The Middle Ground



  • Shocking stuff from the BBC - people drink far too much and flashy cushioned shoes are a waste of money!

    Well I never...........imageimage


  • RatzerRatzer ✭✭✭

    Dr Daniel Lieberman is my new hero!  "It's not what you wear on your feet, it's the way you run..."

  • Anyone think that women on the treadmill before the presenter got her running analysed looked a little like a certain former forumite with an... interesting reputation?

    Nice going Darola!

    Simon, yeah 1500/mile pace roughly, maybe a little quicker than it. I'll give 2*1500 a go at some point I think. 

    Ratzer, some 400 runners do about 10k as a long run over winter but it's a minority. I think me & simon have shown what a mileage base can do for 800 running this year though! 

    That Lydiard, bit of  a hero of mine image 

  • PhilPubPhilPub ✭✭✭

    Darola - excellent. Haven't weighed myself for months but I think it's going in the right direction, probably similar to yourself at the moment.

    Plan A complete. 11.5M total incl. 6.6M progressive tempo.
    1st lap 3.33M, 19:50, 5:57/m, HR 159/78% max
    2nd lap 3.29M, 18:51, 5:43/m, HR 173/85% max
    Felt pretty comfortable, definitely going to get back into the weekly tempo habit.

    Dietary notes: I've started cooking with rice bran oil cos it's meant to be proper healthy and has a higher smoking point than olive oil, so better for stir-frying.  Found out this evening that it makes for a very tasty saute potatoes, accompanying my cheese, leek and mushroom omelette and curly kale.  Champion.

  • prf who said I wasn't going to be there? image

  • forever - Erm, you! image So does that mean you've de-wussed and are now up for a WAVA dogfight? image

  • My plans are always changing image the moment I should be there. I don't think it will be much of a battle thoughimage

  • RatzerRatzer ✭✭✭

    The rest of us need one of those things that they put on the London Marathon site, that shows you where two people are compared to each other in a race - except that this one needs to adjust for WAVA...  Hmm... Any programmers around here?

    Simple pyramid for me tonight, 90, 120, 150, 120, 90 at 95-97% and off 5' recoveries.  Felt great, and apart from my start I'm feeling quick over the shorts now, but... my head feels like someone stuffed it with cotton wool, then soaked the cotton wool in sneezyhead gunk, then soaked that in a double dose of green nasal tissue filler (No, when I say tissue filler I don't mean hanky handspanky juice, you naughty people!).  Coming down off the pyramid I felt sick for the first time on a track, and I still do.  Very much down to the violent reaction of cold virus with swift exercise on a tartan track.

    So, a day off tomorrow (oops, today) methinks, until various vile liquids have been forcefully extruded from numerous cranial cavities by the activities of Mr Beechams and his cohorts.

    I would say manana, except that accent missing from the first 'n' would make it rhyme with banana, therefore I shall bid you adieu.

  • Curly45Curly45 ✭✭✭

    Alehouse - good luck to her its a cracker - a few friends are doing it too this month.

    Ratzer - Simon does that sort of stuff I believe...if Sprouty is lurking so does he, am sure it could be done by some geeks with a bit time (and I'll buy them a beer). Which reminds me - Simon you need to get a new sick note image

    Hope you feel better soon Razter

    Good work on the weight loss Darola

    I am doing 7 tonight, 5 tomorrow (including a parkrun) and 15 on Sunday to take me to my first 50 mile week on the comeback trail...I have also passed 100 cycling miles for the month which is pretty good for a novice cyclist!

    I also have a picnic and rounders tomorrow - could be soggy image

  • Curly45Curly45 ✭✭✭

    And I watched some of that prog last night - I love Noakes even more now *runner crush* That bit where he broke down in fits of giggles about low cal sports drinks was brilliant image

  • Ratzer hope you feel better soon.

    Curly all heading in the right direction for sure. Enjoy your weekend.

    Will be offline now till Sunday so will hopefully see you all at Dereham.

