The Middle Ground

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  • forever, I've found (anecdotally) that when I've gone through a period of high intensitiy, low volume training most easy runs are quite difficult, while I'm not 100% sure why I think part of it is due to the aerobic base declining due to lack of mileage & the training being done. It's easy to start off far too fast in easy runs in this kind of training (like how I can almost cruise a 5:40 mile for instance but struggle to keep that pace up for much longer) which is what I meant by not letting the FT fibres work. 

    I could of course be talking utter nonsense, in which case Ratzer will be along soon. 

  • Ok, thanks Duck, I see what you mean image 

  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭
    parkrunfan wrote (see)
    Marigold was nursing a hangover but it would have taken him to actually fall in the lake to be anywhere near our part of the race. He went on to finish 2nd behind his clubmate. At about 1 mile Martin Yelling worked his way through to 5th with his canine companion, being tracked reasonably closely by BRand myself in 6th and 7th. We approached a temporary bridge on the course and suddenly the dog played an absolute blinder as it developed a sudden phobia of bridges and thrust Mr Yelling into the side of the bridge.Whoops.

    Without a hint of sympathy we took our chance and surged past to bag 5th and 6th, positions we held to the end. image Po10 informs me that my head to head against Mr Yelling is now 2-0..........so I'm retiring now while the going is good! image

    Anyway for the stats, the time was officially 18:01 with splits of something like 5:51, 5:45, 5:42 but, more significantly felt really strong. Marigold reckoned the wind was worth a good 20 secs (for him) compared to a still day so I'll take that as something like a 17:30 effort.

    I'm glad you beat him prf! That's down right cheating being up in 5th position with your dog!   I think the dog probably realised this and deliberately made that halt at the bridge. imageimage

    *wonders if she can take her two labs to VLM next year* image

  • New PB of 2:12.6 (previous 2:12.9). Splits of 65/67.5. I felt I paced the race as well as I could and came in 4th of 6. Thought I might get 3rd briefly , but I couldn't match his kick.



    I think aerobically I have done all I can this season and it is speed endurance holding me back. Got a couple of sessions of 400s @ 800 pace planned for that .



    Finished the eve with the 1st leg of a 4 x 400. I think I may have just dipped under 60 (PB 60.3) and considering I had done the 800 and was not killing myself it's good news. Got a great vid to upload when I get proper Internet access.
  • Mucky Duck – I think that depend on whose junk you are talking about! You may joke about my challenge but I think prf will actually be doing half my challenge in one day on Sunday!

    Simon image a very good night’s work for you, 65/67.5 seems like a good split to me and then you follow it up with a super speedy 400! Enjoy your next takeaway you have earned it image

    forever - thining of becoming a Middle Distance runner?  

    8m for me tonight in quite warm conditions. Pace/HR ratio at 70%HRmax is about 20 seconds per mile down on pre virus. Felt like a decent run though, I am sure I will be back to full fitness before long with a few runs like that under my belt.

  • SImon image

    No plans to convert to sprint or MD, but it was nice to run a race where I didn't have to worry about tactics or pace, but just ran as hard as I could!

  • YoungPupYoungPup ✭✭✭
    Well done Simon! A PB is a PB (and two in one night is a fantastic effort) image



    Plenty of other great racing going on from Darola, YD, prf and CB, and loads of brilliant training as always...



    I'm plugging away with my training, and so far everything feels as though it's going ok. I think I'm definitely getting stronger in terms of endurance, and my ability to push myself and my tolerance for discomfort feels as though it's getting better.



    I ran the Epsom 10k on Sunday, and due to some stupidity on my part I didn't have my Garmin. I didn't even have a watch on, so had no way of knowing my pace and had to just run by feel.



    End result was a nice enjoyable hard run, and came in at 41:34.



    This is a PB by 6 seconds from the race I did in early May, and hopefully means that on fresh(er) legs (and on a flat course) I can finally get close to 40mins next weekend in Richmond.



    The challenge though is balancing wanting to have a shot at a sub-40 10k with getting in the miles for the marathon training. I'm repeatedly telling myself that the marathon is the main goal, so miles come first. However, I'm juggling what I do when, and as an example I did 5 recovery miles this morning and 18 miles home tonight so I can get two easy days on Friday and Saturday... Feel knackered now thoughimage
  • parkrunfanparkrunfan ✭✭✭

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     Minni - I think you're right, you can just tell that that dog as a cunning plan up its fur covered sleeve.image

    YD - 17:32 indeed imageimage And besides Mrs YD becoming a parkrun tourism fan I reckon little junior YD is as well......

    Duck - Good to see you back. I think what you're describing is just that you become so used to running on pure glycogen that when you start adding fat into the fuel mix the whole engine starts misfiring. Ah, just realised that it is bad timing to use car analogies.....

