Howdy, Stranger!
Categories
Options
The Middle Ground
The materials in this website are in no way intended to replace the professional medical care, advice, diagnosis or treatment of a doctor, qualified personal trainer, therapist, dietitian or nutritionist Runners's World, Part of the Hearst UK well-being network © Copyright 2017
Comments
Minni, I just had a look on the website and couldn’t spot anything, so a link would be appreciated
Ratzer – yes agreed on the virus lingering after the symptoms move on. I remember back in March at the back end of my last bout of illness, I was feeling ok but as soon as I tried to race there was nothing in the tank. It’s feels similar this time.
I am not planning on taking an extended break, not getting much choice at the moment. Though I had scaled my training back, limiting myself to one quality session per week and slowing my miles down. I hope I am just unlucky and its enough once I get back to health!
Minni - Thanks I've just entered. My entry was pure poetry, there is no way they can reject me now
YD - Frustrating for you but to have improved so steadily despite the inconsistency is a good thing. At least there is lots more to come. ps you need to look harder, i found it no problem
PRF - Good luck. It's rare you promise a big race but you always seem to deliver when you do.
Simon - Well done, you are coming along nicely. Didn't you say you were under the weather as well. If so even better.
Found it, I was looking on my phone before, small screen and all that
Ah well done both of you, I was just about to link it. I got my place through it last year and I've never known anyone not be successful. I love competitions where the prize is you pay for something!!
Last year I wrote a prize piece about family illness, my cat dying, manic depression etc etc and in the end wrote about 20 words saying I wanted to run a HM in the NE and hey presto I won!!!
I've signed up to run a stage of the Endurancelife Relay of Great Britain finishing at Lindisfarne. Anyone else doing it? There's still a couple of stages north of Newcastle needing filled.
It was just such a small improvement, I didn't notice it
(says me, who improved by a massive 0.11%).
Rumbled.
YD ... everyone knows that pies keep viruses away
.
5.4M easy for me at lunchtime... legs felt pretty bad but hopefully will recover for tomorrow. No bike today as I had some child taxi duties this morning and am going to get away early today so I can catch the boy racing at South Leeds Stadium in the 2nd of 3 inter-school league matches. No 800m or javelin this time for some reason, so he's representing his school at 1500m. 2:40 at 800m in meeting 1, so hoping he can get around 5:30 today... we'll see.
re. GNR places.
I got a call this morning offering me a free place with accommodation
and meals thrown in.
It is some kind of intercompany chest thumping exercise, they've paid
??1000 + expenses for the place and the best that they can muster to
represent them is........me
If nothing else it looks like it may set up another YD smackdown
Excellent prf. If you change your mind you can sell it on ebay!
Nice one, prf! I still think you should post your competition entry piece here, just so you can feel like you deserve the place.
1. Fastest company representative.
2. Most inspirational.
3. Best story.
Obviously I'm stuffed on the first two so I need a collective thread effort to produce a nice tear jerking story.
Tell them about that time you did a 20 miler and McDonald's had run out of McFlurries
I had better get my writing cap on then! You lot might not have noticed, but Oscar Wilde I aint!
Maybe I should write about out the Titanic battle that will ensue with prf if they let me in......
So according to the thread GP…. I need to eat more pies. Excellent. Good luck to Dr Dan Junior tonight.
Y D.. I had a virus of the sore throat variety shortly after VLM. It took about 3 weeks for the main symptoms to disappear and another week before the lethargic feeling went. Around the latter time I got two bashed knees in different incidents and stopped running for 8 days to let the knees heal and hopefully end my streak of bad luck! The rest seemed to work as I feel ok now on all fronts.
My 1st race since VLM on Tuesday, I felt a bit race rusty to say the least so treated the 10k as a brisk tempo run rather than a flat out effort. Managed to av. 6:52's without any discomfort, onwards & upwards from here hopefully. I have a club 5m next Thurs, York Park Run Sat, & another 10k the following Tuesday. Such an increase in racing frequency is of course designed to have me racing twice a day by August which seems to be the only way I can outdo PRF in this respect.
Simon.. very impressed with your track speed, good stuff.
Simon - cracking 800m there. Definitely not our smackdown meeting point!
OK, schoolboy question. Is it possible to work out from my symptoms whether I've got a bacterial or a viral infection, and whether it's worth attacking with antibiotics? If I was going through my usual "cold" routine, it would've peaked on my birthday (cheers!) and I would've been running again by Tuesday, but it's lingering like a bastard. Coughing up green stuff, slighly swollen throat (tonsils/glands??) and a mild persistent headache, mixed in with a nice bit of lethargy and definitely not inclined to do anything too active. No aches or pains, taste buds fine, sleeping quite well. I feel an NHS drop-in visit coming on.
Mr V, just an ear infection, but it really cleared up and I am 99% sure it didn't affect my performance.
YD, I agree that your improvements despite not having a clean break mean that some good stuff is to come when you do.
