The Middle Ground

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  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Happy 57, Dr Dan, shame the running gods didn't want to play ball. 

    Hope tonight's race went OK?

    Managed 50m last week. Leg 8 was tough. Arrived at venue following a 2hr 30 drive and car said 26c. As some cloud cover came in, it felt like an oven. Realised on the drive there as I saw 'caution runners' signs I was driving my leg in reverse and I was just a winding non stop downhill there! 

    Race started and everyone charged off whilst I ran a 6.26mm so well within myself. I was pretty confident that 25 or so runners ahead were not going to run this leg in the heat at sub 6mm. Pace dropped off very quickly and I picked off runner after runner, ended up coming in 8th which was adequate. It was our clubs highest finish of weekend. The guy who came 10th, about 90s behind ran a 5.30 Mile 1 which says it all. 

    5 x 1k and 6 x 400m yesterday lunchtime was tough work. Its my 50th parkrun Saturday,  almost 10 years to weekend after my first where I ran 19.34 and was battered. So far 49 under 20 mins with a 19.59 being  slowest so if nothing else 10 year spread and all under 20 (and there were many times that was a push) shows consistency in fitness. 
  • DrDanDrDan ✭✭✭
    edited June 2023
    That sounds like excellent racing DT.

    Tonight's race was hard - hot and hilly. I swapped my usual cap for sunglasses to improve heat loss but then struggled in the low sun on the decents which were very steep and on rough road surfaces... quads and toes took a battering too (I actually preferred the steep ups). Time of 81ish which is meaningless given my Z2 10 milers are usually 80 min. I came 6th in age cat and have club champs points on the board - this was the first of 10 races.
  • DrDanDrDan ✭✭✭
    Some age-grade lines drawn in the sand for June'23 to June '24. Thinking that I may not do another marathon this year and instead target VoY HM in September followed by Abbey Dash 10K in October as my main A races.


  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Sounds like a tough race, Dr Dan! 

    I've ground after years of no toenail damage that I constantly with black or lost toenails this last 12-18 months.

    Went for a parkrun smash yesterday to celebrate my 50th psrkrun and 10th anniversary of my 1st one.

    Came in 17.24 for 4s pb which was pleasing, particularly so soon after holiday snd the down period post mara. 10k in 2 weeks where I'll be targeting a sub 36. 
  • DrDanDrDan ✭✭✭
    Cracking parkrun DT. It prob took me 8 years to get to 50, so good going!  ;)

    22:00 for 2nd old git for me at parkrun and then 14.5 slow miles on Sunday... and 34 miles bike today. 5K race Wednesday, so no more running until then.
  • DrDanDrDan ✭✭✭
    edited June 2023

    21:36 at the evening 5K... went out too hard and paid for it... a 6:45 first mile would have been more sensible. But still 71.6% age-grade and 46 of the 48 who beat me were younger.
  • alehousealehouse ✭✭✭
    edited June 2023
    Decent 5k, despite the tactics, Dan! Won't be too long before you can hold 6:30s I hope. 

    Looked up my own age grading times for next January when I turn 70: 

    70%
    Mile 7.18
    5k 24:55
    10k 51:04 (doubt that I will race any further than that, but we'll see!)

    75%
    Mile 6:49
    5k 23:15
    10k 47:39

    80%
    Mile 6:23
    5k 21:48
    10k: 44:41

    Just passed day 700 of my streak! 2 years around July 20th. 

    Running around 40k a week and am gradually (re-)introducing speedwork. With the emphasis on gradually. 

    I note the parkrun, DT, and the Welsh Castles! Heading in the right direction!

    How are you doing, Muss? Races coming up?


    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • mussesseinmussessein ✭✭✭
    Good work on the 5k Dan. It can take a few 5ks to zone in on the right effort, especially when you're in the swing of longer distances.

    DT, I hope conditions are good for your 10k. 

    How's the shoulder alehouse? I think you should be aiming for 75% or even 80%! What was your best WAVA in the open category? I seem to remember your 5k time was very impressive!

