The Middle Ground



  • Dr Dan : Great speed work session well done

    DT: That sounds like a great half marathon result 

    Andrew: Nice race report and glad all went to plan and no injuries.

    Today was a slow 8.6 miles so I am hoping tomorrow will be better as the miles get less I just want the race to happen so I can get back to normal.I

    I have a defered place for Weston Super Mare half which is 6th November which i had forgotten about it will be nice to finish my year on a highimage

    Live each day as if it was your last  give it all you have to reap the rewards.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    Andrew, yes my main target is supposed to be the Manchester half mid October. However I have picked up a free place at the Robin Hood in 3 weeks. If I can get what I want (sub 85) from that I will bin off Manchester as it was all a bit too much hard work sorting the logistics.

    Feel a little bit achy today, but nothing major. As an aside, in races beyond 10k I have always worn general training shoes (asics gt) and have always kept away from race shoes as I was concerned I would get injured. I recently bought the nike zoom streak (as worn by most the Olympic marathon field) and raced in them yesterday. Of course it is impossible to say what impact they had as i'll never know how long it would have taken in my asics, however it was much nicer and bouncier racing in something so much lighter.

  • Great HM DT. Looking very good for Nottingham!

    Andrew - that's a great parkrun. Welcome back! image

    WP - easy tiger! image

    Repeat of last week's "rest day" for me ... 21 miles on the bike plus 32 lengths front crawl. All part of the last minute revision for Sunday's Sprint Tri. Racing my son (it's his 18th) and he starts 1 min after me ... probably leave the pool together, so should be fun!! I think I'll destroy him on the run, so he has to make any gains early on. He's done hardly any training but is naturally fit ... it was the same last year and he still won. However, I'm much fitter and lighter and he hasn't has the baseline of PE at school this year, so I reckon it will all catch up with him on the run.image

  • Ground hog Day ... 21 miles on the bike plus half a mile of front crawl. Just two 10 mile runs to do Wed & Thurs, then Fri is just bike commuting before Saturday's Tri. May try to run 10 miles on Sunday too if the legs are OK, as off to Italy Mon-Fri where I will not be running but definitely carb-loading. Back on 16th and have a 1 mile track race on 17th ... and then a 10 mile race on Sunday 18th (Tadcaster - flat!!).

  • Can anyone explain the Run Britain SSS numbers to me please? They have got Saturday's parkrun at 2.2 which alledgedly makes it the second 'hardest' race I've ever done. This can't be right, as I didn't think it was that difficult a course. Also, what does the column which says 'vSSS' mean (my score from Saturday was 0.9).

    I know it isn't a very accurate was of assessing performance, but it would be interesting to at least understand the website, as I can't find a sensible explanation on the site!

    My handicap got down to 9.7 when I was pb'ing last September, fell to 12.8 over the last year but has picked up a little to 12.3 after the last two parkruns. I know even 9.7 isn't 'good' but what would a decent club runner expect to be able to get their handicap down to?

  • Also (sorry) on the right hand side it refers to Event Rankings and, for example, says for me parkrun 2016 and in the 'In UK' column it says 2.5%. What does that percentage refer to?

    On a different note, looking forward to watching the GNR on Sunday and hoping to see Mo get the hat-trick of wins there.

  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    Andrew the sss is the difficulty rating of the event and is based on how everyone else performed compared to their handicap. My local parkrun is usually 1.0, however I did it on a day when it was its 3rd birthday and everyone else was having a laugh and it got a 2.6 as lot's of runners ran below their ability.

    The vsss is how your own performance ranked. RB know that with your handicap you should perform on a course that gets a 1.0 at a certain level. If you perform much higher than that your performance rating is a minus figure. If you performed adequately it will be 0-0 and then if you underperformed you will get a positive figure.

    My race on sunday was given a 1.2 difficulty, however my performance was -1.0 which means I overperformed. I can see that is the case simply by looking around the results. Runners at my level were a good minute or so behind me.

