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The Middle Ground
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Zion, me too. I didn't go to bed until after 12.30, I'm very surprised I didn't just switch my alarm off this morning - not that I needed one, my kids don't understand the concept of weekends.
Scheduled for 4 miles easy today so decided to do a slow parkrun and then I don't have to worry about it later. On my parkrun's facebook page, apparently there are goody bags today with this run free thing? No idea what it's all about.
kaysdee I did switch off my alarm and had every intention of going back to sleep but my mind wouldn't let me! Glad I went though as had a good run even though very windy on the run out but sooo still on the way in, was wishing for a breeze. Nice selection of cakes and lucozade goodies at the end plus a nice cup of tea so was worth getting out of bed. Had a little giggle to myself as lucozade sports bar had a best before date May 10, good job my daughter demolished it as soon as I came through the door
We also got a parkrun in this morning at Hull.
I was trying to get a first 17:xx clocking on the way back up to fitness. It didnt actually come off but was still the fastest of the 65 parkruns completed so far at 18:10 (5:50/mile) for 3rd place.
I'm actually pretty pleased with that because of the way it felt. The km split times were:
3:29,3:38,3:40,3:47,3:36
So the first half was covered at about 17:45 pace and felt pretty comfortable, so I'm reckoning the lack of pace in the 2nd half was just a bit of heaviness still lingering from track sessions.
It still feels on track for a 16:xx in about 6 weeks time so I'm quite happy with that.
Curly was just a few seconds off her PB so is content with that considering the one or two loitering gremlin issues mentioned yesterday - she's clearly not in too bad nick!
Also on the parkrun front, its nice to see Paula Fudge appearing at the Frimley event in the last 3 weeks clocking 21:19,21:22 and 21:03...... not bad for the woman who was actually the first official world record holder at 5,000m!!!
I ran 3m at 8:15 pace this morning. I was like lightning.
This is what happens when your first 400m rep (out of 4) the night before is done in 56.35 and you follow up with a weights session.
Mind boggling speed - reps at 3:45/mile pace!!!!
I think I'd self combust at that pace - in fact I wouldnt complete the lap cos my cornering is rubbish, I'd end up flying off at a tangent into the stands by virtue of that centripetal force thingy.
Centripetal force is that thingy where it's like you've got the power of one hundred legs, isn't it?
No special lab session for me today whilst sonnyboy was kicking a football about. H&S rules mean you have to have a full, organised, booked induction just to use a treadmill. So I got out of the hotel later and managed to find a five mile loop around somewhere I've never been in my life. Only did it once because I didn't have much time. Managed better than 8:15 pace average, but cocked up the 3 miles that were supposed to be MP because I didn't know where I was going so I kept stopping and turning back or left or right or "is it this way?". Tomorrow's going to be similar because I'll be standing on a touchline cheering all day when I'm not driving.
Living sometimes gets in the way of having a life. But I can't begrudge sonnyboy his fun. Yesterday he played and won against Everton development, today he was coached at Man City's academy and had a tour of Eastlands, tomorrow he's playing a tournament against teams from Liverpool, Suffolk and North Wales. Mind you, five forty-five minute games is going to be hell of a job for a twelve year old! I reckon that's way tougher than my LSR (delayed to Monday...).
I hope everyone enjoyed their weekend competitiveness! Nice times, prf, and one day I'll come down and try 10k's. (Always loved the HMs, don't know why?) Happiness, though, is knowing that your cousin's likkle lad can compete with Moraghan over 400m (but don't worry, M, he can't touch you at 800 yet). It's enjoyable to live vicariously through your extended family. Cousin's older child, likkle lass, was recently invited to join GB Junior 100m Relay squad. Any potential sponsors looking for London tickets in a couple of years can get in touch...
Damn, just read back and that looks bad in a boastful way. I apologise if you think it is, but it ain't, it's pride, and I hope they all succeed and live out their dreams!
Now, "I wish I'd started/kept running when I was much younger..." Discuss...
Nothing wrong in being proud of your family!
I used to be very active in school, hockey, netball, athletics, cross country, some of it at county level - which doesn't actually mean I was any good at anything, just part of the school team - although I am proud of coming first in all of my secondary years at 200m, 800m and cross country in sports day
.
