The Middle Ground

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  • Curly - can I make an educated guess that you don't have kids judging by you ability to sleep up to 16 hours at a time?image

    Giggles at Moraghan. How do you know it's 37 minutes minimum sleep post lunch? That's very exact!image

    Well run on Sunday BR

    Sleep - about 7 hours for me. I have lost the ability to sleep in on the weekend days too so I am up and about at the same time every day. I have never been a night owl either (apart from when I lived in Italy for a year and survived on a level of sleep I can't begin to comprehend now!) 

    I can't train well in the mornings though, I am better in the evening. Lunchtime is my ideal and I can usually mange that if I juggle enough of my life around. Lochaber marathon starting at 11am suited me.

    Ratzer - I train to time, never to distance (I run quite a bit off road and I prefer to run by feel too so putting a set distance to my training wouldn't work for me - I do record my distances though for info) My coach sets my sessions to time too, even the faster stuff. So, if I want to work on endurance when marathon training my long runs will increase gradually by approx 15 minute increments up to a maximum. Agree that for slower runners the law of diminishing returns must apply. Asking a 12 minute miler to run 22 milesduring marathon training would be counter productive surely?

    Today, 50 minutes easy for me, which was approx 6 miles I think.

  • Curly45Curly45 ✭✭✭

    I limited my marathon lsrs to 3.5 hours...only went over it once for my 24 miler, but this time I am less worried about time on feet because it doesnt seem to make that much difference to me in terms of recovery as I am going so slowly...we will see in bulk mileage weeks though image

    No kids Sue  - I am CFBC image I am also lucky that my work have very kindly allowed me to work 7:30-3:30 on most days so I have lots of time to run in the afternoons! I hope eventually to become freelance and to work about 30 hours a week to have more running time...a few years away yet though!

  • Zion - shame about the marathon, but at least the training won't go to waste if you're planning other races.

    I've never been a daytime sleeper, but have in the last year enjoyed the odd afternoon nap.

    Ratzer - agree with Sue that running by time is better for beginner/slower runners.  However, I have to admit to always going for miles or km on the treadmill, but that's me!

  • I'm another who runs for time rather than distance as the literature I read when I first started trying to improve running advocated building up to an hour a day. Have stuck to time since returning to running.

    I definitely run better in the morning and hate evening races, always feel awful. Have tried various fuelling strategies but always get stitch.

  • I enjoy running in the morning and think it's the best time for me, although that's when I've been able to wake up naturally rather than forced awake by the alarm!  Oh and running at 6am is not fun when it's dark and cold, so it's definitely something I only do when marathon training.  Late afternoon and evening runs never feel quite the same, most probably due to work in the day and maybe a bit of dehydration.  As much as I try to drink at work, I still always fall short of what I should be drinking.  If I were in one classroom or office it would be easier, but because I move around it's not.

    Eating for evening races can be a difficult, Zion.  My experience is it's best to have a main meal at lunch time and then light meal about 3 hours before the race. 

  • Curly45Curly45 ✭✭✭

    I find I run better in the mornings, but I prefer to train in the afternoon - then on race day I get that extra morning boost as well image

    Having a right Rarrr day today  - cant wait to get out there tbh but wont be done anytime soon...

  • Curly45Curly45 ✭✭✭

    So two easy days down this week - not enjoying it all so far - very stiff which is likely from the cumulative speedwork over the last 5 weeks.

    Going to attempt a little tempo at MP pace tonight, but I'm wondering if there's anything I can do to help ease out the stiffness (calves especially), its not hurting at all I just feel like I weigh about 2 stone more than usual while running and not my bouncy light self...

  • Curly45 I find hot baths work for me. I know a lot of people swear by ice baths but having done both I will now always go for a soak in a hot bath followed by stretching. Really believe this has helped me to remain injury free while building up my miles quite quickly. I hate that heavy legged feeling.

    Hilly a morning run to me is about 10 o'clockimage Total admiration for people running during the dark winter mornings.

    Off to do a test run later to see if its worth doing a half marathon at the weekend. Thing is with tapering and being ill I've sort of lost momentum and mojo. If only the weather would warm up it might make running seem more appealing.