    Simon - Unbelievably fast....I might have a crack at an 800 later in the summer just to appreciate how fast you guys are going.

    YP - Dont bother tapering for 10K PB attempts if you're in marathon training, they're just as likely to come off 'training through' as tapering. Congrats on the 6 second PB and excellent mileage today. image

    Chubby - Not doing badly if you can impress the girls!

    forever - Trying something new in training? Is it a secret?

    10.0 Miles @ 8:23/mile this evening.

     

  • YD, 20s/mile is not really much. Are your runs generally flat?



    YP, nice job. Without a watch too . I don't use one for track races, but probably don't have the bottle to do 5k+ without one. I think 40 mins is very achievable.



    PRF , 800 thread smackdown?
  • YP – excellent racing and pace judgement without a watch. Bodes well for your 10K at Epsom. As for tapering, I would keep the miles up but keep them all easy this week with maybe a short slow run to freshen the legs up the day before. The races will provide the quality workouts you need.

    prf – I am not going to be at the Longest parkrun on Sun morning as I am racing, there is a small chance I may be able to make one or two of the afternoon runs though. If you find an open event 800 let me know and I will tag along

    Simon – yes they have been flat, though last nights run felt ok at that intensity, but I wouldn’t have fancied picking the pace up. I think I am slowly improving, hopefully by the weekend I will be ok for a blast.

  • Simon well done again! Look forward to seeing the video of your painimage

    YP most of my pbs in marathon training came from untapered races. The one I did taper for was very disappointing!

    YD/prf no not thinking of doing Middle Distance just trying something that I hope will help put my 5k in line with what I should be able to do.

    It's always been my weakest distance even when concentrating on 5k/10ks so I'm trying to find the missing ingredient!

  • Nice PB YP. Looks good for the weekend. And good mileage today!

    3.5 gentle miles this morning. Duck was right, I  was aching! Club run tonignt. Easing the mileage back up gently...

  • Simon if that's what you can do without working on speed endurance I shudder to think what's coming. Great race. I do like the sound of a 800m smackdown featuring prf! 

    YD - I forgot about prf's little challenge Sunday! Not taking anything away from what you're trying of course image 

    YP, great race but at prf said I'd advise to just train through them. FWIW some of my best races have come just a few days after longer 10M+ runs so tapering isn't as necesary as you think.

    cb - watch the hamstrings! They're the worst after stuff like that.

    Progression run today, as soon as I can be bothered to get out the door.

  • That curry was delicious.



    Duck, I have worked on a fair bit on speed endurance. I just feel that I can do a bit more in the short term, whereas further aerobic development will take months rather than weeks.



    I found an open event in Crawley that includes a mile tomorrow. I may well nip down.
  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭

    Nice racing Simon and Ypup!imageimage ... dig that WAVA table out! image

    My bike's in for a service at the moment, so no commuting. However, a did do a 7.5M run with 6.25 at subLT (81% maxHR) which came out at 7:20/m. Felt much better this time and even thought about extending the distance ... but some grumbling from my left achilles area made me think otherwise.

  • Good idea working on your weakness forever, I am supposed to be doing something similar but I cant seem to get out and do any decent quality training at the moment.

    Duck , my challenge is as much about my OCD and me wanting a completed tick list that anything else! Now stop being lazy and get your run done.

    Do you fancy your chances of a mile PB Simon?

    Good consistent consistency from Dr Dan, I hope the ankle is ok.

    4 very slow cross country miles for me at lunchtime today, a lovely run in the sunshine. I have the day off work tomorrow at Mrs YDs insistence. This is because the Olympic torch is coming by my house, the good news is that it will be done and dusted by 9am, so its not a complete waste of a days leave.

  • Ah, get you now Simon. Yep, a few 4*400 sessions will do the trick. I'd recommend a few longer 1500 ones too - 1000/800/600/400's worked well for me this year. Hell, even something like  2*1600 @ 3k so you've got a bit of a kick left at the end (is it my imagination or have you mentioned being outkicked a bit recently?). 

    Lucky you YD, I missed the torch in Aberdeen a few weeks ago. Have you been seeing some torchbearers are expressing disappointment that their torch is going for 'only' a few hundred £££ on ebay? I mean, it's not like you'd want to keep the thing at all...

    Anyway, got my run done - 5M progressive. Splits of  6'47/6'45/6'31/6'12/6'04 (5M in 32'21, 6:27/m avg) probably flatter to decieve a bit because I'm very well rested right now, but still shows there's not much wrong with my overall fitness levels right now so a nice bit of quality bagged. Probably won't get a chance to run tomorrow as I have a small thing called graduation to attend image

  • Duck have a fabulous day image

  • YoungPupYoungPup ✭✭✭
    Duck - hope you enjoy your graduation! I presume you will be posting the obligatory picture of you in a gown and mortarboardimage
  • Mr VMr V ✭✭✭

    Duck - Sounds like the fitness is in good shape. Nice session. Enjoy graduation image

    YD - Hope you've had a good days recuperation. I'm sure you'll be back cracking out some good sessions soon.