I then left home at a fairly young age (16) and was "too busy" at university and working - was a council flat, not student accommodation - and dropped everything. Life changed, got a job, a house, husband, kids and decided I needed to do something for ME and took up running in Jan 08. Having done nothing between school and then, it was an adjustment to an active lifestyle. I was 31, my kids at the time were 11mo, 2 and 4, but the point of all the history is truthfully, I don't think I would have had the same appreciation for it if I'd continued running since school because it was that much of an epiphany for me at that particular stage in my life.
I kind of took up running for sanity more than anything. My eldest has Down's and other disabilities and my youngest has also had some issues. Life has been stressful. It wasn't until I started running that I realised just how much I needed it. Believe it or not, I hated it when I first began (guess that's what 14 odd years of inactivity does to you!), but very quickly fell in love with it.
In some respects, it can be argued that I wish I'd started when I was younger. Who knows what I might have been capable of with a bit more youth on my side, but on the other hand, all the evidence points to age not really being that much of an issue and there are some damned fast "older" people out there. I have to watch my terminology there, my husband is 15 years older than me so apparently that's his excuse for me being faster than him, but I tell him that doesn't count and he just needs to try harder
(he's a very casual runner, just does the odd 10k now and then).
I hope to be running... forever really. A guy in my club is 79 and still knocking out a 26min 5K. I can just imagine at my funeral, it'll be all about my races
.
Iv'e posted the following on the DTT but would be interested in the views of any of the thoughtful runners on this thread.
This morning will be a track session for me as usual. However next Sunday will be very different. I'm also on Fetch and one or two people there have suggested I give 'Pose' a try. I'm not injured but they seem to think it will help me run faster and avoid injury...
I'm sceptical to an extent. Not because I don't think most of the principles are sound, but I do wonder if it has anything new to offer that I'm not already aware of and working on. However I have an open mind and it will satisfy my curiosity at the very least. At best I will come away with some hints and tunings - or perhaps even a Eureka moment - that will help me run faster.
Anyone have any views on Pose - and Chi running/ Stride Mechanics etc for that matter? Are they just marketing opportunities?
Lots of what I read and observe about them seems like basic bio-mechanical sense - with elements taken from Pilates and the like, dance and even classic sprint training...
but there's a few elements I'm really not convinced about.
I'm not an expert on what pose entails but I'm aware of it. A lot of the stuff is basic good technique - landing under your centre of mass, leaning forward, light feet, good cadence etc. Some of it is very dubious - that everyone can and should land on the balls of their feet. Some of it appears to be bollocks - using gravity as a source of forward propulsion.
I bet you already do the good bits. Maybe you'll get some useful drills out of it though. Please report back.
Which fetch thread was it?
Ratzer - junior GB squad is impressive! I probably don't want to know how old the 400m cousin is!
I don't want to get started on "if I started when I was younger" as it's depressing and I would be doing exactly what I criticise others for doing!
Frustratingly, I wish I had started earlier....
When my mum started off running again, I did sometimes go with her on a 3 mile trail run near to where we used to live. I'd do it 3 or 4 times a week but just got bored after a while and gave up. If I'd had the motivation I had now, who knows what level I could be at now...
Anyway, 5 miles yesterday and 15.5 today (2 hours 20 exactly) in the pissing rain and driving wind.
Evening all...
Firstly, nice to get back from Dorset with a normal drive, rather than the 8 horrid hours on Friday evening! My race did not go good on Saturday night. In fact I DNF as I felt horrid having only had 4 hours sleep the night before. Anyhow to cut a long story short, I decided to do a race on the way home today that BR was aware of. It was very hilly, which I didn't know until I got there, but I didn't care I just wanted to run strong and finish the race. I was 3rd woman in 41 minutes, which isn't too bad, as most people reckoned on 2 minutes for the hills and the windy conditions. So a nice glass trophy and £25 sports vouchers that I bought 2 nice running tops with.
On the subject of talented kids I can relate to that being the mother of a son who has been a professional sportsman, now semi-pro. As a young boy he seemed to be good at any sport he put his mind/hand to, but decided on football as that was his love. Also, today I was proud to hear my step-daughter had won 9, yes NINE medals/trophies for dancing and the other step-daughter also won a handfull. Very talented girls!
PFR - well done on the 3rd at Hull.
Moraghan - you seem to be running well!
What a depressing bunch you lot are!
Just suppose that you had started at the ideal age and trained like a demon to squeeze every ounce of your potential out of your pores. That would be great but it would mean that your best days were behind you.