    Additionally, if there are not enough registered RB runners in a race for it to obtain clear data RB will allocate a default difficulty rating of 1.0.

    The percentage figure is the the percentage where you sit in the county for that distance.

    Your top 5 performances at any time count towards your handicap and over time the value to your handicap of a race result will diminish. The shorter distances lose value quickest. The more you race the better your handicap. I know people with times below mine, but they do parkrun every week and so their handicap is higher.

    Also read the below-

  • DT - thanks, that makes more sense. So parkrun on Saturday could have got a (relatively) higher SSS because there were a lot more people there than normal (all the semi-serious, 40 minute runners back from holiday - I heard two people behind me in the queue for barcode scanning referring to this) which maybe made the median performance slower than previously (similar to your 3rd birthday example)?

    Seems to be so many variables in how they measure race difficulties and performances that it is a bit of an inaccurate tool (although I suppose the same weaknesses apply to everyone, so at least the rankings and handicap figures do apply equally to all).

    Still don't understand the % bit though - surely with a time of 22.16 I cannot possibly be either in the top 2.5% or bottom 2.5% in the county/country?? I would have though (based on my average finishing position compared to number of runners, that I should be in about the top 15-20% of all parkrunners? ie. most times I come in the top 15-20% of finishers at the particular parkrun)

  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    Sometimes you win and other times lose, but it is consistent to all runners in that race. For an example, the Coventry half marathon is a pretty hard course however it is the first big half marathon of the spring and so a lot of people might not have raced in a while, base training, improved over winter. This year it's difficulty rating was -0.1 which absolutely no way reflects the difficulty of that course. However over winter with less racing, handicaps drop and therefore everyone does much better than their handicap says they can.

    My parkrun this year is 0.5% so it is equally difficult to see how I can be in that area as I would usually finish say 10th out of 400 so 2.5%. What then makes it even stranger is that a lot of slower runners will not be registered on rb so you discount them from the % and most of them are people you would have beaten.

    It isn't a foolproof system but it is a decent guide of improvement. My handicap has just moved to 4.5, it's highest ever level and in the last 2 months I have pb'd in 5k, 10k and 5 miles and run a close to pb time on difficult half course.

  • Well tapering going as only tapering can........4 miles tomorrow and that is it before race but legs feel heavy I just hope all is okay on the day!


    Dr Dan good luck to you and son for the triimage

    Live each day as if it was your last  give it all you have to reap the rewards.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    Good luck, WP. I would be inclined to throw a few strides into that run just to wake the legs up a little.

  • Thanks DT all week I have tried to run the last mile faster except last 2 days as last mile was uphill but tomorrow will include the strides they need to be woken up big time!

    Live each day as if it was your last  give it all you have to reap the rewards.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    my last run like that, I would tend to do one at the end of each mile for 30-40 seconds.

  • My legs were shocking yesterday and today ... maybe the extra cycling has killed them off. Ran home (9.1 miles) in hot conditions but struggled to hit 9m/m and had to cut the run short to make sure I got to out-of-school club before closing time (supposed to be 10 miles). No better this morning on the return leg (11.3 miles)... just a slow plod. Ankle is grumbling too! However, only Saturday's 5K at the end of the Tri between now and 16th, so plenty of time to recover.

  • Good luck for the weekend WP and Dan image

    Dan - could just be the heat and humidity yesterday that did you?

    As for me, a 5 mile run including two at tempo yesterday straight from work. Felt horrible in the humidity and the tempo came out about 20 seconds a mile slower than planned, but I think the conditions had more than a small hand in that. Hoping for better tomorrow, but for the meantime I am enjoying a rest day today.

  • I have run 4.18 miles this morning and the fast legs came to the party -yay a pb for course and the last 0.18 was in the 7's I am not getting carried away as the 0.18 is downhillimage but very pleased with my run especially as a hilly route.

    Dan: I Hope your legs feel better today?

    Andrew: I run so much slower in humidity so I am sure that is what happened.Good luck for today's run.

