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The Middle Ground
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Curly, climbing Cabot Tower is often like trying to get back out of a snake when there's an egg coming the other way. The stairs are wide enough for one of your legs, and anyone coming the other way has to use the dangling leg as an impromptu ladder. But there is a definite DOMS-like ache that arises some time after doing it. The really strange thing about the tower though, and I don't know if you can remember this, is that it is surrounded by sneaky little paths and lots of foliage, which is the natural habitat of the lesser lunching student. It's strange how oddly sweet it smells as you walk around it.
Dr. D, like you say, you have your bike miles. It's good to hear you're less injury prone because of them. Andrew, you need knees. Be careful! I don't have any. Well, not properly working ones, anyway.
Push ups hurt your chest the day after. Either that or this cold has gone bronchial... What happened to RW Forums whilst I was mostly absent? The Clubhouse used to move at such a pace it was impossible to keep up!
Curly, bad luck at xc on weekend on a personal level.
I've just about recovered from ours, just in time for my next dose of it on Saturday.
Hope the knee stood up to a run tonight, Andrew?
Good mileage and session, Myox. If you could retain that consistently all year, you'll do well.
Good session Dr Dan. I had 2 x 1200 and 3 x800 tonight. The 1200s were in 4 min 10 and 800s 2.44. Not sure what pace that is mm. They felt hard by the end but then I looked back to same session last year and the 1200s were 6 seconds faster than same session for same effort by hr. It doesn't sound much but 6 seconds per 1200 is nearly a minute faster over 10k.
Rest tomorrow which appears just as well with the weather forecast.
DT - a 6s improvement per 1200m is nice
. I'm hoping to see some better intervals in the next couple of weeks as I will be re-introducing some strategic carbs before hand (I think I'm as fat-adapted as I'm going to be now, but worry that I'm compromising the harder sessions). Apparently "carb periodisation" is where it's at.
10 miles of run commuting yesterday (too windy for bike) and the same again today (as it might get snowy later).
DT - yes, the knee was fine during a 4 miler last night at 9min pace thanks.
Curly - not had a sports massage, but it is something that I have considered for some time and have looked into the local options.
CBA reading back. Anyone got any goals? Mine is the North Face of the Foglietta in February half term. No running involved, but I have to be fit enough for a 90-120min trudging ascent in deep snow, in full kit carrying a snowboard. The downhill bit is easy by comparison. Should I carb-load?
End of week report - managed to get through 17 miles last week, which is the most I've done in a week since the beginning of September and did a long run of 5.5 miles yesterday evening which is the longest single run since 24 August. I just need to keep building it up, week on week.
I did a 22 miler at 7.39 pace Saturday then drank beer. That sort of wrote off my chances of getting anything from Sunday. Managed a 4 mile recovery at 9mm pace at end of the day.
With the 22, in myself it felt comfortable however last 3 miles my hamstrings were very tight and sore. I never used to get this but seem to all the time now when I run over 10 miles. Anyone have any thoughts on whether my hamstrings need some isolated strength work as they are weak, or other muscles are weak so hamstrings are doing all the work?
Dr. D, fat adapted can be Queen aswell! (On behalf of all those overly PC types.)
Andrew, you ran more miles than I did.
DT19, never experienced that after so much distance. I definitely experienced tight hams just after beginning runs. Because it's after that much distance I'd tend to put it down to fatigue, and, in my case, probably run three miles less.
I finished my first week of the 100 push-ups challenge. It hurt. Intriguing how it's an endurance challenge but it begins with strength work and doesn't move into stamina work until near the end. For that reason I'm fascinated to see how it works out. Also worth noting that it doesn't ask you to ever 'run' more than about 50% of the total in one go - I think 60% is the max and that only once before 'race day'.
DT ... impressive distance! Is that in the London schedule or was it spontaneous?
Following last week's extra 2 days of run commuting, I skipped parkrun and cut down Sunday's planned 15 to 13.1 (I did the Leeds HM route). 49 for the week but only 22 on the bike.
I used to do a lot of press ups and was quite good at then. My starting point last week was 30.
Dr Dan, schedule was 20 but it was one of those days when I was enjoying myself so kept going. My aim is to run a 20 and a 22 each month over January-March.
Consistent consistency so far this year, Andrew! And that's what reaps dividends! I would try to increase the distance slightly each week, and then have a cut back week every four or five weeks. And don't neglect the core!
DT: I think you may be right when you suspect that the hamstrings may be doing too much work. I am having a similar issue albeit at much lower distances and particularly when going uphill. Physio said improve strength in the glutes, through squats in particular. One day I'll take notice of her and do some! Am doing a little work on hamstrings, Achilles/calf...and stomach though.