  • Curly45Curly45 ✭✭✭
    I do like my baths Zion but havent had one yet this week - mmmm soak in the tub sounds just the order of the day I think!!
  • It's strange really that like most I'm saying I wish the weather would warm up, yet i don't run weill in hot and humid conditions, so really I should be enjoying the the cooler weather as it's better for running.  But it's been such a cold drab winter that I'm fed up with the chill now!

    I had a good track session last night and pleased as my legs were feeling tired after work and at times the negative thoughts were trying to talk me out of doing it.  Once I got going though something kicked in to make me finish the session.  Sometimes it's mind over matter I guess.

  • I had another disappointing run this morning. I was averaging 8:50/mile pace. With 2 miles to go I decided to do a mile at 10k effort to see where I'm standing before next week's race. Bearing in mind I haven't done any fast stuff in 2 months, and I had already done 6.5 miles before I sped up, I did a 6:41 mile, which isn't so bad I guess.
  • I enjoyed my run last night too even though I felt cold (I still wouldn't have worn more than my shorts/t-shirt). I do run better in cooler weather. If it stays like this for the weekend I'll probably be happy as I have a half at the weekend. Next weekend would be good too for the marathon, although anything less than the 25 degrees or whatever it was for last year's Edinburgh marathon will be a bonus!

    I've got a short HMP practice session this afternoon (3x1m) and a sports massage tomorrow. Have you ever had one Curly? I find they help to just smooth everything out every now and then. I do agree a nice warm bath works better for me too.

  • Theres no pleasing some people - too hot, too cold, too dark .............. image

    Theres nothing like a good track session when you're not really feeling up for it to get you right back on track (excuse the pun) is there Hilly?

    Are you doing the other two John Carr 5Ks? If so, it will be interesting to see how your times compare from the first to the third.....

  • Curly45Curly45 ✭✭✭

    No not had one Kaysdee - its tres expensive around here image although just going to look on the council website to see if they do anything...

    Sounds like a good session to me Duck - what was disappointing about it?

    I like track days like that Hilly really makes you feel there's progress going on image

  • PRF - no point in doing the same course 3 times in 16 days. It would not tell us anything new. 1st race was YVAA and club champs so good to do. It would be better to spread them out monthly like Spencers Dash
  • It was more the pace before I got faster that was the problem. I've had a few slow runs the past couple of days. Although I suppose aerobic paces are much slower than race paces.
  • BR - Fair point, they are a bit close together. Might as well use parkruns for 5K workouts. That first one was useful for pot hunting purposes though!!!

    Are you two planning on doing any Spencer Arms this year then? It is on your doorstep after all........

    Kaysdee - I'd never had a sports massage until after the recent Blackpool Marathon, it was a revelation. Would highly recommend now!

    TD - Why was it a disappointing run? What did you set out to achieve?

  • Duck, I've found I tend to have a cycle of running well, then feeling a bit rubbish and then see another set of improvements. You say you've been base training around 2 months? Maybe your body is just setting up for another round of physiological changes?

    PRF, totally. Runners are a picky lot. I think I've only had "the perfect day" for weather once - a particularly feel good race where I knocked 7 mins off my half time. Otherwise, it doesn't ever suit me image.

    Curly, have you tried local colleges? A lot of them tend to have sports clinics. It's not totally the same as they're mostly students, but when I've used it in the past it's £5 a session here. I pay £30 an hour for my "real" one.

  • It was just a geneal aerobic run - I'm in base training at the moment. But I've got a 10k race next week so I decided to see where I was at.

    I was just slow before I picked it up. I'm normally doing 8:30/mile roughly but was doing 8:50/mile today, the same as on Sunday. I don't seem to be making much - if any - progress aerobically. 

  • PRF, I'm only a recent convert too. I don't get them very often, but tend to schedule them in an important race week. I'll stick around now for events that offer them post race, it is a strange almost perverse feeling of pain and pleasure image.
  • MoraghanMoraghan ✭✭✭

    Don't expect linear progress TD.  Sometimes you'll get worse, sometimes stay at the same level and then often leap forward all of sudden.  As we said before if you get smooth linear progress with no hiccups no doubt you can be training harder.

