Howdy, Stranger!
Categories
Options
The Middle Ground
The materials in this website are in no way intended to replace the professional medical care, advice, diagnosis or treatment of a doctor, qualified personal trainer, therapist, dietitian or nutritionist Runners's World, Part of the Hearst UK well-being network © Copyright 2017
Comments
Hope things have progressed well, Alehouse?
Dr Dan, a good weekends running last weekend. Hope things have gone well this week?
Peak week this week. Big session Tuesday of 8m at mara pace, came out 6.09mm and was a pretty moderate effort with hr averaging 155. 3 mins recovery then 5 x 1m at 5.40s off 1 min. Came in 5.40, 5.40, 5.39, 5.39 and 5.48. 17m in total with wu and cd.
Road relays yesterday. Set off about 20s behind a group of 4. I was aware that we had a bad start and most teams go from best to worst runner across the long legs so being the final long leg I felt I had a chance to claw time back as we were furyher down the field than usual and i wasnt going to be our worst long leg. One of the lads was someone I know who is also running Boston who recently ran a sub 36, 10k. Took the first mile steady so as not to ruin myself like last year and just remained patient behind the group ahead. First mile was 5.56, then things began flattening. By mile 2 I had passed all 4 of those ahead but the guy I knew stuck to me for a mile or so but I was able to kick more as the course starting flattening out and moving downhill. 5.51, 5.51 for next 2m. Then in mile 4 I saw another runner ahead and could tell he was going backwards fast, no doubt had tried to smash the first hilly mile. Took him quickly with a 5.45mm then cracked on down hill with a 5.34. Last 0.4m or so came in 5.47 as they undulated again but pleased to get round in 31.43 for 5.47mm average on a tricky course and make up 5 places for the team and run our fastest long leg.
Decent outing on an untapered peak week. Followed it up with 20 this morning at 7.35mm. Legs were a bit tired but didn't trouble me particularly. Time to start scaling it back now.
Back home from work at half midnight last night, and upstairs neighbour had people over and were making a lot of noise, so didn't get to sleep for quite a while. That's off the back of a less than ideal week sleep wise, so hoping that I'll be able to catch up this week. Wasn't feeling up for this race at all until yesterday afternoon.
5:30 alarm, two bagels for breakfast, then hop in the car to drive to Richmond station car park. At £20 for 5 hours, I wish I'd booked the official parking that was at £15... But driving was a last minute decision based on changed work schedule, so can't be helped.
I was going to get the bus on to Kew, but the bus stop was rapidly filling up with people, so I decided to get the tube instead. Just as well, as I got to use the toilet in the station, and avoid the awful queues in Kew Gardens. Everyone was waiting to use a very small number of cubicles, and I can't imagine everyone who needed to go got their chance.
Race pack collection was straightforward, bag drop was quick, so onto a quick warm up at about 8:10 for 8:30 start . Feeling pretty good, quick dart into a bush for a final comfort stop, and into the pens.
A few minutes delay to starting, for some reason. And we're off. The sub 1:30 pacers have shot off within the first minute or so. I let them go, and the first km comes up in 4:11. They're still 50m or so ahead, so I try to get a bit closer. As we go through the mile 1 marker, I see 5:42 on my watch, and I'm thinking that I've got something badly wrong! But there's only 1.4km on the clock, so no need for panic with the pacing. Mile 2 coincides with my watch beeping for 3k, and mile 3 comes more like 4.6km, so something has clearly gone wrong somewhere. It's around here I finally get past the 1:30 pacers. The first 5k comes up in 20:45 according to my watch. Somewhere shortly after here, I hear an announcer at a timing mat mention that 4th, and shortly after 5th place women are up ahead, maybe 100m or so. Running in Kew Gardens is very nice, pancake flat, and pretty well sheltered from the wind that is stronger than forecast.
Around 9k we come out of the park itself into the Thames path. At this stage, the path becomes more of a dirt track, with puddles, branches, and the odd member of the public to avoid. A decent group of around 7/8 has formed and we stay together for about 3km, though we have to string out because of the narrowness of the path. Through 10k in 41:26, so second 5k in 20:41.
Things start to get lonelier in this 3rd 5km. Somewhere around 13km, we see faster runners coming back toward us - one guy solo, followed 20s or so later by 5/6 others. I'm struck by just how much these guys seem to be rinsing themselves. As we get onto the loop they've just come off, it's slightly dodgier footing. 5th, and eventually 4th place women are coming back to me, and I find myself on my own going through 2/3 of the way. I've got a bit of a gap on the people behind, but I don't fancy bridging on to the runners ahead. Through the next 5k in 20:42, and as we turn to come back onto the Thames path, there's a pretty stiff headwind.