By being a bit tardy getting round to proper training it means you can still have your best days ahead of you. Result.!
Thanks Hilly! They certainly have a keen photographer at Hull, 288 pics for a field of about 80. Last week there were even pics of BR.... and he didnt even run!
That was a great performance today if it was worth somewhere between 39-40 minutes on a flat course. The finishing position seems to suggest it was as good as that. Always nice to win a prize that is worth more than the entry fee too!
Sub 19:00 5K around the corner?
A free massage today too!
Where are the pictures, PRF? We've looked for them but they only seem to have the first 2 events on the website.
They cant link them via the normal channel, Hilly.
Go to news and have a look at the race reports, there's a link in each report to the relevant photos.
Found them, thanks PRF. I certainly need a few pounds lost looking at those pics! I don't overeat, but am finding it hard to keep weight down for the first time in my life. Anyone know magic cures (not starvation diets) for weight loss?
I know it comes off with high mileage, but my mileage isn't as high as it was at present. Also, is there something in speedwork burning glycogen rather than fat, so doing faster sessions isn't helping me to lose the fat?
Seriously, could it be my age? I'm 46, so do I have to change my diet and cut out more than I did a few years back when it was easy to drop pounds - something to do with metabalism slowing up? The option which I think could be a serious consideration is hormones and for that one I have no idea how to change things!
Now thats a subject that I think confuses a lot of people.
I'm not sure that theres much of an age factor otherwise every OAP would be overweight which doesnt seem to be the case.
My own weight is now down from 15stone, 18 months ago to about 10st 6lbs now. The loss is now about 1lb a week but I refuse to be hungry - if the appetite wants something it gets it!
The main thing is not eating red meat until it is craved, which is usually about once a week. And eating fruit, fruit and more fruit (especially grapes!) when hungry during the day. Standard breakfast is a big bowl of muesli which because of the slow release carbs often mean that no lunch is needed.
I think its very easy to underestimate how many calories are in some of the crap thats around - the motorway service station test is a good one. How many times do you see someone come out of a service station with a sandwich, pasty and a Mars bar? Thats pretty much 1500 calories in one go........
Well done on your race Hilly. It was really windy here and definitely wouldn't have wanted to race yesterday.
A couple of hours around the countryside yesterday but cheated a bit as went the opposite way, which is more downhill than up. Just couldn't face the wind and uphills.
As to wishing I'd started running earlier no point thinking about it as I live by the never look back way.
Have to disagree with you about the age factor prf. I know several ladies who have hit menopause and have weight problems. Quite interestingly for me, I do remember when I first started to up my mileage, not slow down the pace and use sports drinks I put on weight. Slowed down the pace cut out the drinks and I lost weight. I can now run two or three hours and not feel any increase in hunger but doing a faster paced session, like a parkrun, and I am starving within an hour, and that is with having a slimfast straightaway. I'm the same age as you Hilly, well will be tomorrow, and would say that although you don't overeat I would look at any little extra that you could live without, glass of wine, bar of chocolate, sports drink (can't help but I have a real aversion to them) but agree with prf always listen to your body, if your body is saying its hungry, eat. Was weighed at the docs for the first time last week for a year and was shocked when he said i was underweight - 49kg- 5ft 6 - do wonder though whether this has contributed to my relatively quick return to past fitness as used to be 53kg. Not consciously tried to loose weight but think with busier lifestyle it has just happened, along with the higher slow mileage.
Hilly - Well run yesterday and on having talented members of your family!
On weight gain, I do think/wonder if age slows your metabolism somewhat. Both my parents are still very slim but I do remember my Mum stating that, when she approached her mid 40's, she found she put on about 3/4 lbs and this just would not shift whatever she did. However, her weight then stabilised at that slightly higher weight for the next 10 or so years. The same thing happened in her mid 50's/early 60's but again she stuck at that for years and years. She is now about 8/9 lbs heavier than her tiny younger frame but still only around a size 10/12 in her 70's. Neither of my parents have ever dieted (Dad is the same weight but has a roundness to his belly not evident in his younger days!!) but neither are massive eaters either (or 'snackers' I do notice)
I wonder though whether, in both my parents case, their mid 40's saw them naturally do a bit less without noticing (not running around after 3 small children so much, walking to school every day etc, just the small things which add up) So a combination.
