The Middle Ground

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Comments

  • Good for co-ordination and balance I'd say and looking like a fool to driversimage
  • What about hurdling sheep instead of dodging them?

    (Or is my thinking getting a bit wooolly now?....... image )

  • PhilPubPhilPub ✭✭✭
    I'll pass on that, thanks.  The last time I fell over backwards going downhill was on a poorly executed snowboard accident.  Thankfully there was snow on the ground (funnily enough) but I still got a good thwack to the back of the head.
  • PhilPub wrote (see)
    I'll pass on that, thanks.  The last time I fell over backwards going downhill was on a poorly executed snowboard accident.  Thankfully there was snow on the ground (funnily enough) but I still got a good thwack to the back of the head.

    I would have hoped there was snow on the ground, otherwise you'd probably be a youtube sensation, like the star wars kidimage

  • RatzerRatzer ✭✭✭
    PhilPub wrote (see)
    I'll pass on that, thanks.  The last time I fell over backwards going downhill was on a poorly executed snowboard accident.  Thankfully there was snow on the ground (funnily enough) but I still got a good thwack to the back of the head.

    Last time I did that I sat on my hand, and it still hasn't recovered!  (The hand, not my seat.)  Helmets are a great idea. image (For your head, not your seat!)

    Haven't even figured out the skipping backwards bit yet, let alone trying to hurdle sheep while doing it.

    What is the best recovery between reps?  Running, jogging, walking, skipping, standing, sitting, lying down...?  On hill reps, is moving backwards down the hill better than moving forwards down the hill?

  • Curly45Curly45 ✭✭✭

    You lot are mad!!

    Thanks for coming back with the explanations Ratzer image

    On recovery I walk around, but if I did less reps I would jog (my excuse is I've earned my walk with some speed)...

    Oh and I have a question about poor circulation - does anyone else suffer terribly with the cold like I do? I am slim (size 6) so  dont have lots of nice insulation, but you would think running would improve my circulation to keep me warmer, but I seem to be cold a lot of the time now... 

  • MoraghanMoraghan ✭✭✭

    For me the best type of recovery depends solely on the type of session you are running.  In a season I have used anything from MP to standing still for 'recovery'.

    Ratzer - you mentioned earlier running slightly downhill on your diagonal section.  Downhill running is something Lydiard recommended during his hill phase.  I have done a few downhill 10 * 100m sessions fast relaxed sessions at the park this year.  I found them useful but you absolutely have to have prepared diligently and built up to the session in the previous weeks. 

  • RatzerRatzer ✭✭✭

    No doubt that downhill running can be stressful.  I have found it to be at its worst when following HR pacing then finding myself on a long steep downhill.  I give up and use it as a rest rather than try to sprint down!

    The decline I use is gentle.  I give myself little chance of overextending, though it is a possibility, what with the point being to run at high speed to get used to the mechanics of it.  And I remember the mantra given by my snowboard instructor, that turning up the hill will slow you down!

    Finally, the triangle I use results conveniently in all the sheep being herded into the bottom corner of the field where I can use them as a large, fluffy crash-mat.

    image

  • MoraghanMoraghan ✭✭✭

    Like a harem you could say?

  • Curly45Curly45 ✭✭✭
    Was Hilly's 5k tonight? Hope it went well anyway image
  • Curly - 19:38.  39 secs off where she wants to be but a reasonable marker.  The John Carr course was not quite as quick as I believed (a bit off road and slightly undulating).  A bit of a scrum at the beginning made it hard to run a consistent line.

    I did 16:58, which was ok too (46 faster than Bradford Parkrun which given the fact I've raced 3 times in the last week would put my estimate of Bradford of 60 secs slower than a flat one as pretty accurate).

    Hilly was 1st F45 in the YVAA champs (5th or 6th woman on the night I think).

    I was 20-odd in the race and got the 3rd M40 award as one guy in front had not entered the championships.

    How did PRF do at one of my all time faves - Spencer's Dash?

  • Congrats to both of you, that must be starting to fire the enthusiasm back up again.

    That 16:58 is exactly where I want to be at the end of the Summer - a lot of work to do between now and then though.

    Spencer Arms was good tonight, 7th place and some more progress timewise. This is the progression since I started training again last year:

    Apr09 24:44

    May09 24:20

    Jun09 24:04

    Jul09 24:12

    Aug09 23:51 (18th)

    Sep09 23:28 (10th)

    Apr10 23:13 (9th)

    May10 22:42 (7th)

    So nice progress but still a fair way off BRs 20:35 clocking last year!