The next company I have is from two guys coming up very quick behind - I spoke to them after and they were using this as a progressive run. I latch on for a bit, but it's a bit more than I'm in for today. It brings me a bit closer to some of the runners ahead, but they've strung out, and I'm just picking up the odd person that's been spat out the back.
The 10 mile marker comes up at 15.8km, so we're running out of time for the distances to correct. I'm still waiting to feel terrible, but that doesn't hit till 18km. I'm finding the wind tough, and the narrow path is tough to navigate with runners still coming the other way, too. 4th 5k in 20:57. There's a runner ahead in yellow who I can tell is getting closer, but not quickly enough. All of a sudden, I hear a really loud ”hee-haw” kind of breathing pattern coming up behind me, and it's coming up surprisingly quickly. He comes past, and there's not much I can do about it. But we're round a corner, and here's the line! I find myself sprinting past (although I can feel the cramp setting in, so it's not that fast!), and the yellow vest is crossing the line narrowly ahead of me.
1:27:18 on the watch, down to 1:27:14 chip time... Except I've only run 21.02km according to my watch. From my Strava flybys, people seem to have covered between 20.9 and 21.15km, but more people are short than long.
Weird day out in lots of ways - getting to 18km and feeling pretty good I wondered if I'd undercooked it. But crossing the line I'm not sure I've rinsed myself more... And yet I'm pretty sure I could have done more.
I did enjoy this course, even with two big issues in the potential measuring problem and the toilet situation! With lots of races this week, and big marathons coming up, depth in the field was noticeably lacking, but I'm not sure the nature of the course could have accommodated many more runners.
Needless to say, I wasn't much use at work afterwards!
DT, well done on a good relay showing and another great week. I definitely wouldn't fancy 20m after a tough Saturday!
I was running for a bit with a guy today who was doing a half at mara effort ahead of Boston. He ended up doing 2 mins faster than planned, I hope that doesn't effect his race!
Good work on the HM muss - got to be happy with that.
Hope the low HR strategy is working out alehouse.
Last week started well... bike commuting with swim Mon & Wed and with 5 mi runs Tues & Thurs. On ride back on Thurs my back locked up... moved a cooker Thurs morning, so must have been that, although club swim TT on Wed night maybe contributed. Took Fri-Sun off as was in pain but today (Mon) I was ok. Luckily I'm on annual leave, so headed out for a long one... supposed to be 20 mi but some poor maths enroute meant I turned around half a mile further down canal towpath than needed, so accidentally did 21 miles. Came out at 9:19/mi and 122 bpm (Z1) and I felt comfortable for most of it. All good.
And good races from both DT and Muss. Take it easy now DT!
And I think that there is a fair chunk to come off that time, Muss.
Running gradually improving and a better run this morning as I accompanied my M78 neighbour on his 40 minute birthday run, my longest for exactly 5 weeks. Figures are gradually getting back to where they should be but am very tired still. I also have a bit of a back problem and physio wants me to have a scan on that and my dodgy shoulder. Some will remember I fractured my sacrum three years or so ago when I was knocked over in a supermarket: very similar pain now so physio wants to rule out anything similar.
Good news regarding the run improvement, Alehouse. I recall the fracture, I hope it isn't any sort of relapse somehow.
Muss that's a great run. What's your pb? I wouldn't dwell on gps measure. By example the road relay Saturday was exactly the same course as last April. My gps measured 5.40m last year, this year 5.48.
If the originally planned mara pace was accurate then 2 mins quicker won't ruin his race. The problem comes if the planned pace is an optimistic pace already.
Re faster runners rinsing themselves, the faster you are the the harder you can push sooner. Someone running 35 mins for a 10k can get compounded gains to someone running 45 mins as the effort you can hold for 45 mins is different to that for 35 mins. You can afford to go harder sooner. If the lad up front was 5mm pace, at 13k he only has 25 mins left.
6m easy today, 10 x 1k tomorrow. Doesn't seem very taper like but that's more than half the distance of effort from last Tuesday so contextually it is a tapered session.
DrDan, I'd missed that you're running a marathon so soon. Suddenly your rapid stepping up of long runs is making more sense! Good disciplined long run, a couple more of those and you'll be in a good place for Leeds.
DT, what was the effort level for that session? Enjoy the taper! How long do you have in Boston before and after the race? Previous PB was 1:29:36.