I have heard Liz say that, if you are looking to lose weight then a short and easy run in the evening, no refueling and then a short easy run pre breakfast can be effective. I think that advice was aimed at runners whose principal goal was weight loss so you might have to ensure this doesn't impact on training at all.
Edit - I think that Zion definitly has a point re the menopause. Maybe it is a combination of factors, as most things are!
On the kids and talent front, my son is a bit like Hilly's in that he is good at pretty much whatever he does (academic or sporting or music) Life is very easy for him, he rarely has to try. Whilst he is very competitive, he hasn't found the one thing that he 'hungers' to be exceptional at and is happy to be a jack of all trades at the moment. I have therefore not pushed him particularly in any direction, it needs to come from him. I think you have to have the talent AND the desire so maybe even had some of us started earlier, we would have been at different stages of our lives and training might have played a less important part anyway?
Actually, thinking about it, my son started guitar last September, having spend 2 years expressing he had no desire to play a musical instrument! Already he has far exceeded the level the others in his group have reached. Some of this is talent but a lot of this is desire, he genuinely loves playing the thing and will practice 5/6 times a day. Last week a new guitar book arrived that his tutor had asked me to order for him and he ran home from school in order to open it and play! I am far more proud of his work ethic and commitment than of his talent at the instrument if that makes sense?
Thanks for replies. I think there is something in what all of you say. Without going into details I had early menopause (30s) but maybe because life was maybe a bit more active or hectic with a younger family then on top of training weight gain did not happen.
I'm still slight and only a size 8 clothes (can squeeze in the odd size 6
) but it's not about the size of my clothes, more to do with how I feel when I run and I have to admit to feeling like lump at times! I just know if I didn't feel so heavy I'd be running much easier.
I do the morning runs without any fuel, but only up to 5 miles. I do eat quite late at night sometimes as that's the window after running, so don't think that's a problem. We've stopped eating at service stations, PRF and will buy or make stuff to take with us. I'm not a big fan of read meat, so that is minimal. What about coffee? I love a couple of mugs of real coffee a day, but surely that's not excessive! I guess it is a bit of slowing of metabolism then, so will have make some changes and see if it helps. Here comes the 10 oranges a day then...
Sue - I think it's important for young people to find out for themselves what they enjoy and want to get better at and the parents just to support and encourage their achievements. It sounds like your son is well supported! My son was so busy as a lad, that at times the support from me was to say maybe you need to have a few rest days!! As you say the desire on top of talent goes a long way, something I think most talented people don't lack. Also, those who aren't particularly talented but have the desire to learn and get better at something can be equally as successful.
Hilly, I'm a bit younger but have also noticed recently that I'm not very happy with my shape. Weight increase is only a pound or two, but it feels like half a stone. There is loads that I could change about my diet though!
PRF - since they started putting calories on packaging, it has definitely made me stop and think. I was in Greggs the other day and a cheese and ham baguette was something like 590 calories! I wouldn't have thought about it before, but I actually didn't buy it because of the calories - am I the only person who thinks in terms of "I'd have to run x miles to justify that"
With regards to weight, I'd approach it in 2 phases.
Daily weigh in upon waking every day, recording your weight. Cut out all the crap you eat: refined flour, cakes, chocolate, take aways, white bread, sweets, carbonated drinks, alcohol, mayo, creamy sauces, added cheese etc. (Although I'd suggest concentrating on the veg rather than fruit).
Maybe that's enough to get you where you want to be. If not, then I'd start considering calorie control and swapping out similar foods based on content, e.g. red meat for skinless chicken breast etc.
I've just started on phase 1 as it's nearly the competition period and I need to lose about 4 lbs.
For the last few pounds it always starts to be a trade off between things you want to eat versus the last few seconds off your time. It's difficult to restrict diet for a long time, that's why I try and taper my weight (I spend most of my year at 11st 8, but look to race at 11st 0 - 2 lbs). If you can look at the weight control as just a 6 - 8 week thing it becomes easier to sacrifice.
It's definitely more difficult for women, and it's definitely more difficult once you reach - say - about 45. Sorry Hilly! One reason is the loss of muscle mass that naturally occurs with ageing. This can be addressed to some extent, but it's still tough.
At least high or high-ish mileage will burn up the calories like no-one's business.
Yes, Duck, you are!