DT: many people like to see at least 5 runs over 20 before London! Any races planned?
Today was a pleasant 66 minutes which takes me up to day 898.
Yes, I think I need to do some squats.
Last year I did 5 x 20 and 2 x 22. I am goingg to end up with 6 long ones this time by looks so 3 of each is the plan.
I have entered a local half first weekend if March, mainly because it is county half champs and being an m40 now I may well pick something up, plus it's too local to pass over. I also have entered the Ashby 20 two weeks later. I'll then find a 10k and parkrun in April.
Sounds good, DT! Will you race Ashby? A lot seem to use it a hard training run eg 8 or 10 steady and then the rest at marathon pace.
not race it but will run it at a consistent pace like i plan London at Mara pace plus around 15 seconds per mile. It's far enough out from London to absorb. I did Gloucester 20 Last year at around 7.10 pace and gave me a decent phycholigical boost as got around almost comfortably and didn't affect any training.
Quieter last week for me: just under than 20 miles.
5 miles today - long hill sprints. Very painful. 4 reps of 60 plus secs on a 10% gradient. I guess that's not necessarily the best training in the long run, but I've got a fell race on the 29th (Tigger Tor) and I want to feel the burn beforehand.
At 57 miles for the year - believe it or not, that's already about 1/7th of last year's total. Running more slowly is going to pay off, I think.
Good long runs, everyone! Glad to hear that you're managing to run more consistently / further, AndrewD.
Fell racing. Ouch. Was there a reason you only did about 400 miles last year, MYOX? (I didn't read back everything.)
Didn't there used to be a way you could jump to a page in the thread? Talk about out of practice...(Edit: you put it into the URL!)
Push ups still going! Chest still aching. Now going to add squats because everyone's mentioned it. I learned to squat properly last year, and progressed to some reasonable weights (reasonable for a 10 year old). This will be volume rather than weight though. A whole different ache!
Looking good for VLM DT.
Ratzer - my guilt of not doing any RT is building.
MYOX - good progress. Slower = more volume = more fitness.
Alehouse. Happy 900 (I assume)!
Mon-Wed is bike commuting. Only running so far was Tuesday's 5 x 1000m intervals ... it went OK but when I looked back at the numbers, my HR was much higher than similar sessions last year. I think I'll have to return to my strategic carb loading again ... I've been super-strict with LCHF nutrition since November (apart from Xmas) and I'm probably pretty much there with the fat-adaptation, which should really help my fuel utilisation at longer distances. But you cannot escape the biochemistry ... fat uses more oxygen to produce the same amount ATP compared with carbs, so at higher aerobic intensities I'm bound to be less efficient. I don't want to lose my ability to utilise carbs at these intensities, so probably sensible to train accordingly (i.e. carb-up before Tues intervals and Saturday parkruns ... carb-deplete for Thursday double commutes and Sunday long runs).
Indeed, it was happy 900 DrDan! Thanks for noting! I only remembered part way through my session (and session is a very rare word for me to use!). warm up, 4 x 3 mins with 90 seconds recovery. Am going to try to get something similar in most weeks, as long as I feel fresh enough to do it. Off road on slightly undulating cinder paths. I will continue to eat and drink what I want though!
Ratzer: I'm going for the 100 sit ups. Can't do press ups properly after two shoulder breaks. Perhaps I should try.
Oo, yes, happy 900 alehouse! Glad to get you on the bandwagon for the 100's!
I thought about the sit-ups but decided that push-ups are just planks with benefits. As it's getting on for ten minutes already (tomorrow's set is 90s rests) I figured I didn't want to add so much exercise that I couldn't fit it in and would therefore give up too soon. It's hard enough already with the house puppy always interested in what I'm up to!
Science the sh1t out of this, Dr.D, you know I would. Parkrun, 20ish mins, about 250 kcal? Eat a snickers with breakfast. Ready carbs and all gone by the end of the race. Plus, snickers contains nuts, so one of your five a day.
I spent most of today daydreaming about starting running again. To blame was the fact I started reading this thread back from the bottom of 868.
http://openskyfitness.com/zach-bitter-ep-130/
I like what he said recently "LCHF is a tool, not the entire tool box". It's a tool I need to fix my carb-dependence ... but I need to keep in mind that there's more than just this to consider.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1113/JP273230/abstract
The lead author has a good podcast interview here:
http://linkis.com/scienceofultra.com/wiIGp
Also, LCHF using Zach Bitter (100K US champ) uses strategic carbs too ...
http://openskyfitness.com/zach-bitter-ep-130/
I like what he said recently "LCHF is a tool, not the entire tool box". It's a tool I need to fix my carb-dependence ... but I need to keep in mind that there's more than just this to consider.