Not much running so far this week, just 7km recovery yesterday which was a pleasant. Not so much soreness after Sunday, just mainly haven't been bothered to get up at 6:30 to go out in the rain to do what would be short easy runs.
I'll be in chester, dr dan.
Its been a miserable week, muss! The session was 10k effort but legs were still a bit sore from weekend so decided to pull it in a bit. Bizarrely though, effort was controlled and more half mara effort but reps came in 3.27 to 3.33.
12m Wednesday, rest yesterday then 10 at mara pace today. Decided to sit at 6.10mm which felt perfect, averaged 6.09 with all miles a couple of seconds either side of the line.
Popping to parkrun tomorrow for a social jog then 14 on Sunday. After that things fall off a cliff a bit .
Good week DT, must feel good that all the hard stuff is out the way now, and very few missed runs. 10 at MP is still a pretty tough run, you sound very casual about it!
Easy does it now, DT!
Hope you are soon back to some consistency, Muss!
Progress here as well in that today's run felt more "normal". 2.38 km out, average pace 6:34, ave HR 110; 3.01 back, ave pace 5:55, ave HR 119. Felt well in control on the way back rather than pushing things. Comfy.
Followed by a couple of sessions at cricket in glorious weather: 16 degrees and yesterday's wind has dropped. Was frost on the car first thing though!
My medical report: saw GP on Wednesday as physio thought that the back pain might be related to a kidney infection. It isn't. The down side is that as the back pain is quite low down, so to speak, she is duty bound to notify my prostate cancer guy. On a more positive note, I have an appointment next Thursday with a consultant friend to look at both my back and my shoulder, if he has time to examine both.
Oh OK, hadn't realised you'd run a sizeable pb. Top work.
As for 10 at mara pace, in the context of some of the sessions I've run last 8 weeks it isn't too bad. Plus, many find 10 at mp a big session as they are running at desired mp not genuinely mp. It'd be like me running 6.00-6.05mm as that's what I want it to be. I am hoping I've understated mp as that hasn't touched sides today.
Alehouse, nice to see some progress. Hopefully your guy can identify the issue to avoid any further doubt.
I'm in Paris for much of the time between now and mid May. Kicked off with an Easter Day half around Bois de Boulogne in glorious weather. Absentmindedly stepped too close to the edge of the kerb and landed awkwardly, and felt something unpleasant in my left ankle. Within 30 seconds, the pain subsided, so gingerly started walking, and then running again. Continued up to 21km, and obviously within a few minutes of stopping, it all started to tighten up and I really regretted adding on the extra distance. Things settled down though, and walking felt fine, so obviously I did the sensible thing, and walked another 20km to bring me up to 45,000 steps... And by the end it had really tightened and was affecting my walking badly. No problem weight bearing on that for, but very restricted movement.
Fortunately, this morning it feels much better, but I'll be taking the metro as much as possible, and will definitely be taking a few days off running. I've started doing all the ankle circle/drawing the alphabet stuff which feels ok, I could barely do any movement yesterday evening so that's encouraging at least.
Hope the rest has resulted in a full recovery mus.
10 at MP looking very good DT. That's my favourite run (see below). Cotton wool time for you now.
Easter has been a bit different - no swimming or cycling, a few extra calories, and only a few runs ...but all of them long or longish. The last one was a 12.4 mi with "10 at MP", although certainly not a pace I will be attempting at Leeds. HR traces below show identical 10 mile runs 15 days apart (out-and-back 5 mile, then repeated) - did the 2nd one only 7s/mi faster than the first and got huge HR drift ... shows pretty clearly that my LT1 threshold is somewhere in-between. Felt good on the 2nd one and pushed last 0.5 mi to get in under 8min/mi... but clearly would have hit problems within a few more miles. Good session though.
Back to work, so on the bike today... and also back in the pool tonight. Have signed up for Tadcaster sprint tri on bank holiday Monday (13 days before marathon).
Enjoy Paris. I'm taking my son in 2 weeks for his birthday. Off yo watch psg.
Dr Dan, yes it's a nice session. Not exhausting but satisfyingly tiring.
Iam very much done. Work finished, running done, suitcase packed and ready to fly tomorrow. Now to obsess with the weather.
Weight 4lb lighter than Berlin which was my lightest race weight so interesting to see if that helps.
Good training Dan. As you're not treating this mara as a race, will you taper? I personally get big differences in HR data according to weather - even small temperature increases can result in 10+ BPM readings at easy effort. Do you know what your max/LT2 HR is? That graph looks like you're hitting the right kind of effort right up to 9.5 miles, personally I wouldn't say it looks like huge HR drift.
