The Middle Ground



  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭

    XC ... ugggh. I really hate XC.

    Yep, supposed to read 13.1 miles at MP-14s. image

  • Andrew: Yes I had 2 random knee injuries for the first 6 months, but it shows if you are determind you can come back consistancy is the key I can not do speed work but it shows there are other ways to train as one gets older or after injury.


    I used to love XC again another thing I can not do anymoreimage

    Dr Dan: good luck with last few weeks is it a marathon?

    Good luck with your comeback

    I had a fall Tuesday whilst walking I went down hard but after resting yesterday I ran 7.5 today still very sore , achy and bruised but you can not keep me down only this week and next week before tapering. get the race out of the way then Winter training-Yay

    Live each day as if it was your last  give it all you have to reap the rewards.
  • MYOX: Knees are strange things they give no problem then give you grief I really hope you can be injury free soon.

    I am no good as far too slow to warrant giving you advice but I am sure the speedy guys willimage

    Live each day as if it was your last  give it all you have to reap the rewards.
  • I know over the winter I am going to work on my cadence as when I do practice on an uphill I manage it a lot faster than normal.i do have a little  gadget I can practice with forgotten what it is called.

    Live each day as if it was your last  give it all you have to reap the rewards.
  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭

    Hope you're recovering from the fall WP.

    Yes, it's the Abingdon marathon in 9 daysimage.

    Wed/Thurs were both 8 miles at easy pace ... will parkrun tomorrow.

    16 week average mileage is only 30-31 miles per week, with an additional 36 miles per week on the bike. Comparing to previous years...

    Abo 2013 = 38-39 mpw run, 13 mpw bike ... 3:38 finish

    London 2014 = 44-45 mpw run, no cycling ... 3:37 finish

    Notts 2014 = 40-41 mpw run, 28 mpw cycling ... 3:35 finish

    I died off in all these marathons on the final 3-6 miles. This time I am clearly down on running mileage which is a worry (but I have increased my cycling, although not greatly compared with Notts). This time I am a bit lighter and I have directly concentrated on "metabolic training" to reduce my carb dependence. We shall see.

  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭

    Dan - I am in no way a marathon expert, but perhaps the answer is to accept that you have a lower mileage in training and therefore approach the first half (?) of the marathon with suitable caution pacewise so as to try and avert the tail off at the end?

    WP - good luck with the taper image

    DT - you've had a real breakthrough year by the sounds of it. I remember a year or so ago you were very forlorn about your running, so it is great to hear that things have clicked and a 'jump' in performance has been made this year!


  • MYOXMYOX ✭✭✭
    Thanks all for the advice. Consistency is quite tricky to define, though: would you say consistent mileage is more important than pace, for instance? Or is time on your feet more important than either?

    WP: definitely a lot to learn from you on the above too! Thanks for your comments.

    I ran 8 miles averaging 7:17 pace yesterday. I think that's really too fast for my longer runs, just a bit too tiring; really not sure how to judge 'easy'.
  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭

    MYOX - the classic judge of an easy paced run is: could you maintain a conversation with a running partner without struggling for breath?

  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭

    Also to say, I think a long run should feel tiring once you've finished, but shouldn't leave you feeling too wiped out.

  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭

    MYOX - consistent number of runs of consistent mileage over a decent period of time. Run regularly and run far enough to stimulate adaptation.

    Andrew - the experiment is to test whether the metabolic training is effective ... so I need to run at 3:30 pace and see if I get there!

  • WardiWardi ✭✭✭

    Alehouse.. just seen your post sorry.  PRF ran the 10 miler & Hannah ran a tempo stylee 3.12.  A modest 3.36 for me which was a bit down on target, but I always seem to run circa 5 mins quicker in the spring marathons so I'll take it.  Nice event York, actually enjoyed it in perfect conditions.  Looking at Rotterdam in April for the next one.

    All the best for Abo Dr Dan, at least I've given you a soft target. image

  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭

    "Soft" for you Wardi ... "Usual" for me. image

  • MYOXMYOX ✭✭✭
    Parkrun in 19:03 today. A bit disappointed, I'd have liked to have run faster bit completely misjudged my pace.

    Trying to gauge a suitable target for the 10k on the 30th. Currently not sure how realistic sub 40 is.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    myox, based on that parkrun, if you pace sensibly I think you should be closer to 39.30 (at least I would expect to be).

    First xc race today in nearly 2 years. Beautiful day, right down deep in the Cotswolds. 5.5 miles two lap course. Ground was firm so wore trail shoes. Each lap had 5 big climbs which in the end I had to walk run. There was about 370 foot of climbing so quite a lot. Think I was 6th scorer for us and 2nd in vet team. 

  • MYOXMYOX ✭✭✭
    9.9 hilly miles today (927ft elevation) out from Sheffield into the Peak and back. 8:07 pace overall. Was trying not to push, felt great. One of those runs where I was looking for excuses to keep going, rather than to stop!

    27 miles this week. Aiming for at least 20 p/week until the end of the year.
  • MYOXMYOX ✭✭✭
    Nice one on the XC, DT. I've never tried it but sounds fun to me!

    I'll aim for 39:30 in the 10k. Frankly I've no idea what will happen: there's not much flat in the course; it's a 10k loop with a slight incline on the way out and then a decline on the way in. Could easily pace it incorrectly. We'll just have to see what happens on the day!
  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭

    Good luck with the 10K MYOX and well done on the week's training.

    DT - well done ... sounds like my sort of hell.