    I did a  mile time trial on the town moor as part of my session tonight. Wanted to practice for Saturday and get a feel for how I should be feeling at each stage. Did 5.12 with half way in 2.30. Looks quite promising as I would expect to go a fair bit faster on a track, in a race when pushing myself. Hopefully this will help with pacing and I can avoid going off too fast which I obviously did today and will be even more of a danger in a race situation!

  • Enjoy your graduation Duck. I didn't bother personally - it clashed with a canoe polo tournament / piss up!

    Nice miling Mr V. Seems bloody fast to me!

    A couple of gentle runs today. Legs still feeling it, but I'm looking better than a lot of the other staff!

     

  • DarolaDarola ✭✭✭
    Duck - have a great day. And good luck with what ever follows. Fitness looks in good order to!


    YP - great pb. I turned round to fetch my Garmin before my last parkrun, like leaving your running pumps at home.


    YD/PRF/BR/Hilly - good solid parkrunning all. Really want to fit more of these in to my schedule, but there always seems to be something in the way


    Had hoped to run in Devon this week but was still a little heavy legged from Wednesday, and as I have another MT on Friday thought I'd do some easy miles instead. Totaled 30 miles for the first time last week with no I'll effects, and tomorrow I'm out with my old club for a social few miles across the country, for the first time in 19 years! All in all I'm enjoying it a fair amount at the moment.
  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭

    image All sounding good Darola! Happy days. image

    Congrats on graduation Duckimage ... I will be doffing my hat to our VC and reading out the names of our graduands/graduates next month. Apart from the occasional tricky name, it's always a good dayimage.

    Good work on the time-trial MrV ... a sensible session I think.image

    Not sure whether I'll run or swim today ... I like living life on the edgeimage.

     

  • Dr Dan run while the sun is shining!

    Mr V promising solo trial indeed image

    I have my first race since VLM tonight and I am dreading in. It seems so much less stressful when doing it regularly image

  • Curly45Curly45 ✭✭✭

    Well I havent read the whole thing but I certainly find this bit interesting:

    "so we propose a model where training is defined as the realisation of genetic potential"

    This graphic is especially illuminating I think:
    http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/46/8/555/F2.medium.gif

    Black is nuture, grey is nature.

  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭
     
    forever wrote (see)
    Dr Dan run while the sun is shining!

    Good plan forever ... took your advice and ran 7.5M int he sunshineimage. Much nice than swimming.

  • Wise move Dr Dan I've just seen the forecast for tomorrow image

    So first race post VLM. Not really looking forward to it and nearly talked myself out of it a few times but decided it really would show me where I'm at.

    Nice course, a couple of small climbs but plenty of down sections and a course I really like. As a 5k I decided to run pretty hard from the off and just see what it gave me. I was hoping for sub 22 as my last two parkruns have been 22.30 and 22.07.

    Very pleased with 21.26 by my watch. Much better than I expected and only 22 secs away from my pb.

    And once I got racing I really enjoyed it! I think the bugs back image

     

  • forever wrote (see)

    And once I got racing I really enjoyed it! I think the bugs back image

    image

  • parkrunfanparkrunfan ✭✭✭

    Duck - It sounds like you made the most of the graduation day, I cant remember most of mine. It was a case of getting given a bit of paper by a minor royal and then on the wine by 11am. No more cushy student life for you though........image

    Mr V - 5:12 is shifting. Downhill and wind assisted I take it? image

    Darola - Enjoyment is 95% of the reason for doing this stuff, so you must be doing something right. image

    Curly - I think the link went a bit screwy, what was it about then?

    forever - It wont be long before we're seeing forever PBs again. Mind you, you need to be getting into form ready for this WAVA smackdown at Dereham! image

     

    Warrington 10K last night.

    It was a flattish course but still not ideal due to having grass and trail sections and, more significantly for me, several sharp turns which lost momentum.

    As such I was delighted to run exactly the same time as at Woodhall Spa 10 days earlier, 36:38. As is often the case, the official results added a second so I cant claim ultimate consistency!

    36:39 - 5:58, 5:48, 5:49, 5:57, 5:58, 5:56 (5:12)

    It feels like these 36:xx times are stacking up in preparation for a breakthrough into the 35:xx region........but only time will tell whether that is actually the case. I'll keep bashing away and see what happens. image

    And to be only 4:41 down on a 29:38 runner and 1:10 down on BR was encouraging. image

     

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