    I only mustered up 3m @ 8:30 pace yesterday morning.

  • Curly45Curly45 ✭✭✭

    Hahahaha I've been doing my easy runs at 10 mins/mile pace image

    Hmmm cant find any useful massage places near me that arent £50 or in Soho image

    Edit: wow this dude looks amazing:
    http://www.robertofitness.com/index.html

  • Moraghan wrote (see)
     

    Don't expect linear progress TD.  Sometimes you'll get worse, sometimes stay at the same level and then often leap forward all of sudden.  As we said before if you get smooth linear progress with no hiccups no doubt you can be training harder.

    You're right. I just like to see return from the training, that's all.

    If I can do about 41:30 (which is 6:41/mile pace) just off of BT then I should hopefully improve quite well just by adding the harder stuff in again.
  • Hilly absolutely agree running is as much about the mind as the body. Unfortunately my mind is saying its had enough of the winter, especially the wind! Glad you were rewarded with a satisfying sessionimage

    Agree with others massage is fab, but worth shopping around. Just like everything there are some good and some not so good. Have also found there can be quite a big difference in prices too.

  • RatzerRatzer ✭✭✭
    The Duckinator wrote (see)
    Moraghan wrote (see)

    Don't expect linear progress TD.  Sometimes you'll get worse, sometimes stay at the same level and then often leap forward all of sudden.  As we said before if you get smooth linear progress with no hiccups no doubt you can be training harder.

    You're right. I just like to see return from the training, that's all.


    I keep a log to keep my spirits high.  The point being I can see that a bad day is just a blip or two in overall progress.

    http://www.runnersworld.co.uk/members/images/343542/Gallery/graph_of_log.JPG

    See all those blips!!image  The scale on the left is not important - the fact that the points are generally rising is!  Oh, the bottom scale is the date.  See if you can spot the lead up to Christmas...

  • PRF - I have a few other 5ks lined up to do, plus a 3000m and a few 10ks in the next few months so plenty to gauge how the training has helped.

    Very tired today, been on my feet for 4 hours and rather demanding classes - poor meimage  Hot bath I think later, oh and talking of massage I've not had a professional one for about a year now, so might be worth treating myself soon.  BR and I often do each others legs though and that seems to keep niggles at bay.  We also have the 'Stick', which is a handy gadget.  Might be worth looking into, Curly.  Like any gadget though it does have to be used to benefit from it and I have to admit to not being the best at following through using these things when legs are ok.  Not the point I'm sure as it would be much better to use them to prevent injury rather than waiting until there is an injury before using something.

  • Curly45Curly45 ✭✭✭

    Bloody track was shut AGAIN today - which is fine because they've given me a schedule for the summer, except there's something on every day next week and it only says AM/PM/EVE so I dont even know where I might be able to fit a session in between - useless! 

    Does anyone else have this problem or is it just Battersea track...

    Anyway did 4 miles tempo in the park again and it was too fast again...had a bath now anyway and feel a bit better but defo need a massage this weekend. 


  • /members/images/242368/Gallery/Untitled.jpg

    This is my sport tracks graph of my average weekly pace since I started BT. As you can see, I haven't done much yet..

    But going by feel today, it felt pretty good. I liken today's effort like changing into a high gear on a bike too soon - it took me a while to get going, but by the end of the mile I felt like I could have done another one without too much trouble. Obviously I'm gonna be very sluggish and slow after BT'ing it for so long, but with hindsight I reckon it's promising. 

  • Curly - not had that problem with the track here, although there is sometimes 5 a-side football going on in the centre, which doesn't really stop people on the track, but can be annoying when the odd ball goes flying past. I think clubs and sometimes schools tend to use tracks a lot during summer. 
  • MoraghanMoraghan ✭✭✭
    The track I train on is a nightmare in summer.  I used to phone them in advance and was always told it was being used.  Now I just turn up and use it anyway - sometimes when I'm sure they would have turned my away if I'd phoned.
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