Howdy, Stranger!
Categories
The Middle Ground
The materials in this website are in no way intended to replace the professional medical care, advice, diagnosis or treatment of a doctor, qualified personal trainer, therapist, dietitian or nutritionist Runners's World, Part of the Hearst UK well-being network © Copyright 2017
Comments
I am just happy to occasionally see 8.05 for 1/4 mile fast running on the flat...one day I would like to string a whole mile together
Phil: I would think 2.59 gun time or chip time
I do remember my last London it was a blue start took me 10 minutes to cross the line total nightmare 2005 Flora were the sponsor those were the days
Miles makes smiles.
Progression
DT and WJH: Good luck for the weekend in case I don't post before then! I'm snowed under with wedding prep.
Looks like the race is out of your legs Andrew!
Decent week WP!
Good run there Myox and hope the wedding prep goes well.
Cheers PRF started lunchtime and believe it or not it was a tip from Phil a few years ago (I am sure of it) to have a normal meal the evening before. It's worked very well the last few years and make sure I don't overdo things to feel bloated the morning after. Looks like you are on for another excellent run on Sunday!
I'd put money on you getting a metronomic time Phil!
Looks like a PB is on after all now having seen something on the BBC news website about the Manchester marathon being 380 metres long in 2014 and 2015. To do this over a year later - for BOTH races (stupid me did both) is nothing short of disgraceful! I am lucky in that it just affects my non GFA PB so can live with it...however, my brother ran 2:53 there last year and deferred from London with injury which means he could potentially not have the qualifying time because of this train wreck- yet one of his club pals is running Sunday off the same bloody race! Totally ridiculous situation and don't think I'll be in a rush to do that one again...he seems to think that they will have a difficult case to stop him with GFA at London next year though so we shall see.
That said, I always remember the 25 mile marker being in a strange place in 2015...and in 2016 it was in exactly the same place and thought nothing of it as it seemed to be (at the time) over distance. I also remember the watch being 26:02 miles but was reassured when reading many comments about tight turns / tree cover, etc, etc. The short Cardiff half in 2012 was bad enough but because of some road works items being moved at the last moment, but this is another level altogether having not noticed the error first time round! Is this at least one of the reasons why they moved the course this year after all???!!! No excuses for it really to do this twice whatsoever.
Even worse WJH ... it was 2013, as well as '14 and '15, ... and it was 380 short. What a disaster of a race that one is! Time for Leeds to take over methinks!
5.4 mi with 3.15 mi at bang on 7/m. Legs were OK but didn't want to do any more at that pace.
It does sound a shambles! The ironic thing is that as most people will run a bit extra over the course of a marathon from not keeping the racing line etc they probably have actually run the full marathon distance but now their times are wiped from the record!
Easy running here the past couple of days, 4 last night at an 8.28m/m average and then a slower 4.5 miles first thing this morning (at circa 8:43m/m average pace). rest day tomorrow, apart from the first cricket match of the season (no jokes about cricket being all just standing around anyway please
).
What a nightmare -it is every runners worst dream come true I really feel for everyone who ran this course in the 3 years!
WJH: I hope your brother will get his GFA place it is not his fault at all!!
Good luck and do we have some race numbers so we armchair supporters can follow you guys?
6 miles for me and again a faster run looks like running easy really works for me
Going long tomorrow 13 miles!
Miles makes smiles.
Progression
I can think of one other race local to near to me which on one year (possibly an exception) was short but noted by power of 10 as an official distance although did beat a pb from that race since.
Some decent running going on too all.
For my sins my number is 10066!
My club mate did Manchester last year and holds our club v45 Mara record. He said at the time he thought it was short.
It's crazy it's only now coming out. Re your brother wjh, did he enter this year then defer? If so he should be fine as he has paid and will basically not be entering next year off a gfa application.....i would think.
All the more reason to set the record straight Sunday.
I have had a low key week. Couple if runs Tuesday and Wednesday, massage yesterday and an easy session for 25 mins on bike and x trainer today follows by stretch and soak in the spa.
Conditions look near perfect for Sunday. My number I 14,467.
Hopefully bump into you again WJH. Not sure if I'll get to post later or tomorrow so good luck everyone.
Hope all goes to plan for all running London tomorrow! Looking forward to the reports! Enjoy the Red Lion, those participating!
I noticed the annual visit to Market Harborough, PRF! Not too far from where I was dragged up.
Made my own mistakes yesterday. 4 mile run: got a bit lost and ended up running some very steep ups and downs.
Parkrun today. Was expecting to have to take it easy - I've never run one the day after a training run - but felt pretty good from the off. Ended up breaking the 19 min mark! 18:57, very happy.