    It's been very busy with work recently. Still been running plenty though, but haven't been able to think about racing. If I do, it will just be LFotM or parkrun.

    I also twisted my ankle, mid long run two weeks ago, after stepping on a tree root. I was 12km away from home, and decided not to run further on it, though I probably could have done. It was significantly better after one day of rest, and came conveniently just before I was about to take a recovery week anyway, so felt good about making the sensible decision.

    It feels completely fine now, though I was very close to twisting it again on my long run yesterday! I was running on a trail that has become very overgrown, and there was a big rock or branch hidden from view that I rolled off, but fortunately I managed not to cause any damage. I've enjoyed doing long runs on the hillier trails recently, but it does feel much riskier on the ankles.

    I ran 88km last week, 28km yesterday in the heat was a real slog, and a couple of tempoish runs: one 17km progression, and one 16km with 6km continuous tempo in the middle alternating between HM effort and something a little easier. Those came out pleasingly controlled as 4:26, 4:05, 4:25, 4:04, 4:25, 4:03. 

    No races set in stone, but the plan is still to do a marathon in October, and will look to do a half in September, but probably not all out. I wouldn't rule out doing an ultra after mara recovery, but by then we're looking at November, and it's really at the tail end of the season, so may have to leave this for next summer.
  • alehousealehouse ✭✭✭
    Training well, Muss! Lucky with the ankle by the sounds of things! I'd try and get at least a parkrun or two in whilst things are going well! And I would do the half full on if it is three weeks or more before the marathon. 

    Best WAVA appears to be over a mile (85.68); 5000  was 85.21 but the one that I feel was the best performance was the steeplechase yet is slightly lower at 84.07. 
    Hoping for 75% at least but the main thing is I am running! Just back from an hour with my 78 year old neighbour. Good chat, including about his mile race last week. Very modest but when prompted he tells me he is second in the rankings, and not many over 75s run mile races on the track etc.
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • mussesseinmussessein ✭✭✭
    I suppose with steeplechase the WAVA is based on having perfect handling of the jumps etc. So when compared with age grading on pure running events it probably seems a little harsh? In any case, those are some consistent PBs!
  • mussesseinmussessein ✭✭✭
    7 on Monday, 18km progressive over hills Tuesday, 10km easy wednesday, 17km thursday.

    For that run on Thurs I included a session alternating between 1 and 2km: 1ks at 10km effort with 90s jog, 2ks at a hard threshold effort with 3 mins jog. It came out 3:50, 8:12, 3:54, 8:11, 3:47. I found it hard to dial in on the 1ks - the first one felt awful and a real shock to the system. The second felt quite comfortable, but between 500m-750m I realised that I'd lost concentration and I'd let it slip. The last one wasn't too uncomfortable, but I also think I would have struggled to pick up the pace any further. Next time I do this I may drop the intensity very slightly and finish with another 2km, which would be quite a meaty session for me.


    Grateful for cooler temps this weekend, 11km yesterday. Had planned on doing 30km today, but as my watch buzzed for 31km, and I was still not quite home, I tagged on a little dog leg to take it up to 32km. I was still feeling strong at that point, and probably could have done another 5km if I had to, nice to get to 20 miles at this stage with 3 months still to go. Takes the pressure off, as there are definitely times this summer when I will struggle to fit in a long run every week. 

    95km for the week, legs feeling good, but have definitely noticed feeling a bit more fatigued (normally more so on rest/easy days).
  • alehousealehouse ✭✭✭
    Very decent week, Muss, not least today. I would try to do something similar to today every two to three weeks.

    Have had an adductor niggle this week so things have been very gentle. Just as I was thinking things were picking up. Don't know if it was a reaction to some quicker running. Hopefully just one of those things that come and go. Will be testing it on a longer run tomorrow.

    Managed to 100 miles for June on the 30th. June had two cutbacks due to the shoulder procedure.
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Alehouse, hope adductor issue is OK now? 