I actually looked back at some of the runs I was doing in my first month and they are completely stupid: my second ever run was a 30 min 4.3 miler, for instance, with no warm up. What a plonker. I moaned to all and sundry about always feeling injured as well.
Happy 900, Alehouse.
Myox, it is a classic error. It is particularly apparent in already for people whose idea of what a good session is based upon the hammering in football training in their 20s. I am forever jumping into conversations on my local parkrun pace where new runners are being encouraged to enter marathons and hammer runs. In my early days everything was done at 7mm pace.
On that point, 10 miles tonight at 8.30 mm. Almost effortless and right at bottom of recovery hr. A far cry from what I used to do.
I am having a minor op Friday morning to cauterize my nasal blood vessels. Means about 14 days off training and a week off work. I plan to use to my advantage by catching up on lots of sleep and back issues of runners world. It may do me some good moving into peak Mara training months.
It's so ironic, isn't it, that 800m and 1500m athletes will have months of 80-120 mile weeks in the bank, yet well meaning individuals and media will tell new runners to get into a marathon on a base of winter season sprint training.
Two weeks off, DT19? I'd go away to the sun, but sleep comes a close second.
That was an interesting experiment, Dr.D. It emphasises the impact on the bodily systems of forcing them to work to make energy available, which ultimately makes those systems more efficient, and contrasts that with the ease of supplying the energy ready made, which reduces the workload imposed on the body whilst performing. Train Low, Race High has been mentioned many times before, certainly in MG since prf ran that sub-3 mara on stretching his unfuelled long runs. What seems to be extra here though is that switching to LCHF improves your efficiency almost without the mileage - I'd be interested in a control experiment to see how various training amounts impact efficiency when on the same LCHF diet.
Sugar. There's a message always seems to appear from amongst low carb advocates that prehistoric man ran everywhere fuelled by mammoth steaks. Amongst the many things we haven't got a clue about pre-historic man, one assumption that's remained fairly constant is that we were hunter-gatherers and one fairly well supported theory is that our diets were eclectic, pretty much anything we could find as long as it had the energy output to keep us alive and reproducing. We would have eaten high carb veg when possible, simple carb fruit in season, and no doubt honey when we could find it before the bears. Sure, we didn't refine sugar and bake with it, but humans didn't avoid carbs when they were in stock. Now that we have the luxury of selecting our diet, I think the idea of looking at various foods as 'tools' for what we want to achieve is actually a very healthy one!
It makes sense to me that LCHF will switch on fat burning, even without exercise, and that will then help adaptations during exercise. But that won't make you fit.
Sugar. Yep, agree, humans didn't avoid carbs when they were in stock! And I find it hard to believe that we have such a sophisticated glucose homoeostasis system unless we are meant to consume carbs. But I have found that can quite happily tick over in ketosis, and I think that is also a natural state, and certainly much more natural than the biochemistry text books suggest (i.e. it is not a "starvation" state). As hunter-gatherers we would have had access to anything available but there was certainly a lot less sweet stuff available then (never mind the refined carbage we have now, even fruits and root vegetables would have been a lot less sweet/starchy and alot more fibrous compared with modern farmed varieties). And we would have been glycogen-depleted much more often since we had to "hunt and gather". The modern day continual bombardment of our bodies with carbs, alongside sedentary life-styles, means we are much more often in a glycogen-full state, and the excess over-flow puts a massive strain on our metabolic health.
So, whether or not this LCHF approach ultimately improves my marathon times, it has certainly woken me up to thinking about these things ... and a welcome side-effect is that I have been weight-stable for a year at my lowest weight since student days.
And Jurgen agrees ...
You'll have to excuse my ignorance of the nutrition stuff, it's way beyond my knowledge base.
Ratzer, that would be lovely but kids have school and wife has work. I will just hang around in pyjamas all day. One of the post op instructions is no hot showers or baths so I may just become unclean.
Anyway, I rounded my training off today with 6 miles at Long Tempo pace (Dr Dan will know what I mean). Target was 6.37 and circa 165 hr. Was a very enjoyable run coming in at 6.34 for 163. 6 weeks ago I was doing 5 miles at Mara pace on the same route at 6.46 for same HR. Almost a shame to have to sign off for a couple of weeks.
Hope the op goes well, DT! I had a septoplasty last May and had permission to run from the surgeon...as long as it was short, gentle, no impact and did not raise my blood pressure. Two and a half weeks of between 1.5 and 2k per day to keep the streak going...and prevent me going mad! In general I walked to the nearest playing field and jogged slowly on the grass.
Not sure I couldn't manage without many carbs: would be starving all the time I imagine! Or do you get used to that?