The Middle Ground

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  • Hope all goes well kaysdee. Enjoyimage
  • Hope it goes well,Kaysdee.  I think a case of going very steady to start!  Try and keep your body temperature low for as long as possible, easier said than done I know.

    Curly and PFR - did the Hull parkrun yesterday as part of my training.  It's a lovely park, one of the best I think for the parkruns!  Will definitely go back and do it again sometime.  Hope you had a good time in Brussels.

  • Well, I didn't quite do a 41 - ran a 42:11 which is probably the best I could have done. I'm taking a number of positives from it though:

    /members/images/242368/Gallery/Running_Aberdeen_23-05-2010__Pace.jpg



    This is my sporttracks pace graph. See how consistent my mile splits were until mile 4? That's when I started to feel it and my pace dropped. Interestingly, I didn't feel a burn from the lactic acid as such, it was just I felt like I had less energy than before and subsequently I couldn't speed up at all. Evidently this is what you get for 8 weeks without race-effort training. I felt strong, but slow - probably the same after having run a marathon.

    What I'm seeing from this is that I need more stamina - having not done any LT training for a good while I guess this was evident. My breathing was good throughout and I never felt like I was struggling for air at all.

    Other positives - i did a good warmup of 1.7 miles, with easy running, threshold/race pace running and strides. The first few miles felt really good because of that.

    So now I'm gonna start the high-intensity stuff again. i have another 10k race in 3 weeks which I'm just gonna use as a LT session, and a 5k  in 2 weeks to start some VO2 max.

    So overall, encrouging and definatly some aspects to work on from this race. Hell, I got a PB afterall, so I can't be to disappointed.

      
     
  • Also forgot to mention - a 42:11 10k time works out as a 1:33:08 HM time, 37 seconds quicker than my PB. So I've run an equivalent time off of BT and no specific race work - BT is definitely working for me image
  • Freaking horrible!! Hilly, it's hard to be so conservative at the start here as it's such a downhill for 6 miles.

    But, survived! Used a lot of the water over my head and face/arms.

    3.46 dead by my watch, possibly 3.45.59 as I didn't stop it immediately, but it's a few mins faster than I should have done it as was supposed to be training pace. The only thing that hurts (aches) is my feet! Not like blisters, etc, but like when you've been out all day. 1.75m walk from the hotel to the start, marathon, over 2 miles to bags/bus, 1.75 back to the hotel....

    Going to bed!

  • Curly45Curly45 ✭✭✭

    Great race Duck!! Especially in this heat (which might also be to blame for the loss of pace in the legs at mile 4)

    Nice run yesterday Hilly - I see BR didnt run - was he just cheering you on image

    Naughty Kaysdee! Great run though and pull that time out when not trying to race is excellent image Hope your blisters get better soon.

    Did 12.5 miles today but a bit tired from too much sun/walking around/cherry beers yesterday so stopped because PRF had some chaffing to walk back (3 miles or so)...its ruddy out there I have to say...

  • Good racing Duck and Kaysdee.  It might only be your feet aching today, Kaysdee, but I bet the legs will be aching tomorrow!  A nice soak in the bath I sayimage

    BR wasn't able to run, Curly.   He wasn't feeling too great, so decided to enjoy the sunshine insteadimage

    15 here today on the trail, so was able to enjoy some shade from the trees.

  • TD - Nice work with the 42:11, a nice line in the sand that you know you will improve upon even more when conditions are more favourable.

    Hilly - Glad you enjoyed Hull, there arent many parkruns where you get to see quite such a wide variety animal life on each lap. In fact I think it is probably the only parkrun with wallabies! And 20:05 was a pretty decent time being part of a longer training session as you finished as the filling in the Morley girls sandwich!

    Cant wait to get back there next week!

    Kaysdee - 3:46 as a training run! image The only downside to that is we are now assuming that that is an easy run for you and for the A race we'll be expecting, ooo lets see, 3:15? image

    Just short of 15 miles in Battersea this afternoon in something around 27c. Around 7:45 pace which was the right sort of pace and the effort felt right but the main effect of the temp was that the HR was about 20 bpm higher than usual, although that could be partly due to spending a good few hours in the hot sunshine in Brussels yesterday watching some crazy food festival involving the whole city!  image

  • Curly45Curly45 ✭✭✭

    Hope BR feels better soon Hilly - did you give him your cold?!