Actually, no, scrap that. I work in kilos nowadays, but still not kilometers, though I sometimes understand kph better than mph when it comes to running, not driving.
Weight control - back to that old nugget. I always find it strange that people who run loads of distance think that it means they'll lose weight. The problem is your body is working against you because it moves into a fat retention mode and at the same time slows or completely prevents muscle growth. Now, you need muscle, because of something called Basal Metabolic Rate (or some such - sorry, going off memory here) which is the amount of energy you use across time when you do nothing. Muscle burns energy when you do nothing, hence why men on average need more calories per day than women. When you age, as pointed out by sharkie, you begin to lose muscle so BMR will drop. Therefore you need to eat fewer calories, do more, or do exercise that will specifically grow muscle. The last may not help your running, though at this stage in life I think that it will. Lydiard recommended that older runners do more 'hard' exercise than younger runners to keep up (paraphrased there). Weight bearing 'muscle building' exercise will also counteract to some degree osteoporosis and other effects of aging so it's pretty good all round. The problem is it is very difficult to fit in with distance running - muscle building and distance running are antagonists, so one should be done in the absence of the other.
Exercise aside, because we all want to run, there's nutrition. And there, like M says, it's really about cleaning up your act (and I like how you've picked up the service station test, prf!). Hilly, I mentioned before about coffee when you talked about iron. Coffee inhibits the uptake of iron, so you have to make sure that you don't drink the coffee within about half an hour of meals, or supplements. It does raise the metabolic rate though, being a stimulant, so as long as you don't put sugar in it... Personally, I could lose a few pounds or kilos, I don't care which, as my appetite yoyos - some days I eat tons (or tonnes) and some days I don't need to.
Or you could visit a personal trainer. I hear Tabata Sprints are the best weight loss tool ever. And they make you so fit you can win marathons! I'd love to see a 16 stone gym newbie try them. Oh, wait, I have! That's why I left that gym...
Zion - hope you have a good birthday!
Track today. As it's very cool with rain the breathing should be much easier this session, I hope.
My question for the day...
I had a free massage after my race on Sunday. Apparently the masseurs were training to be sports therapists. While my legs felt good yesterday after the experience I have had other race massages at events in the past that have left my legs in agony. For instance I had one after Cardiff marathon several years back and the guy who did it went in so deep I was nearly crying with the pain and could hardly walk the next day. So should we really trust having a massage at an event? Also, when having it done on Sunday I was thinking this is no different to what BR does when we massage each others legs, so why would I want to pay for a general massage?
Good question, Hilly!
I've only had one, after the Blackpool Marathon, and it was brilliant in terms of relieving the immediate achiness. As for whether it affected stiffness the next day one way or the other I'm not sure. I know that we walked a few miles around Ilkley the next day with no problems so I had assumed some sort of positive benefit.
I was therefore pretty impressed all in all. However, I was a bit puzzled that she pointed out that I needed some serious work on my hamstring over a period of time or else I was going to be in a lot of pain long term. Now call be an old cynic but I think I know my legs and I dont have any hamstring problem or ever have had so I puzzled over that one and then decided that the usual pinch of salt was best applied (to the idea, not the hamstring!)
However, we have done the same as you since and massaged each other's legs. If the legs are not in any obvious distress beforehand the only immediate effect seems to be that the muscles seem to be more relaxed. When you run the next day, however, the legs feel a bit weird... I can only describe it as feeling as though a few lead weights have been inserted.
Two days later and the legs are fine again so I'm sure there are benefits but I wouldnt want to be having a massage the day before a race.
The Blackpool bods were also training as sports therapists and seemed very good. We also had a professional sports masseur working with us on the start at London and she was telling us about the amount of training, and ongoing training, required to become a practitioner. It was a mind boggling amount of training for what, as you say, seems like a reasonably straightforward process.
I suppose what I'm trying to say is that maybe there is a lot more to it than it first appears and therefore with people 'in training' the outcomes could be quite variable?
Thanks Hilly
Fab run this morning, 7 miles hilly fartlek, legs felt really strong and feel like I'm getting some speed back. At the moment though I find I'm really having to think about making my legs move faster if that makes sense.
I did a massage course a couple of years ago and would say there are definite benefits to them. However, it doesn't take alot to become a massage therapist and I personally wouldn"t use one unless they came recommended. Like most things there's good and bad. I haven't had a massage since I did the course to be honest.