Phil, I used to suffer quite a few chest infections when I was younger, and the general rule was that coughing up yellow or green was a sign that antibiotics were needed. However, doctors are - quite rightly - far less willing to dish them out these days since most people in good health tend to recovery on their own. I'm on antibiotics for my ear at the moment, but that was after 1-2 weeks of leaving it alone to try and mend itself, and another week of trying ear drops first
Wardi, are you happy with that pace as a tempo? I tried to look at your times, but you're not on the WAVA list.
Wardi - Luckily the main symptoms only lasted 6 days for me so I hope I clear up fairly quickly.
As for your racing yourself fit plan, I think it’s a good one. If you come out the other end feeling strong then a few weeks of decent training should see you fighting fit in no time IMO
Phil – like Simon says, coughing up green stuff would suggest a visit to the Docs. Even if you don’t get anti-biotics you might be able to get hold of the heavy duty decongestants and inhalers. They will help with the symptoms and might get you running again, if not in top form and racing.
PP.. virals generally don't need anti-biotics, a bacterial infection usually does. The Doc will tell you which one, best of luck in shifting it anyway.
Cheers Y D, the next 10k is at Bishop Wilton. We have to run up a long nasty hill which is parallel to Garrowby Hill out that way. After that a brief flat section then a gradually steepening long downhill and a flat finish. Coming down that hill is the closest I ever got to 30 min 10k pace!
Simon.. it is tempo pace at the moment after an indifferent recent training period! After a few weeks training & racing I hope to see it come down a bit. My best race this year (I think) was a 32:30 5 miler back in January, I will see what the WAVA calculator comes out with. I am not in that sort of form at the moment however though ever the optimist.
Thanks guys. I think I will give someone in the medical profession the honour looking down my throat tomorrow and see if I can get some hard drugs out of them. Looks like bed time then.
Junior came 4th with 5:40 ... the first 3 were in a different league, so best he could have done, although he was less happy with the time (a bit cautious for the first 700m, I think).He also ended up doing high jump just to get a few more pints for the school - had to jump within minutes of finishing the 1500, so even harder than he'd thought!
Quick check in to give some of the results from the treamill/lactate test that I did, got the report yesterday. Its a bit cut and paste, so apologies for that, I'll pick out some of the salient bits when I got my time tonight. Also got a race report to give following a very muddy 7.4mile MT on Wednesday - results not posted so not sure where I finished, but performance wise I was happy that I'd hard a good hard run..
Anyway - extracts from the report:
Main points from which to base training
Lactate Threshold: 12 kph - 156 bpm
Lactate Turnpoint: 13.5 kph - 170bpm
Using the results for training
Based on your previous training history, your goals, and the results of the tests performed, it is possible to make some generic training recommendations. Based on research (Seiler 2010) that has examined long term responses and adaptation to endurance training, it seems that no more than 20% of total training volume should be at intensities corresponding to or above LTURN. The remainder should be at intensities around LT. From your test results, we can therefore conclude that around 80% of your training should be at a HR of 156 bpm or below, with the remaining 20% being at around 170 bpm. You should limit the amount of training that you do in the ‘no-mans land’ between these two intensities. The suggestion is therefore that the bulk of your training should consist of low intensity continuous steady state exercise. On one day of the week you may perform a ‘tempo’ type of training session whereby you run for no more than 20 minutes (or less if this exceeds 20% of your total weekly volume) at LTURN intensity. You could do this on a treadmill, although will need to remember that as you adapt the required speed will increase, or outdoors using the HRM to guide speed. If you do use the HRM to guide intensity, then ensure you perform an adequate low intensity warm up and also allow yourself 3-5 minutes to gradually allow HR to rise to the desired levels. If you wanted, this session could be broken down into intervals of 4x5 minutes or 2x10 minutes with short (1-2 minutes) recoveries consisting of easy running between each.
Lactate Threshold: the highest exercise intensity fuelled by ‘aerobic’ energy systems alone. Any increase in intensity above this point requires the use of ‘anaerobic’ energy sources to supplement the aerobic energy supply.
Lactate Turnpoint: defined as the exercise intensity where ‘anaerobic’ energy systems become predominant. Increasing exercise intensity above this point will further increase the percentage contribution of ‘anaerobic’ energy sources.
APPLICATION TO PERFORMANCE
Research has demonstrated that lactate threshold is significantly correlated to endurance and ultra-endurance performance (race time 60-90 mins plus). However, shorter race distances (race time 40 – 60 mins) are more closely linked to lactate turnpoint. This reflects the different energy systems used in these events.
Endurance type competition, therefore, will benefit from aerobic training that will promote adaptations that will avoid the accumulation of blood lactate. Optimal adaptations to this occur when training at the exercise intensity immediately below, at, and immediately above the lactate threshold (threshold zone). In contrast, comparatively shorter competition distances will benefit from improving their ability to tolerate lactate by working anaerobically (anaerobic 1 and 2 zones). Data from Paula Radcliffe’s sports science support team clearly supports this notion since her race pace when breaking the world best marathon time in Chicago was exactly her velocity at lactate threshold (LT), and her race pace when setting the world indoor 10km time was identical to the velocity at lactate turnpoint (LTURN).