My ankle improved dramatically through Monday, so much so that I did 8km on Tuesday morning, followed by 14km and 16km on Wednesday and Thursday, and 10km today. Also managed to fit in lots of walking, 13km on Wednesday, and 18km yesterday.
Wow muss ... definitely seem to be over the ankle issue!
Aim of my 10 mi session should be to stay in Z2 (green), as in top session at 8:06 min/mi, as that's the most efficient spot for developing aerobic endurance. In 2nd one, at 7:59/mi, I was into Z3 after 5K. MaxHR is prob 176 bpm... I haven't had a lab test since 2017 (when I ran 3:30 and 3:22) so my LT1/2 numbers are out of date now as nowhere near as fit.
In other news, I'm now 20lb lighter than on Jan 1st.
And excellent work Dan
Race tracking....
https://results.baa.org/2023/
Enjoy the rest of the trip! Looking forward to the report and your thoughts! Well done!
I take comfort from fact kipchoge was 8 mins off his Berlin time whilst I was 100s. I doubt he's sat at home now questioning his fitness.
So as you say, Alehouse, Boston and Berlin aren't directly comparable beasts.
Last long one for me - 23 miles at 9/mi. So 21, 25 and 23 in last 20 days. I feel ready to BEGIN marathon training now.
3 weeks to Leeds... I'd do another long one next week, as not racing the marathon, but it's Tadcaster Tri on BH Monday so will do that instead. Also have a 5K Wednesday evening, if my legs recover!
An amazing performance today from Kiptum on his second mara - surely only a matter of time before he takes the WR and runs 2:00 or even 1:59! Especially given the weather and the fact that London is not the fastest course. Running a 13:50 5k and a 59:xx half in a mara is just staggering. It will be interesting to see him and Kipchoge race.
You're going well Dan, I hope you enjoy Leeds. Must be nice to go into a race without any pressure and be able to enjoy other events in the build up.
77.5km for me this week without a long run, I did 9, 11, 13.5, 0, 15, 14, 16. First week where I've felt motivated and ready to do some actual training. I was in London for the first half of the week, and Paris for the second. It's interesting running in Paris. The places where it's easiest to run without bumping into tourists/crossing roads are parks, and the shared cycle paths along the river. They're pretty much pancake flat, and the surfaces seem much more uniform and harder than pavements in the UK. As a result, I'm feeling pretty sore considering I've just been running easy miles, and nothing too long. Glutes (particularly glute med), groin and TFL all feeling a bit sore and niggly. Had a good foam rolling/stretching session yesterday, which helped, but will probably try and get a massage next week, now that I've finally been payed for a bunch of work I did months ago.
Entered London Mara ballot for next year, and it's coming up to the time where I have to make a decision on whether or not to enter Richmond mara in September. I've got a busy summer with a fair amount of travel, some in hot climates, and September is a little too early in Autumn for my liking. But I also don't know if I can fit in a mara around work commitments later on in the season. But I'm feeling ready to train for something, so I should come up with a plan soon!
Good luck with the London ballot. I'm running Chester early October.
Dr Dan, that's some serious long runs. You should be well prepared.
Yesterday hurt! Walking up the hill out of blackheath my quads were sore. Within a few miles they were battered. Plan was to go out at a pace that allowed me to get to halfway without killing myself but also put me in the picture to push on for a decent ish time (sub 2.50). Went through halfway in 85.07 and whilst aerobically it was comfortable my legs were far from it. Progressed pace second half, last 6 were hard as quads were a full mess by then and I wasn't on for a pb, so or cr so hard to mentally persuade myself to keep on pace. Second half in 1.23 got me in for 2.48.
My average hr was 5 less than Boston which reflects how I felt aerobically and given there was only 5s per mile between the two suggests that had I not run Boston and targeted London I'd have been well on for a pb. Pleased with the race management and pacing though.
That's my 10th consecutive sub 3 with 5 being sub 2.50.
Easy few weeks now. Taking my son to Paris next weekend for his 13th birthday to predominantly watch psg play.
Now that things have settled, what are your reflections on the two marathons, DT?
Going well, Dan: you have come a long way in a relatively short time.
Still plodding just over 30k per week which since Covid have seemed harder than my regular 50k weeks, and they are slower for a higher HR. Trust that things will improve over time.
Can't remember if I said, but I had scans on both my lower back and right shoulder with the results next Tuesday.