    Rest day tomorrow and that is it for me I can not believe this block of training has gone so well first time this year!! So that leaves tomorrow to paint my nails(always before a race) and watch Rocky 1 my pre race movieimage

    Live each day as if it was your last  give it all you have to reap the rewards.
  • Tumble weed moment

    Dan: how was the tri at the weekend?

    Andrew: How is training?

    DT: Any races coming up?

    I am pleased to say in my own little way I did good last year 2.14.53  and been injured for every other half but Sunday I managed a 1.59.45 I never thought I would get under 2 hours again last time is 2007 my pb is 1.48 so I am hoping to get close to it if I canimage


    10 k on Sunday so just ticking over no run yesterday as legs were dead but just back from 4 miles and it went better than I thought especially as quads are a littlle tender.

    Live each day as if it was your last  give it all you have to reap the rewards.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    Hi wp, that's great stuff. If you can keep training consistently then that will start coming down to 1.48 in time.

    I am in race season now. I have the Worcester 10k sunday, the Robin Hood half a week sunday and then another local 10k on 09th October, which was my pb course until recently.

    I wasn't going to taper back this week, however Sunday I did 12 miles at hmp plus 30 seconds per mile and I just felt shattered. Decided there is more to gain now by pulling back, especially with the temperatures over next few days. So just some easy running and strides and a bit of cycling. Have a sports massage this afternoon as well which Im looking forward to.

  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    Anyone about?

    Massage and taper have led to me feeling like i've stiffened up. Planning a gentle 4 miles on the flat at lunchtime and rest day tomorrow. Conditions on sunday look almost perfect for a race.

  • Morning DTimage

    You have a lot of races planned so hope all comes good.

    I think taper always makes you feel stiff or wooden in the legs good luck with the 4 miles.

    I have run 4,6,6 and 4 miles this morning which I ran fast and got a PB for course it really was a good run rest day also tomorrow and 10k on Sunday mine is a 1pm start I would rather a 9am start so will go and do my best last year 58 ish minutes I want sub 55 this year I don't train for it especially as half last weekend but it at least shows I have improved.

    Then a half in November last race for me  it is one I deferred last year Weston Super Mare would be great to improve slightly on last weekends time but anything sub 2 hours I will be pleased with.

    Good luck for Sunday!!

    I am off to go collect race top it is random we have to collect before race!

    Live each day as if it was your last  give it all you have to reap the rewards.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    Hope you want well, WP.

    38.48 today for a 17 second pb which I didn't think would be feasible. Felt like it over cooked first two miles and was expecting to crash in second half but held it steady. Bodes well for sub 85 attempt next Sunday in Nottingham. will be anxiously eyeing the forecast all week and hope it is still. 

  • What a good result DT you must be so pleased and good luck for Nottingham next week!

    My race is 1pm start and it was hot I hate hot jogged 2 miles to prom them walked 1.5 miles to start first half was good then 4+5 were slower I went out hoping for 53 mins but was not to be I managed 54.45image

    Live each day as if it was your last  give it all you have to reap the rewards.
  • Well done, WP and DT! And I notice a decent 10 mile effort from PRF (and HO of course!)!

    PRF, if you are reading...Ron's birthday race on Thursday?

    A few niggles here, so have backed off a little. Up to day 778 though.

    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • WardiWardi ✭✭✭

    Nice to meet Dan at the rejuvenated Tadcaster 10 today along with PRF & Hannah.  I treated it as a 7.30 ish MP run with York marathon coming up - 75:05 was close enough for a cigar.   Dan didn't have quite the race he wanted but it serves him right for blasting a mile race yesterday image

    Well raced DT19, sub 39 is something I only managed a handful of times.

    Good effort WP, it did get warmer as the day went on so you did well to tough it out that close to your target.

    Alehouse.. the start today was only about 200m from my house so I acted as pub guide for the day.  Suggested a pub on the east side with seating outside so PRF & Hannah's dog Arth could enjoy the sun while we slaked our thirsts post race image

  • Alehouse - Would like to do Ron's race again but I think the timing is going to be a bit tricky with a 6:30 start!