Taking a bit of a critical view:
Money for old rope springs to mind. I'm sure that one of these tests can tell you lots of interesting facts and figures BUT is there any real value coming out of it in terms of how to train? Does knowing a HR number for the 'Lactate Threshold' and 'Lactate Turnpoint' have any real relevance to anything once you're out there training?
For instance, without knowing these figures my staple diet is:
1. 80%+ of running at steady paces.
2. Strong 10 milers at 2-5 minutes slower than race pace.
3. Mile rep sessions (5K+ pace) with 400 jog recovery.
4. Keep it all flexible and enjoy yourself.
My question is, what would I gain from knowing the LT Threshold and LT Turnpoint numbers?
If you actually tried running at specific paces as dictated by the HR numbers you'd probably drive yourself nuts because you're never running in sterile conditions anyway. You always have to take account of weather, obstructions, ebbs and flows in energy levels etc etc......which all adds up to a case of running to feel, which is the best and most enjoyable way to run anyway.
And talking of taking account of weather, it looks like there is diddly squat chance of having a crack at the V45 record tomorrow. The wind may have died down to a mere 25 mph by 9am tomorrow morning but on a 2 lap course around a lake that is likely to feel like hitting a wall for half of each lap.
Darola - what is your maxHR, or what was your maxHR during the test?
Got to disagree with prf, at least partially. Those numbers could be very useful, they give you a decent guide as to what certain training zones are. Of course you can get the same kind of data from racing and experience, however this provides a pretty good short cut to the novice or the runner just starting up like Darola. Now any sensible runner knows that hitting x pace exactly or y hr exactly on each training run isn’t always possible due to conditions, how you are feeling on the day etc. However, as long as you understand that you are working in the right ball park you know you are doing what you set out to do at the start of your run.
One thing I disagree with is the ‘no mans land’ bit. Some good training can be had in ‘no mans land’. In fact I think some of the best training I have done has been at or around that zone i.e Marathon Pace.
Anyway, stop sandbagging prf and go get a PB in Poole
Wardi – sounds like a fun race, though big downhills like that scare the life out of me, I would never make a Fell runner! On a side note, apparently some of my ancestors come from that area (well Stamford Bridge), so it must be good!
Looking forward to my swet and windy lunchtime run today, hopefully my legs will play ball!
YD - More a case of Sandbanking rather than sandbagging in that neck of the woods.
1. Fastest company representative.
2. Most inspirational.
3. Best story.
Obviously I'm stuffed on the first two so I need a collective thread effort to produce a nice tear jerking story.
So that would make your lactate threshold be at about 80.8% HRmax and lactate turnpoint 88.1% HRmax. That is if I am reading things correctly.
So my reading of this is that what they have given you as threshold is roughly at or just below Marathon Pace/intensity (when running at or about MP I get a HR in the 82 – 84% HRmax range) and the turnpoint is what I would call threshold or tempo pace. In short if you train at both paces and a bit in between you will get fitter.
Interesting stuff
Posting on your phone perchance prf?
[EDIT: oops, xpost with YD].
Darola ... so your LT reading of 156 bpm comes out as about 81% maxHR, which is harder work than I'd guessed. For me this HR equates to about MP (easy running based on your maxHR would be more like sub-145 bpm for shorter runs and sub-135 bpm for the LSR). Based on that, I find the advice quite strange ...
"...it seems that no more than 20% of total training volume should be at intensities corresponding to or above LTURN. The remainder should be at intensities around LT."
...why would you have 80% of your training at around MP?
The LTURN HR is at 88+% and that is more like HM racing pace for me. Again, 20% at HMP or above would be hard work, even if the remaining 80% was easy ... if it was at MP then forget it.
Interesting results Darola, but I admit to being in the PRF camp. Although I can see how it could help to focus improvement for someone new or returning after a long lay off. I'm sure however you use it you'll enjoy the process of running. We're all an experiment of one at the end of the day and wouldn't it be boring if we were all the same
PRF - indeed the weather is looking rather chanllenging for a 2 lap run around a lake! Mind at the moment I'm still suffering with lethargy and strange dizzy feelings, so will have to see how I feel to how much effort I can or want to put in on either of the weekend runs. It's been a very annoying few weeks what with bad knee, not caused from running and then a weird virus, as bloods came back fine so can't think of it being anything else.
3rd sub-LT session today ... 7.5m with 6.25 at 81% maxHR. Came out as 7:25/m over the quality section but I ran out of steam in the last 1-2 miles. Most of this week's mileage has felt like hard work, so looking forward to a rest day tomorrow (rest from running anyway ... junior has an open water swimming session at 07:30
)