    Sounds like you had a great week last week, Muss. I'm also welcoming cooler temps! 

    I've been getting on with things however had a reality check Monday night at the 10k. Nice course and event and stacked with decent runners given its size. However it was pretty breezy and that wind was straight at us in mile 2, also being the only drag uphill. 

    Went out with ambition and a 5.44 mile but just felt flat and like it was too much. Then mile 2 being as described I just lost my head and threw in the towel. Possibly a bit of 'parkrun syndrome' knowing I have another in 16 days so why suffer. Decided to save myself for another day and run it in at 6mm. I think had I known the course I might have dug in as miles 3 and 4 were gently downhill and the remainder were flat with bits of downhill also. 

    Came in 37.11 and managed a 3s negative split. That got me about 37th in a field of circa 300 runners. One positive was my hr stats showed I was a good bit off 10k race effort so I haven't suddenly become shit two weeks after a parkrun pb. 

    8m easy yesterday and 12 today, all much more pleasant in cool temps. 
  • alehousealehouse ✭✭✭
    Hope everyone is ok!

    All reasonable here! Managed just over 100 miles in July, and August has started off fairly well. Managing niggles all the time though! Partly age, and partly what middle to long distance runners invariably do!

    Managed a parkrun mid July: 24:25 on a course that is worth around a minute compared to flat tarmac. Just over 71%. Was going to do a quicker course tomorrow before going to cricket; the forecast is for 100% heavy rain with strong winds. Both parkrun and cricket plans won't happen, I suspect!
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    I really don't think you'll be watching any cricket today, Alehouse! 

    July proved an ok month. County 10k champs mid way where I got AG bronze in 36.42. Since that race training has really ramped up with 68m last week and 70 this week. Starting to feel fit now as well. 

    Did a classic 10m tempo yesterday at 160bpm/mara pace. Came in 6.11mm for 159bpm, running second half about 40s quicker. Same Friday last year I ran 6.17mm for 161bpm in similar conditions so bodes well as I also have 2 weeks longer to prepare. 

    Got a soaking at parkrun this morning and even wore long sleeved top. Ran nice and progressive from bottom end to top end mara pace zone in 19.11. 

    20m in morning. 
  • Sounds like things are going well DT!

    Things going a little less well for me - a week after that first promising 20 miler, I did another, much less comfortable one. A recovery week was down on the plan for the week after, and normally I'd feel pretty fresh by Wednesday or Thursday, but a week later, I was still feeling like crap. I had a go at some training, the following week, but was feeling more and more fatigued, with a tough work schedule.

    I took another recovery week, and things weren't really getting any better. Combining mara training with the past few work weeks would have been tough if things were going well, but the idea of trying to get back on the wagon while things were not going that great just seemed like too much pressure, so reluctantly I decided to pull out of my autumn marathon plans and have mainly just been running maintenance volume since. Looking back on it, I really needed to conserve time and energy for my work, and having to fight hard on both fronts was too much for me. 

    Was out in the French Riviera near Nice last week for work, had some hot and hilly, but very pleasant runs there, as well as a few days of rest. Motivation has been high since I've been back, and it's been decent week so far 10, 18, 9km, and not too much fitness has been lost. Perhaps a November half or 10k is on the cards.
  • I hope all going well with everyone! Training hasn't been a disaster by any means, but it's been little more than treading water for me.

    Last week was the first decent week since July: 85km, with a good tempo run, my first run over 20km for a while and a good sub threshold session, which went better than I expected to. Need to find some races to enter while motivation is high.
  • Good to see you, Muss...and good to hear you sounding more positive! I'd get a  parkrun under your belt if nothing else!

    Not at my best here: picked up a virus a week ago so have just been ticking over. Seems to be a lot of it about. Not covid though. The half a dozen people I know who have had it report that they just feel exhausted; I won't disagree. 

    Wonder how Dan and DT are doing.
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Good to see things are moving nicely, muss. Lots of races this time of year. 