Think I'm going to aim high now: sub 18 mins by the end of the year. Need to think about signing up for a 10k as well. I've also just finished 'Feet in the Clouds' and I'm really keen to try some fell running - anyone tried it?
Let me just clear a few misconceptions up about course measurements etc:
The measurement itself is nothing to do with the race organisers - courses are measured by an independent organisation so the Manchester marathon organisers have done nothing wrong - they have paid for a measurement to take place and for the certification this allows, and have trusted that this measurement was correct. Also - courses only need to be measured every ten years, or each time there is a major change which cannot be accounted for by re-measuring in sections (for example, change to start and/or finish, or changes in road layout). By the sound of it after reading the statement by the measurement organisation, a measurer travelled to manchester to measure the route and used a calibration course already in existence. A bicycle wheel revolution counter is used to measure routes and the calibration course is there to determine how many revolutions there will be per mile/km. This calibration course was found to be a different length to what it should have been, which caused the discrepancy in the distance. This was evident as when the re-measurement took place, each mile marker was increasingly off from where it should have been. Now, we're talking mm's out here for the calibration course, but obviously this was enough to throw the measurement out. A short course prevention factor is built in to all measurements to avoid any course being short through unavoidable errors in the measurement (not riding a perfectly straight line or differing how you ride the main route vs the calibration course for example) however this will not always prevent mistakes from making the course short.
Basically - don't all boycott Manchester marathon just because the course was previously short, it wasn't their fault.
Anyway (sorry for that!) did parkrun this morning, legs were tired from the start due to this weeks training catching up but managed 20:28, 30 seconds quicker than last week and another course pb. I think sub-20 will be do-able soon, definitely achievable on fresher legs!
Another good luck to everyone running tomorrow, give us a wave - i'll be watching on the TV!
I can not find WJH on tracking think he miss typed his number!I have everyone else I am following up and ready.Right time for church then a quick 2 miles and back for the start
Miles makes smiles.
Progression
WJH's number worked for me! 10066
no idea why it would not work earlier but seems fine now!
Miles makes smiles.
Progression
So, well done to our Londoners! Looks as if you were cruising, PRF! Saw HO cross the line looking very relaxed, also!
Nice PB DT!
And interesting last few miles WJH!
Looking forwards to the reports!
Good to see wjh again. I've no idea what anyone else did. Hope Wjh didn't have a rough time.
Excellent DT great PB - sub 3 is there down the line for you. Couldn't believe bumping into you again before the start. Good to have a quick chat and sounds like you executed things really well.
As for my race, I was having arguably the race of my life up to about 20 miles. At about 19 miles I remember thinking how 7 miles mentally didn't sound too taxing and had found a sweet spot pace wise. Just before 20 miles I started to feel my right knee and just couldn't believe it and desperately hoped it would go. However, I felt myself over compensating and slowing down a little before it went completely at around 21 miles and wasn't able to lift my right leg. Knew I could shuffle home over the last 4 miles in 9 to 10 minute miles and the very frustrating thing was I still felt relatively fresh but could do nothing about it.
If it wasn't for that I think 3:13/3:14 could have been on as had some real momentum and fairly consistent pacing...no idea why the knee pain started but had the same problem in London ironically 6 years ago starting at almost exactly the same place. Although less fit and conditioned back then I shuffled in at 4:09. It also happened to both knees after half way at Brighton 2012 yet stupidly carried on. Today was 3:24 in the end...have never been so pissed off to want to cry simply because I was confident of continuing close to the same pace for most of the remainder but it wasn't to be. If anything I felt better compared to the equivalent latter miles of Manchester over the last few years which were fairly well executed marathons despite the distance issues.
Had no hint whatsoever of any knee issues in the run up but it could be that I have a biomechanical weakness (the left knee aches a bit in the same place too this evening)....it was how good I felt otherwise with was the hardest to take. Will do a full report over the next couple of days!
Thanks all for the support though! At least I feel relatively much fitter than I have done at any point over the last year and can hopefully build on that moving forward with some shorter stuff now. Will let the knees settle though to avoid any longer lasting injury issues which I had in the past so likely to take a full week off and assess things from there.
DT: well done on your race and PB
WJH: I am really sorry to hear about your race I thought something had gone on after 20 miles with your splits but you finished the race try to find some comfort in that.It does sound like you have a weakness in your leg if it was me I would go see your physio and see what they think what ever it is has not been resolved.
You need to get it sorted before you can embark on your next campaign
Chin up it could so easily have been a DNF
Miles makes smiles.