  • PRF - don't go setting too big a pb or it'll be harder to get your 10 bonus points each raceimage
  • Good progression there, PRF.

    Having looked at the link Moraghan posted about backwards running I decided to look it up as I have heard that it is acutally beneficial to runners, but I've never really looked into it.  I found this http://www.backward-running-backward.com/PDF.Stevenson.pdf which is rather intersting.  There's a lot about boxers and other sports, but plenty in there to why it would be good for running. What do other's think?

  • Curly45Curly45 ✭✭✭

    Some good racing going on then image

    Reading that pdf now - loving the quality pictures!  

  • Moraghan - as you were the first to bring up backwards running is it something you do, as it says that it's good for strengthening the quads and helping with knee problems?
  • Barnsley Runner wrote (see)
    PRF - don't go setting too big a pb or it'll be harder to get your 10 bonus points each raceimage


    So, so true BR - this is one series that is ripe for a bit of Bubka-ing! image

    53 points so far, with the leading vet on 57 so I need to use any advantages going........

  • MoraghanMoraghan ✭✭✭

    Great link Hilly, very amusing.  I bet BR would approve of the running shoes on page 12.

    "Unfortunately, there will always be people who will laugh at you while you are running backwards.  Sometimes, if the conditions are right, they will even boo you".  Ha ha.

    Doing backward running drills are no brainers for boxing and American football because they both involve moving backwards during competition (NFL defensive backs and QBs).  I used to do backward running drills when I was serious about my tennis for coordination and warm-up purposes.

    I would guess that for it to be that beneficial for quads and therefore knees you'd have to do a fair bit of it - too much to be an efficient use of time.

    I haven't tried it for running but admittedly one of the weaknesses of running is that it doesn't develop any allround athleticism and that everything is done in the sagittal plane.

    I'm going to incorporate backwards running into my drill routine, at the start of recovery runs and add in the backward skipping on the down portion of hill repeats and report back.  For me it seems more appropriate for a drill exercise than anything else.  It's not really backwards running but carioca step drills can also be a good drill to do.

    The world record for backward running the 800m is 2:31.3!

    http://www.recordholders.org/en/list/backwards-running.html

  • That is somewhat mind boggling!

    On the subject of slightly odd world records, does anyone else think this one is a bit soft? I'm sure we could bag a world record for the thread with a bit of effort.....

     http://www.alternativerecords.co.uk/recorddetails.asp?recid=428&page=cat

  • Curly45Curly45 ✭✭✭
    I'm the lightest (unless Duck/Zion are tiny) - I'll sit in it image
  • Moraghan - you can be the guinea pig then and let us all know how it goes.

    Yes, he'd approve of the running shoes, but even more so to the bare foot running on p.15image

    PRF - lol, not sure that one would pass H&S regulations though.

    One thing I noticed from all the records for backwards running there only seemed to be one British record and that was for 24 hours - TWENTY FOUR HOURS!!

  • Curly45Curly45 ✭✭✭

    I love the socks/shorts combo more than anything image

    24 hours is just mind boggling - I bet it is a lot harder than it looks too (not going to try am clumsy enough going forwards and I already have massive calves and thighs from gymnastics - I do not need to make them worse!) 

  • Quick read back...... crikey you lot are fast!!

    I found when I used to run for a club I felt pressure whenever I raced, however, since coming back to running and as yet not belonging to a running club I find racing much less stressful. I try to see each race as a learning step and don't really set myself targets. As long as its all heading in the right direction I'm happy.

    Really fed up at the moment as have caught my daughters cold. Should be doing my marathon on Sunday but at the moment really not sure if I will make the starting line. Feels more than a cold as I have felt soooooo tired aswell. RHR is up 8bpm still so will play it by ear. Two days to goimage

    Think I'll let you have the trolley seat Curly45 as the speed of these guys I'd be scared of the consequences if we crashedimage

  • PhilPubPhilPub ✭✭✭

    prf - I'd give that a go.  Wouldn't be the first time I broke a soft running world record!   Given that shopping trolleys rarely go in a straight line I suggest we find one that veers slightly to the left and do it on a track. image

    When it comes to me and going backwards, winter sports seem to feature quite heavily.  I once skied 5kms backwards.  I snapped the front off a rental ski going down a huge mogul field and it was the only way to get back to the nearest lift.  I thought I was quite good at it, actually.

