tomorrow with peak length long of 23m. It'll still be a 53m week all being well tomorrow so not a total disaster. 

    May well reduce my taper a bit as coming straight off hols as well that's 3 weeks not quite at the level I'd expect at this point so not carrying the fatigue. 

    Nice work on the parkrun. 
  • DrDanDrDan ✭✭✭
    Glad we didn't lose you to quick-sand Mus! ;-)

    I once got into some bother in later 1980s on a beach near Vancouver after running along a massive beach and then realising I was sinking. I ran very fast and eventually made it to dry sand. The other thing I realised about that beach as I came across people was that I was the only person wearing any clothes.

    Nice parkrunning Alehouse!

    Sounds like you've had a bit of holiday disruption to the routine DT but sure you'll be able to adapt and get back on track.

    I was lazier than expected on holiday in Wales and just did the one 7 miler. I came back to a 5K race (22:05) and then 3 days later a 22:38 tempo effort at parkrun. Also did a 10K tempo effort (47:40) at our clubs 10K TT event (my legs were not up to an all-out effort after heavy bike/swim the day before). My back was giving me grief too, so I took the weekend off. Back to the routine this week. Two weeks until the standard distance triathlon and 3 weeks until the sprint tri ... feeling fit but worried my back will not survive the run (again).

    The main thing holding back any progress in speed is my weight ... still operating at 22 lb / 10kg heavier than 2016/17. I've been doing some calories counting and it turns out I've been massively underfuelling given the 7-9 hours training per week ... suspect my body has been in defense mode for a while. Hopefully the holiday excess and reduced training have reset things and I'll now focus on staying 500 kcal under my daily expenditure (rather than 1300 kcal). Bonus is I can eat more., especially as I've also ditched the alcohol.


  • DrDanDrDan ✭✭✭
    Decent week so far...

    Mon: bike commute and 2K swim;
    Tue: 2x 5.1 mi run commutes;
    Wed: bike commute and quarterly CSS test* which also brought up 50 mile for the year;
    Thur: 2x 5.1 mi run commutes.

    *CSS tests: 400m time trial, recover, 200m time trial. Our club do them quarterly. Have made some big gains.

             400m  200m
    Dec    8:52   4:23
    Mar    8:10   3:52
    Jun     7:58   3:59
    Sep    7:45   3:38

  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Well done on the progress with the testing, Dr Dan. Hope the weight is coming off. 

    I have the same issue, I can make loads of effort to lose weight and nothing happens gor a few weeks as my body is holding back then it's like a switch flicks and weight just drops off. 

    I'm having a peak week now. Two pretty big sessions done, plenty of easy miles and 2 spin classes. 20m tomorrow will give me 74 for week, my highest ever.

    This for me has felt like the hardest summer to train through. I dont think I've run in less than 20c in months given I go out at lunchtime and when it has been the cooler end it's been really humid. 
  • DrDanDrDan ✭✭✭
    edited September 2022
    Well done on the super-peak week DT. Taper time!

    Just ticking over here, mostly commuting runs/cycles but got in a swim and a longer club ride. Dorney Lake Tri Sunday (tomorrow) which surprisingly wasn't cancelled.  We drove down to London yesterday.... Mrs Dan wants to see some of the QEII sites/tributes in London so slightly concerned I'll spend too long on my feet. If I dont drown in the lake, I'll check in with a race report next week.

  • DrDanDrDan ✭✭✭
    Swim was OK... it was straight into the water and off, so I started very steadily with some breast stroke in order acclimatise and avoid a panic attack like I had at Leeds Tri. Actually, I did start to panic when we turned into the "surf" being blown along by a very stiff wind, but another minute of breaststroke calmed me down and I actually really enjoyed the rest of it. I obviously lost some time at the start but ended up with 33:55 (about 1500 m).

    Bike was 8 laps of a 5.3K circuit - my Garmin was still on swim mode due to pressing the wrong button going in/out of T1. I had no clue what speed I was doing nor was I able to judge what Iap I was on based on my bike time. I did work out the issue by about half way around. Pan flat but the wind on the top half was brutal (15 mph into the wind, 23 mph on the return). I couldn't even hear myself think going into it but made maximum use of my tri bars ... and felt very sorry for those without them. Unfortunately a group of us were stopped for a minute or two at the 20 mile point to let an ambulance out which may have cost me a place in the age cat. Ended up with 1:23:16 (42.4km) - average speed 19 mph/30.6 kph.

    Run was 4 times up and down the top side of the lake. Boring as hell but very flat and very busy as the Sprint Distance athletes were now on the course. I felt good at first but in the 2nd half my lower back started to trouble me yet again. Nevertheless, it wasn't terminal and I passed 100s of people and was only overtaken by 3, which was good for the confidence. Final time 49:10 (10 km).

    94th/317 over all, 84th/272 men, and 5th/16 M55-59 (3 M60-64 also beat me).