  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭
    Darola wrote (see)
    Blimey! Just got back from 6 miles off road, stepped on the scales and have gone sub 11 stone for the first time in over 15 years!

    Nice ... I'm looking forward to seeing sub 12 stone for the first time in 25 years. But it will be 2-3 weeks at best.

    Soggy cycle in this morning ... plan to escape for a solid sub-LT session at lunchtime, and then cycle home tonight. Next week I will have to drop/collect my son on the way to work, which will completely scupper my bike/run commuting routine ... I will need to make a new plan image.

  • forever wrote (see)

    My plans are always changing image the moment I should be there. I don't think it will be much of a battle thoughimage

    Your last outing was 77.48%, mine was 78.78% (and that was on a completely flat course in ideal conditions!)

    I'm glad that you think the outcome is obvious.......I dont. image


    Btw: Who is Sprouty?

    rimi mik wrote (see)

    The middle ground is very good.

    Agreed! image

  • Curly45Curly45 ✭✭✭

    He is on Fetch but he has read a lot of this thread - I am not sure if he still lurks around, but he created the Stillman Table Calculator things here:

  • PhilPubPhilPub ✭✭✭

    You need to get hold of CharlieW on the sub-3 forum, he'll sort you out some whizzy WAVA programme and probably provide the hardware as well.  Check out his legendary Garmin/USB bodge!


  • Phil, red tops get my vote. Seems a shame not to invest in some red shorts as well. It's a shame my red HS4s wore out. Rice bran oil, eh? I always just use corn oil or lard for my stir frying.

    Ratzer, certainly the majority of my improvements have come from base mileage. Even the 400 is considered to be about 50% aerobic, but I think it's a mistake to translate energy system requirements into training requirements. The 400 runners I have spoken to do very low mileage even in the winter.

    Ratzer, Curly, actually I am in the process of building several geeky tools/calculators. It's something I had planned to do last year, but have only just found some spare time now. Anything anybody would find useful, let me know.

    Curly, it was sTicknote image I have a new server so I will sort it out this weekend (if you hassle me enough). Nice mileage from you.

    I gave the club and planned 200s a miss last night and instead did 4 x 25" uphill sprints with 4' recovery. Annoyed to see that my Garmin seems to include recovery time as part of the workout. Is that usual? Will I actually have to RTFM?

  • The Duckinator wrote (see)

    Still another good race time (is it really 22 in 48 days? insane). I imagine you're feeling very robust right now?

    Yep, 22 in 48 up to Wednesday and then there will be another 4 in 5 days from that will tot up to 26 races in 55 days. (a shocking 29 non racing days in less than 2 months! image)

    Most have been at 6 miles or under though, so now that marathon training is starting the races will become less frequent and longer on average. But yes, robust is a very apt word to describe the current state of affairs. image


    Simon - I can certainly relate to those feelings that you describe at different parts of a track race, that is why I was surprised to feel so comfortable on Wednesday despite running faster than for years.

    Ratzer - Like the thinking on the VLM number.

    Alehouse - Will get to Burnage at some point but down in Norwich/Dereham this weekend. I'm over in your neck of the woods next Tuesday though for the 1500 at Stretford.

    Curly - 100 cycling miles? But you hate cyclists......


  • Curly45Curly45 ✭✭✭

    *hassles Simon* Also can you update it with recent additions please image

    I know PRF but I am not a cyclist. I am commuter image

  • PRF, I thought I had raced a lot recently thanks to MD-ing, but bloody hell.

    Curly, stop nagging me

    Phil, according to Po10 it's 1-1.|58256 I must have been feeling under the weather at that parkrun ...


  • PhilPubPhilPub ✭✭✭

    Ha!  And if I ever pick up an 800g javelin (you learn something new every day...) you're definitely in trouble!

  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭
    PhilPub wrote (see)

    You need to get hold of CharlieW on the sub-3 forum, he'll sort you out some whizzy WAVA programme and probably provide the hardware as well.  Check out his legendary Garmin/USB bodge!