    Hope you feel better soon, Alehouse. Funnily enough I've been feeling a bit off sorts since end of last week. Nothing I can put my finger on but like there's something in me. Struggled to run things comfortably that should be. 

    Dr Dan did his first run in 2 months on weekend, I saw on strava.  

    As for me, I ran a 1.17.20 half mid August then went on holiday. Needed that at that time i was feeling a bit negative on my fitness levels. Trained well on hols and came home and cracked on.

    Last week this week before 2 week taper. 3 x 4k today off 1k steady. Hard work in the wind and rain, averaged 6.12mm for 9.3m

    Road relays at Sutton Park Saturday. 

    This month should be my highest ever mileage month. 
  • Has taper started, DT? If so, easy does it. No gains to be made now apart from forking out 500 euros on some new shoes...

    Kept last week easy due to not feeling great, although by Thursday felt fine. Then Saturday morning had both flu and covid jabs...and felt awful Saturday night. Usually my resting HR is 42 to 43; on Saturday night the lowest was 68! This morning,  fortunately, it was back to mid 40s, and felt fine on my 75 minutes off road!
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Alehouse, it looks like a very limited release, 500 pairs. Apparently they are 'single ' marathon shoes, which I find difficult to believe. 

    Yes taper has commenced though I don't really change much from a normal week until after Fridays 10 at mara pace. 

    Rd relays was adequate Saturday, 21.03 for 3.68m so about 5.43mm which on that course is solid I think. 18m yesterday morning after watching the mara then out for the rugby last night. Only had 4 beers but felt ruined today, probably depleted from weekend runs which enhanced the effect of beers. 8m easy today. 

    That must have come sharp, Alehouse, a double dose. Sounds like you're over it now though. 
  • Going well DT! What shoes are these?

    Crystal Palace Parkrun on Saturday, 9th finished in 19:33, a course best for me. It involves going up and down a decent hill twice, I reckon it probably adds around a minute to a flat 5km. Last km in 3:22 (downhill) which according to Strava is my best ever. 

    Backed up with an easy 22km on Sunday. 
  • Excellent that you got a parkrun in, Muss...and a decent performance.  I've run at CP, many years ago: tough hills! Get yourself to one of the flat ones like Dulwich or Burgess! And if you ran 22k on Sunday you didn't run hard enough!

    Not a lot to report apart from a fall on Thursday running into very low sun off road. Bruised knee and a couple of damaged fingers. So no parkrun on Saturday.  Did, though,  manage to get over the 100 miles for September,  just. And 79 minutes today was the longest run since February. 

    Hope you are wrapped up in cotton wool, DT!
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Great performance, muss. Definitely get yourself to a fast one.

    The shoes are the new addidas show worn by 1 and 2 females at Berlin, 1st place shattering the world record. £500 a pair and good for one mara. They've only released 500 pairs. 

    Hope you are feeling OK after the fall. I have found the few times I've fallen as a middle aged man, it is quite traumatic and painful, something I anticipate gets worse with age.

    I'm hiding away this week, early night, no socialising, avoiding the office etc. Had sports massage earlier. 6m plod this morning. 

    I did my yard stick session Friday of 10 at mp/160 bpm. I felt fantastic, progressing it to run a 31.00 first half and a 30.12 2nd half. Barely touched the sides. Average hr 157. For context pre Boston it came out 6.09/159bpm and Berlin 6.17/159 for 9m. Ultimately Berlin is where my statistical interest lies as Ultimately that is my pb. 

    Weather forecast threatened to upset me however the forecast for Sunday has cooled off a little now. 
  • Nice one, DT! Well done!
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Thanks, Alehouse. That was a really tough last 10k. Sun was out and nowhere to hide and the hills hit hard last 2m. 
  • Not seen any splits, DT, so look forward to the report!
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Dug out a 30s negative split somehow so well executed given the profile of last few miles. 
  • Well done! I'm aware that there is a bit of a sting in the tail, course-wise.
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Not much to report, 15m run this week. Will pick it back up for 2 weeks as NY is 3 weeks today. 
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