Progression
Well done folks, especially WJH for toughing it out! I was watching on the TV with the other half and we were both umming and arring about entering one to try and get a GFA place next year!
WJH & DT ... well done!!! 26.2 is such a strange beast of a distance ... you never know what's in store (apart from pain).
I felt your pain, WJH! Hope the knee gets sorted.
iower: the trouble with good for age is that it usually has to be achieved by early July, so not long to find a marathon and get the training in! July 9th was the deadline last year I believe.
Just over an hour done this morning off road with an M71 friend. Four seasons in one day again. Day 632 completed.
Ah ok, well we were thinking about one this autumn or next spring, on the basis we'd hopefully achieve it for London 2018 I guess.
DT - well done on the pb. You must be pleased. Do you think you will continue with the FIRST approach to training?
WJH - unlucky with the knee issues - as others have said, hope you can find a diagnosis for it and some treatment to help manage it in the future.
Did 9 miles late yesterday afternoon in 1:20:18, so just under 9m/m average which was ok.
DT - Congratulations on the PB.
WJH - Very frustrating but everyone has marathons where they feel that circumstances dealt them a very unfair hand on the day. Generally it is compensated by another one where everything clicks perfectly so fingers crossed that you get the deserved outcome in the not too distant future.
Alehouse - Where did you spot us, was this the red button coverage? The race itself was approached cautiously with the 50k and marathon from the last 4 weeks in the legs. Unfortunately, that really messed up the first half for me as I was effectively roadblocked by the large sub3 group until past 10 miles. I'm rubbish when I can't keep a consistent momentum going!
The 2nd half was much more enjoyable so ended up with a 2 minute + negative split - 1:29:25, 1:27:08 for 2:56:33. In 10 attemots at London the last 10 miles have never felt as good.
As for HO, quite an unusual day. She decided not to run 30 mins before the start but got next to no assistance from the marshalls in how best to travel to Westminster.....so ended up deciding to run anyway. 2:52 later she had finished 23rd female....
Well done, PRF! And no wonder it was enjoyable, you were jogging compared to the pace in Spain! And yes, it was on the red button. Saw HO, looking over-dressed and as if she was about to set off for a run, rather than having just finished! So, what's next?
Also, did you stay in Valencia? How did you get there? It is on my daughter's places to visit, and dad will have to go along too!
Good effort PRF
Eyeing up Abingdon Marathon now (what am I thinking?!)
I've always tended to run and do my own thing but perhaps it's now time to look at a training programme to see if that is of benefit. Certainly hasn't done DT or Dr Dan any harm in the case of FIRST!
Excellent run PRF...without really going full on by the sounds of it. And a very decent run by HO too. In hindsight perhaps a difference of 5 or 10 seconds a mile could have been the difference to finishing strongly but with two decent marathons thought the knee problems were in the distant past. I do have the appetite for committing to a high mileage training schedule for the next one I do so hopefully one day it will all come together for a much improved result! I'll leave it for at least 18 months though unless I do happen to have a change of heart! The good and bad ones in some also make for an interesting story if nothing else.
Heard a lot of positive stuff about Abingdon iower. A real no frills club runners type race. I'm actually thinking that an autumn marathon would be good to do at some stage....would make a difference to the dark winter nights of training for a spring one!
Very sad to hear about the runner passing away in the news. I'm pretty sure I limped past the poor chap who was on the other side of the road being treated to by Southwick (?) Bridge. Thought not much more of it as I saw him lifting his head up and moving....until today. Puts any relative dissapointment of yesterday in big context.
And at least the training has been a huge catalyst for trimming down and feeling back to previous peak fitness again. I'll now aim to shed a few more pounds after this week and aim to get some semi decent times recorded again at 5 and 10k. I was over 13 stone back in February which is embarrassing for my height as a regular runner but am currently around 12 stone 4. Will be looking to get under 12 over the next month or two and see what difference that will make.
Shame about the knee, WJH. However as we gave all seen, much worse can happen. I saw the same guy at the bridge. I think the lad that died was much much slower.
The thing with running at 3.08 is you see the wheels coming off people who are probably at my level but decided they had to go to sub 3. I still don't get why people think its worth a shot. You wouldn't try an run a half two minutes faster than your ability and expect it to end well, so why do people think they can shed 4-5 minutes in a marathon!?
I'm not really sure of my training plans in short term, Andrew. I plan to do Bristol half end of September. I think I will have nay and June just running easy and hilly with some regular mp tempos. Perhaps then pick up my FIRST half schedule 4 weeks in.
It's pretty likely that with a GFA I will do London again next year so come October id be wanting to gear my training towards being schedule ready for that.