    My aerobic fitness is great ... just need to sort my back out and lose 10 kg.
  • All sounds good, DrDan! Except for the back and weight. 

    Some sympathy with the back: I have been seeing a physio as I seem to have a trapped nerve somewhere in my upper back which is leading to intermittent, but frequent, numbness and pain anywhere from my fingers to my shoulder blades. Doesn't happen when running, and if I use a spiky massage ball under my feet it usually disappears! If I sit on a hard chair it re-appears! Saw the GP this morning and she is referring me to another physio who in turn will probably send me for a scan. She has also upped the painkillers. 

    In running news, over 50k for the last three weeks. 

    Not long now, DT!
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • DrDan - well done on the Tri performance! Sounds like a good bike leg in particular. Have you considered doing some training in an outdoor pool to acclimatise? 

    Two thoughts about lower back:
    -Is your bike set up optimally for your height? TT position in particular is quite hard on your back.
    -Glute strength/hip stretching - if your hip flexors are too tight, or glutes too weak, your hip won't be able to extend properly and your lower back will move instead to compensate. 


    Good mileage, Alehouse! You are having a better time of it than me! 

    I decided not to run Big Half, as I was still getting the odd twinge in my ankle. Instead I ran 16km just to test it out, no problems.

    Florence was very hot and humid, but got out for some pleasant enough runs. Only other thing to mention was that a 10km run only involved 7m of elevation, and that was going over a bridge! Umbria was also beautiful, I would highly recommend visiting.

    Last week in Cornwall was much better for running - I managed to fit 47km (including 819m elevation!) into a busy work schedule. A mixture of SW coastal path, inland footpaths and bridleways. Some of the terrain was absolutely insane to run on, with some near vertical gradients, that were hard to climb and terrifying to descend and very narrow paths close to very sheer drops! My ankle held up well on all the very technical ground, and feels normal now. I also got into the sea twice on most of the days, but not much actual swimming was done!

    I'm absolutely knackered after two pretty full on work weeks, but have a week off, and am looking forward to getting a decent week in. Kicked things off with a decent 13.5km this morning. 

    Good luck DT - you're in terrific shape.
    I found this summer was very hard, hot and humid without having any rain for relief. I'm really enjoying the temperatures at the moment though!
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Sorry guys, work has been crazy last week or so then I broke my phone on weekend and only had it back today. Work phone and laptop have forum's blocked.

    Well done on the tri, Dr Dan. 

    Alehouse I have an issue with my left arm. Often wake with numb lower arm and I seem to have a point at bottom of left bicep that if I hold my arm out at a certain angle it twitches. Had a sports massage today and she found my upper left back and neck very tight. She was doing some work on my neck and whenever she hit a particular spot I'd get nerve pain right down inner bicep. 

    Cornwall is pretty hilly, Muss. Much like I found Devon to be.

    I've ticked over this week and had a couple of sports massages. All packed and ready gor the off in the morning. Weight is right down to 65kg but I also feel and look leaner than I have before. Weather forecast looks bang on also. Fancy a kipchoge world record on the day. 
  • DrDanDrDan ✭✭✭
    edited September 2022
    Good mileage Alehouse... hope the physio works out.

    Mus - yes, happy with the bike leg given the wind. My back issue is definitely a gluteal problem ... plan to take things in hand once the off season begins. Looks like you had a fruitful time on those Cornish hills.

    Time to nail it DT! By comparison I am 90 kg😬.

    Ticking over week here. Travelling back from London on Monday, bike commuting Tues/Wed, Swim speed sesh Wed night, and then run commutes Thurs. Rest day Fri and Sat so Im ready for the final Tri of the season tomorrow at Ilkley. 500m pool swim, 15k bike, 5k run... silly hills, so very different to last week. Lots of the club are there  so should be a good finale.


  • DrDan - carrying more weight is to be expected if your focus is more on Tri than running. Swimming and biking are both going to lead to adaptations of carrying more muscle mass. Good luck for tomorrow!

    DT - go well tomorrow, and enjoy! 

    This week is going much better for me - weds was 8.5km recovery (albeit at a faster pace, but significantly lower HR than the Tuesday!), 16km on hills on Thurs, 1,200m swim at the lido yesterday (19c was feeling pretty chilly by the end), and 11km with parkrun (20:17) this morning. A little disappointed not to go sub 20 today. Average HR was only 172 (and max 176), so looks like I could have pushed a lot harder, but just didn't feel I had any extra gears. That was pretty much the only fast running I've done since Hackney, asides from a few strides here and there. Form will return fast enough if I can stitch 6-8 good weeks together, though!
  • Nice one DT! Well deserved!
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Thanks, Alehouse. Sort of csnt comprehend that in old money I've run a London champs time. Just the 34 mins faster than my first mara in 2014. 
  • DrDanDrDan ✭✭✭
    Amazing run DT!!
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