    It was a bit hot in Wardi's back yard today for the Tadcaster 10. The race hasn't been run for the last 20 years but nonetheless it was quite surprising how many of the just over 300 runners today seemed to have taken part in the last event in the 90s.

    It seemed to work quite well untill a lack of clear signage/marshalling in the last mile, in fact if you couldn't see the runner in front it would be fair to call it chaotic.

    It worked out well as a race though and although both HO and myself had gun times of 1:01:18 and chip times of 1:01:12 we didn't run round together, it just seemed that our races coincided just before the finish image

    As for Dr Dan, a mile PB not much more than 12 hours earlier for a 50 year old elderly gentleman was probably a less than optimal build up for a hot 10 miler. Still, the excellently styled moustache held up well.......





  • imageimage

    Well done DT - fab time!!!image

    WP - good effort in the heat!

    Good to cross paths with Wardi and PRF on Sundayimage who both had good runs ... prf and HO finishing in a dead heat again! After last week's Tri (which went well ... 6 min faster than last year with 21:21 for the off-road 5K), I spent 5 days in Tuscany drinking too much Italian beer and wine ... got back late Friday. As mentioned above, Saturday pm was a 1 mile track race - I came last in my heat but in 5:55 which is my first sub-6 (happy but would have been better if folk were more honest about their predicted times so the right people were in the right heats). I didn't think Sunday morning's 10 miler would be affected but my hamstrings were tight throughout the warm-up and race. Recent parkrun suggested 6:56/mi was possible ... I maintained that for 7-8 miles and felt OK, but started to slow  before 8 and then at 8.5 both my knees seized up with some pretty intense pain on the outsides ... I hobbled in some discomfort to the finish in 72:31, a full 3 minutes down on April's 10 miler (despite being 10 s faster at parkrun). Not worried at this stage as think the reasons are pretty obvious. Need a few good weeks now. The good news is that my daughter's swimming lessons have moved so that I can now parkrun regularly ... I think I'll drop my intervals and parkrun instead.

    So, current week will now be 50 miles bike commuting plus:

    Mon - MP/LT session
    Wed evening - medium long run home
    Thurs morning - un-fuelled long run to work
    Sat - parkrun


  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    Excellent news on the mile on, Dr Dan. It's no surprise all in that it didn't quite go to plan Sunday.

    Hardluck, WP. The sun came out here in the last mile or so on Sunday and I was glad to be finishing. 

    I'm feeling a bit lost again this week in terms of training. I need to get this week over so I can log some base miles without worrying about taper. Still not sure what might be feasible Sunday. I think a conversion of 10kp plus 15 seconds per mile is realistic, particularly as I've trained specifically for half distance. That would do me nicely. 

  • Also feling a bit lost on training ... races and holidays have screwed the routine!

    A grim 9 mile run home last night and and even grimmer 16 mile run back this morning. No carbs since Monday (and even then only modest) so I really was on empty and it felt it... although I think it's Sunday's race that I'm still feeling rather than lack on energy. Only have time for one or two more of these doubles ... seriously worried about this marathon as it seems weird to be doing such low mileage.

  • Sorry to hear you both are feeling lost with training DT and Dr Dan

    Wardi Lovely to see you it must be years since you post on DTT but all sounds like it is good with youimage

    I have planned my training for next Half Marathon this week is easy as had those 2 races in 7 days which seems to be working I am itching to start back on Monday to proper training so just 4,6,6 milers this week as I was ill yesterday but back on it todayimage

    But it is so cold first thing thinking i need gloves for my poor hands.

    Live each day as if it was your last  give it all you have to reap the rewards.
  • WardiWardi ✭✭✭

    Hello again WP!  Older & slower here but still enjoying it and over a year since last niggle/injury so all is well.  York Marathon in 2 & a bit weeks which I can catch a bus to so a cheap day out for me image

    I suffer from Raynauds in my fingers/hands so it's gloves for me once the temp drops below 10 degrees.

    4m + 8m today.

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