    This is what we watched yesterday:
     http://www.zinneke.org/

    A once every 2 year festival parade - the theme this time was 'the table' and there was a giant inflatable intestine being carried around the streets (narrow!), along with puppets hanging out of windows around the city - very odd but loads of fun to just happen across image

  • Curly - no just stressed out after dealing with needy, attention seeking staff all week.  Bad week's training and diet.  Hope to get my head and legs together for a 10k in Dorset next Saturday.
  • Curly45Curly45 ✭✭✭

    Dorset - wow thats a long way to travel image

    I cant wait for the long weekend - except I have to go to Madrid next week for work...not much in the way of running routes but the conference organises a 5k as part of the social programme!

    Last year it was free though and this time €19 - so havent registered as yet, may pop along on the day depending on how busy we expect to be on the stand (since i will have to back at the conference venue by 9). Anyway I still think its a great idea to organise these events because it gets people out and about image

  • Sounds like a nice working weekend, Curly.

    We regularly go to Dorset and yup most probably takes you less time to get to Madridimage

    We plan on doing the 10k just because we're in the area and it's run by a club we once belonged to and it's on a Sat evening, so a nice social time too.  Never a good idea racing after 6-8 hours driving, but won't really be looking for a decent time.

  • Curly45Curly45 ✭✭✭

    I love Dorset image

    I dont go till Tuesday next week so got the bank holiday in Leeds - but yes its about a 2 hour flight, plus 30 mins to get to LCA from my house image

    Hoping to have a good one at Hull this weekend - its the last weekend of crispy challenge and I have 18 seconds to get to my target...I dont think I'll go sub 22, but maybe I can run 22:10 and be within 10 seconds...

  • Mr VMr V ✭✭✭
    Glad to see everyone is already thinking of the weekend despite the fact this week has hardly kicked off yet! I've got a 5 day weekend coming up so I can't wait image
  • RatzerRatzer ✭✭✭

    Fell running yesterday.

    And I've got a great gash under my knee because of it!

    Got a new question.  Is it wise to mix peaks with have-to-walk-em climbs into the LSR?  Today I feel like I spent yesterday playing 5-a-side footie, a squash match, and then done a quick tri...

  • Well done Duck on the pbimage

    kaysdee wow, good going in yesterdays conditions. Hope you recover well.

    Steady 7 for me on Saturday and a couple of hours round undulating country lanes yesterday. Nice to be back on track. Trying to decide between a half on 6 June or a 10 mile race the following weekend. Have decided to focus on Mablethorpe marathon this year so only going to do a few races between now and then so want them to be good ones..... if only it was that simpleimage

  • Curly45Curly45 ✭✭✭

    Zion - I'd do the 10 (but then it is my favourite distance)...I guess it depends what you want really - if you want a pacing point for a full then a half is probably better, or if you just want a fitness judge prior to starting marathon training then 10 miles will do the job nicely image

    Cant help you on making it good though image

  • Curly45Curly45 ✭✭✭
    Razter - I dont really do fell running, but I try not to pick hills that cant be run because I find if I have to walk any of my LSRs it just destroys my legs for the rest...I know others like their walking breaks though so I think this might just be a personal thing.
  • I don't think it hurts to mix walks in with the LSR if the hills are fell ones and really too steep to run.   I've done a few fell races, not the severe ones, but still the hills at points were too steep to run all the way.  I don't really like runs like that though as I have to admit to wanting to keep an even pace going as much as I can.  Although, in my early running days I used to head off road for 3-3.5 hours on a Sunday on terrain that could be run on (mostly coastal paths around Dorset) and used to love that as well as believing it really improved my endurance.
  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭
    The Duckinator wrote (see)

    Well, I didn't quite do a 41 - ran a 42:11 which is probably the best I could have done. I'm taking a number of positives from it though:

    http://www.runnersworld.co.uk/members/images/242368/Gallery/Running_Aberdeen_23-05-2010__Pace.jpg



    This is my sporttracks pace graph. See how consistent my mile splits were until mile 4? That's when I started to feel it and my pace dropped. Interestingly, I didn't feel a burn from the lactic acid as such, it was just I felt like I had less energy than before and subsequently I couldn't speed up at all. Evidently this is what you get for 8 weeks without race-effort training. I felt strong, but slow - probably the same after having run a marathon.

    What I'm seeing from this is that I need more stamina - having not done any LT training for a good while I guess this was evident. My breathing was good throughout and I never felt like I was struggling for air at all.

    Other positives - i did a good warmup of 1.7 miles, with easy running, threshold/race pace running and strides. The first few miles felt really good because of that.

    So now I'm gonna start the high-intensity stuff again. i have another 10k race in 3 weeks which I'm just gonna use as a LT session, and a 5k  in 2 weeks to start some VO2 max.