    Awesome! image

  • PhilPub wrote (see)

    Found out this evening that it makes for a very tasty saute potatoes, accompanying my cheese, leek and mushroom omelette and curly kale.  Champion.

    I just had lunch and that's making me feel hungry again already!

    Simon, that's odd. I use sporttracks which has a 'stopped' field (so when doing sprint sessions etc it comes out with about 45 minutes 'stopped' time) but it never included it as part of the session.

    5M today, feeling ok for a crack at parkrun tomorrow. May not have enough time to get to the hill race though.

    Anyway, here's a prospect that has me rather excited:

    Open 10,000m at Aberdeen Sports Village, July 31st. No standard required. 

    Hell yes.

  • Mr VMr V ✭✭✭

    Anyway, here's a prospect that has me rather excited:

    Open 10,000m at Aberdeen Sports Village, July 31st. No standard required. 

    Hell yes.

    Will be interesting to see how you do off your MD training. I bet its going to feel a very long way! I quite fancy it actually. How many hours on the train from Newcastle to Aberdeen imageimage

  • Google maps puts it at just over 4 hours by train..... go on!!

    I will probably go for sub-39, my endurance is pretty good right now and the 3 parkruns I've done in the last month have been done around 5M-10M intensity, so I've been keeping up with tempo-style efforts too. We'll skip over the fact I've not run over 75 minutes since June!

  • Duck, 25 laps? Ugh. No. I am trying to decide whether to get drunk tonight or do a track 3k at Tooting Bec tomorrow.

    Phil, video of our race on Wednesday

  • PhilPubPhilPub ✭✭✭
    The Duckinator wrote (see)
     No standard required. 


    ...just a healthy dose of masochism.

    (Sorry, I mean...) Get in!  image  Will be interesting to see what an MD'er makes of the experience.

    I'm in the middle of executing my new improved extra-sessions training plan.  It's the end of the "Friday = rest day" era, which I eased out of gently last week with a single run, but today was a lunchtime gym session (15 mins bike, 30 mins row) which will be followed by an easy run this evening.  Then tomorrow all being well I'll double up again with track cycling (dry weather predicted! Yay!) and another easy run.

  • PhilPubPhilPub ✭✭✭

    x-post... Simon - I think those shorts look majestic!  It doesn't look anywhere near as horrendous as I thought it might.  In my mind my form was going all over the place towards the end.  No sense of the agony at all!  Good stuff, Dale was flowing nicely at the end there.

  • Phil, my shorts are so baggy: they are actually my spare ones since my race ones were not clean. Also, my club vest is about two sizes too big. I look like a clown image

    Interesting that I remembered overtaking that kid between 400-500 and it was actually 800-900. I wonder how often I get my race reports wrong.

    The clubmate is Ben, not Dale. They accidentally put the pacemaker's name in the results image. Annoying that we were basically neck and neck at the start of the season and he is gradually getting away from me. I blame youth.


  • PhilPubPhilPub ✭✭✭

    D'oh!  I thought it was Ben from memory, but checked the results just to make sure. image Having watched it again, I can see a big contrast between your "knees up" coming into the finish, and me barely being able to pick my feet up off the ground.  Definitely think my shuffle is better suited to the long stuff.  image

  • RatzerRatzer ✭✭✭

    image I noticed exactly the same, Phil, watching Simon's 'fast' form into the line and your maintained distance-efficient form.  I was going to comment on your earlier post that your form wasn't as horrendous as you thought - no, it definitely wasn't, but you can see a clear difference all the way around between you and Simon, especially in cadence.  It's distance efficiency versus pace maintenance, and the only difference seemed to be who could get their knees up at the end.

    Cracking video.  I've watched it twice already.  Shame they kept focussing away from you both on the home straight which was always when Phil looked as though he was just about to have a crack at Simon.

    You both looked a bit old for a schoolboys' competition, mind.


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