    Sorry, this is a training thread isn't it.  *ahem*  Anyone want to talk about hills?  Since training for the Beachy Head marathon last year I've found a new appreciation for how bloody useful hills are for strengthening, and for getting many of the benefits of traditional interval training without the same impact, which I'm currently finding particularly useful on the road back from injury.

    Favourite session: mid-length run hilly fartlek. Uphill: hard / downhill: recovery / flat: steady (+ w/u & c/d) Obviously nice if you can find a nice off-road hilly/undulating woodland trail area with a mixture of short/sharp and longer gentle slopes, but repeat hills if necessary.  I'm sure others can recommend more structured and scientific sessions but for me this covers a lot of bases, doing a lot to improve your form and fitness on the flat as well on the hills.  I'm trying to do at least one deliberately hilly session a week.

  • Zion - that's a shame.  I had exactly the same thing a few weeks ago and had to drop out of my marathon at the half way point.  I'd had a sore throat a few days before it and kept trying to ward it off with all sorts of things and then on the morning I felt so rough and came down with the full lurgy the day after.  I know it's not ideal, but is there another one in a couple of weeks you could jump into?  There seems to be a few around at this time of year.

    PP - sounds like a nice session.  My coach has me doing short hills.  I think that one thing to remember when doing hills is not to choose one that alters the form, so always go for gradual climbs rather that sharp ones that make you bend over from the waist.  I always imagine I'm being pulled up by a cycle and focus on one point up the hill that my legs are working towards getting to in good form.

  • Curly45Curly45 ✭✭✭

    Awww I'm jealous - I have no hills - but I'm in Leeds this weekend and going to have a bash at 20 hilly miles on Sunday - I do find though that the recovery period at the top is the worse bit (when your legs are still really stiff) or is this just an occassional hill runner problem? 

  • PhilPub all my running is done on hilly courses. I definitely think they have contributed to my relatively quick return to fitness. I do exactly the same hilly fartlek session plus a reverse where I run slow uphill and fast downhill.
  • Hilly sorry to hear that. Tricky business getting to the starting of a marathon 100 percent. Thought I'd done so well as I didn't miss a days training! Unfortnately this is the only one I would be able to do over the next couple of months so will have to have a real think about what to do. Have thought of just plodding round it  for the experience if I don't feel too bad but don't know if this would do more harm than good. I have entered Mablethorpe in October but was really looking forward to this one. Did you decide against doing another?
  • RatzerRatzer ✭✭✭
    Hilly wrote (see)
    Having looked at the link Moraghan posted about backwards running I decided to look it up as I have heard that it is acutally beneficial to runners, but I've never really looked into it.  I found this http://www.backward-running-backward.com/PDF.Stevenson.pdf which is rather intersting.  There's a lot about boxers and other sports, but plenty in there to why it would be good for running. What do other's think?


    Having not read all of it, but reading through the anecdotes in the distance running section, it seems to be an evangelistic diatribe with little behind it (excuse the pun).  The impact on an untrained runner would appear to be the same as the stats lauded around interval training for the same period - quick to bring you up to fitness - and performed in the same way with hard work followed by easy work and a progression of the hard work.  How long can it progress for?

    The mechanics of backwards running are similar to those of sprinting, and the knee injury avoidance principles appear to be the same as those followed by many runners, in landing on the toes.  There has been a pushback against weighted knee extensions in recent years due to the stress over the knee.  I defer to my consultants and physios here.

    Runners in the finish time alluded to can easily have a sprint finish as it is using fibres that haven't been used much for the rest of the race.  Not so much true for the elites.

    Moraghan is absolutely right that running is not a whole body sport improving overall athleticism.  I find that out every time I try to train with my son's football team.  But I don't do football training because I want to run distance well, not sprint and cut on a football field, which caused my knee injuries years ago.  I haven't had a knee injury since getting form correction.

    I don't feel any pain in my knee when I'm sitting down at my desk.  So it must be doing my knee good, right?

    Discuss.

    Oh, and PhilPub, I did exactly that for fartlek just the other night, challenging the hills and resting on the downslope.  I went out without my HRM, it was quite refreshing!  Although, trying to stick a set HR on a hilly course causes the reverse, with easy restful uphills and mad downhills.

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