    So overall, encrouging and definatly some aspects to work on from this race. Hell, I got a PB afterall, so I can't be to disappointed.

     


    Well done Duck. imageimage

    Intesting that your pace seemed to drop off after 4 miles. I can't read the text on the graph ... how dramatic was the drop-off? Did you just set off too fast? I ran my 42:34 PB in March ... like yours, it was straight off BT and without any hard sessions or taper. I found maintaining a steady pace was okay but couldn't really access the higher heart rates due to the lack of quality sessions, so my race was at only 85% wHR. The better my base gets, the harder it is to run above 85% wHR ... hopefully those HRs will become more accessible with more quality sessions.

  • My mile splits were as follows:

    6:39

    6:36

    6:38

    6:40

    6:57

    7:09 (there was a hill involved here)

    5:52 (last 0.2 miles)

    The thing is, I don't think I did set off too fast. I felt fantastic the first 4 miles - almost as good as I did in my HM in March at 4 miles. Then it was just like someone flicked a switch marked "lactic acid" and all of a sudden I was cooking in the stuff. I felt so good, in fact, I was worried I was going too slow...

    Then again, this may all be down to experience. I haven't run many races in my running career yet so I haven't managed to nail the "feel" of a race yet.

    I was exactly like you, wHR wise - 85% wHR (90% MHR), with a max of 90% wHR (93% MHR).

  • Curly45 really want an indicator of where I am. The 10 would be the better option really as its closer and a pretty good course apparently. The only thing is I have never raced a10 before and feel I would have nothing to compare it to which makes no difference really as it would still give me a marker, just me ditheringimage. Both can be entered on the day so shall mull it over and see how this weeks training goes.

    7 miles hilly fartlek this morning. Really love this run.

  • Curly45Curly45 ✭✭✭

    Zion - thats fair enough - 10 is a great distance though because it doesnt require the all out effort of a half, but you can really get some pace practice in that you dont really have time for during a 10k image

    Duck - I wonder if Dan is right - that its just because of the lack of quality sessions meaning you aren't used to long distances at pace so you went past LT - once you've added those back in you should be flying! 

  • Curly45 wrote (see)

    Duck - I wonder if Dan is right - that its just because of the lack of quality sessions meaning you aren't used to long distances at pace so you went past LT - once you've added those back in you should be flying! 

    That's my reasoning. I haven't run at anything faster than about 7:55/mile since March, so it was always going to be unpredictable as to what would happen.

    There's a beachfront 10k in 3 weeks which I'm going to run just as a good quality LT session. If I get a PB in it you are all allowed to shout at me. 

    I need to improve by 2:12 in 82 days... with quality sessions, it's doable.

  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭

    It could simply be that you were a tad over ambitious. Perhaps you could have maintained a 6:45-6:47 pace and got a faster time whereas a sub 6:40 pace was just over the limit? It's hard to judge your ideal race pace when you've only been running slowly. I often do a 2 x 1 mile interval session just about flat out on the canal towpath on the Tuesday before a Sunday race ... 25 s per mile extra is about 10K race pace for me.

  • Dr.Dan wrote (see)

    It could simply be that you were a tad over ambitious. Perhaps you could have maintained a 6:45-6:47 pace and got a faster time whereas a sub 6:40 pace was just over the limit? It's hard to judge your ideal race pace when you've only been running slowly. I often do a 2 x 1 mile interval session just about flat out on the canal towpath on the Tuesday before a Sunday race ... 25 s per mile extra is about 10K race pace for me.

    You're probably right. In the end it all comes down to experience - this is the first time I've base trained before so I'm going to get things wrong. It's probably best to err on the side of caution and know you're slightly faster than you think, than the opposite.

    Ho hum. We learn from our mistakes. 

  • TD - I'm still getting things wrong 12 years after my first 10kimage

    Glad it's an easy run day today, work has been heavy again. 

  • Hilly lots of mile in your legs then!! Have you had a break during those years or ran pretty consistently? This is a curiosity question as I have read on several occasions that you can only expect to improve for 10 years when training optimally. What is your experience of this? I know a lot of people put an age barrier on improvements but I know several ladies who have come to running later in life and run times I dream of, so I tend not to think like that and keep telling myself I've got 10 years to reach my best!!

  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭

    Duck ... yep, the good news is that you're actually closer than 2:12 from your target.image

  • Age is not a barrier - running years are.  I've been at it for 10 years now and to be honest 4 or 5 days per week now are on heavy legs and I only seem to be able to do 70% of what I used to be able to do.  So I'm on a different stage of running - doing more `fun' events and team stuff, relays etc.
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