    20:49 parkrun on Saturday ... didn't have the legs to push. I think my fast Saturday runs (sub-20 parkrun and sub-6 1 mile) have both been when I have not cycled on Thurs/Friday, so perhaps there's a lesson in there somewhere.

    Penultimate run for me this morning ... 10.45 miles with 8 at MP (77%maxHR). Happy with the heart rate at that pace but just not convinced I will have the stamina (unless my carb-starved runs actually worked).

    1, 8:01, 134/139 bpm
    2, 7:59, 136/140
    3, 8:03, 136/142
    4, 7:59, 136/140
    5, 7:57, 136/141
    6, 8:00, 133/137
    7, 7:51, 137/141
    8, 8:01, 136/139

  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭

    And today was 3.6 miles with 4 x 400m off 90s rests ... averaged 1:23 per 400m. That's it, apart from about 15 miles of remaining bikes commutes (although I will get bus on Friday).


    In other news ... I got luck and drew one of the two club places for VLM 2017. Very chuffed!image

  • Hope all goes well on Sunday, Dr.D. Nice and steady! Will be interested to hear what you think about the carb experiment!

    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • Firstly just want to say good luck Dr. D

    The thread has actually been super useful, I've had a similar predicament as mentioned above - how to meal plan pre race and post race recovery. Leading up to the morning of the race I get terribly nervous image I'm on here to see if other athletes include a balti as part of their training programme. I read on a thread someone suggested eating a f*cking sandwich en route, clearly thinking of themselves as a bit of a clown. What would you guys suggest as a meal plan before, during and after the race?

    Thanks in advance.




  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭

    Thanks Alehouse - the experiment would have been better if I'd kept the mileage higher... two confounding variables will make the outcome harder to interpret (unless it goes well, then I guess it has to be the metabolic training). Talking of which ... I am now eating plenty of carbs - started 15 min after those 400m intervalsimage.


    PeterRabbit ... my approach this year has been to train mostly under low carb conditions (esp long runs) but race under high carb conditions. Go easy on the Balti. image

  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    Well done on London ppmace, Dr Dan and good luck Sunday.

    When is your 10k, Myox?

    I'm just taking it easy for a bit now with shorter easy runs. I'm also doing a weekly 15 miler. My plan is this side of Christmas to run all 5 xc races there are and get 15 miles as a reasonably normal distance as a platform for my London marathon schedule. 

  • I think that is sensible, DT, although I would try to keep another weekly mid-length run at around 2/3 to 3/4 of your long run ready to build this when you move into the new schedule, so around 10 miles at present. I believe it is that second longer run that will make all the difference!

    Have a good one Dan!

    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    Yes last year I followed my scedule but added in a weekly easy 5 miler. I found the scheduler last time quite straightforward so plan this time is to make that 5 a 10. It's only 5 more a week but I think the additional stress of changing a 5 mile recovery into a 10 mile aerobic should have a reasonable impact. 

  • MYOXMYOX ✭✭✭

    Good luck for Sunday, Dr Dan.

    DT: It's the Sheffield 10k, next Sunday. Feel in fairly good shape but it's hard to judge. Will be a little disappointed if I don't dip under 40, but to be fair I could easily be overestimating my chances.

    8 hilly miles today - 800ft up on the way out, then back down. I'm just carrying my mobile around with me at the moment*, and Strava's completely cocking up the distance/pace stats, but did it in 1hr 3mins. A bit too fast really. May run the same thing but slower on Sunday.

    This is probably my most sustained period of running now - 73 miles in the last 4 weeks - and really need to maintain it over the winter. The aim is to get fit for some fell races: anyone got any tips for my first one?

    *Honestly not sure which GPS watch to buy. Don't want to spend more than 150 pounds, tops.


  • Dr Dan: Race strong on sunday and the best of luck!!


    MYOX: You can not go wrong with a garmin there are lots of newer models that do all sorts of things but I like the 310xt has a long battery life and pretty accurate.Great job on your milesimage

    I have a virus came on Tuesday as my pace on my run was about 2 minutes slower per mile so i knew the signs and yes woke up Wednesday with it not run since and only went for 30 min walk yesterday which wiped me out so the plan is Monday back to running-which once again puts my November half out of the window as on the 6th I should learn my lesson I always get ill late October last year it was Cardiff and WsM that I never made due to virus! I take multi vit  and zinc all year around.

    Good luck to any racers or parkrunners todayimage

    Live each day as if it was your last  give it all you have to reap the rewards.
  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭

    Myox - good luck in the 10k. Knowing Sheffield a bit, I suspect the race may be quite hilly!

    WP - be careful with training too much if you do have a virus, better to err on the side of caution.

  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭

    Thanks for the good wishes! I held 7:56/m all the way to 22 miles (10 in 1:19:20; 20 in 2:38:42, 22 in 2:54:26) but then quite quickly the fatigue set in. Final 4.2 miles were at 8:43/m. However, this was much more of a "fatigue" feel than "The Wall". Just needed more mileage in my legs! I managed 3:31:02 in the end, which is a PBimage (1:42 faster than PB set in Chester in 2011),  over 7 min faster than Abingdon 2013 and over 4 minutes faster than any of the 3 marathons I ran in 2014. So pretty happy, although I really should be much faster than this. I think the low-carb approach to my long runs is really good for me ... just need to combine it with higher mileage.

  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭

    Dan - well done on the pb! Sounds like a very promising result, taking into account the less than optimal mileage. Bodes well for much quicker in the future.


  • Well done Dan! You are obviously correct about the lack of miles though! Hope you can remedy this during your London campaign.

    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
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