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The Middle Ground
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What are your plans now then DT and Dan? Some shorter stuff over the summer?
Been a quiet week so far, as only the one run to date (intervals on Wednesday night - 4x800 at just faster than 5k pace, off 3 minute jogged recoveries) but the plan is tempo tonight, short easy tomorrow and long run Sunday.
Few areas of stiffness in my back and neck since Wednesday's session, not sure if its connected or not.
Just entered a 5k race in late June, so foreseeable race plan looks like:
21 May - 10k
3 June - parkrun
25 June - 5k
Late July/early Aug - parkrun
30 Aug - 5k
As you can see, a 5k focus over the summer.
WP - any news from you recently? Silence doesn't imply injury I hope?
Still not ventured to any form of training yet. This blister on my foot is so uncomfortable. It is on the most awkward place of the foot to try and avoid putting pressure on. I have had to wear trainers to work today to give a little more cushioning.
My plan is to follow from mid may a 10k schedule in my book, but supplement it by maintaining myself with a 15 mile easy run. There are a few 10ks that are options over July then. I go on holiday first 2 weeks of August, then will come back and have about 9 weeks to get some long runs in if I am to do the Brum Marathon in mid October. I am not convinced it is feasible, but then having just run a marathon, I should be able to pick it up reasonably easily if I am maintained at 15 miles.
DT - sounds like a tight schedule for Brum.
I had no running plans this week ... just cycling. However, looks like my bike needs some work, so Sunday's longer cycle ride may now become my first post-mara run.
Dan - I'm going to be following the Jack Daniels 5k plan (actually described as 5k/10k plan in his book) which I used two years ago when I took off a lot of time and hit my pbs.
Tempo session this afternoon (or 'cruise intervals' in JD language) - 4 x 1mile at threshold pace off 90s rest. Threshold pace for me is listed as 7.35m/m (so about 10 seconds a mile slower than 10k pace). Might stretch the rests to 2 minutes.
4 x 3 mins with 90 secs recovery, off road and undulating was today's "speed" work, covering just over 700 metres per rep. Found it tough, but it is supposed to be! And that brought up day 1000, not that I realised until I entered it in the training log! Have been wondering about entering a second 5k series. Can't make my mind up!
Holidays: don't you train on holiday, DT? I always manage to get out somehow, very often first thing in the morning, or maybe early evening when others are showering/relaxing etc
Target pace was 7.35 (or 7.33 depending on whether I was looking at the book or the online calculator and depending on which recent race time I entered!) and the 4 miles came in at 7.29; 7.33; 7.28 and 7.34. So two miles on pace and two a little quick. Happy with the session overall though.
Alehouse, I do some light running on holiday but with young kids I don't get the chance to do anything that would be considered proper training. We often go out for the night around 7pm so with getting ready etc I'm occupied from 5.30.no certainly can't to anything that would be considered proper training.
Did spin earlier. Legs felt tired, particularly the quads. Hopefully that will have flushed them out a little.
Hopefully that'll help flush them though. Will persevere over the week. It's the local 10k next Sunday which I always run so hope to get some zip back by then.
Received my new marshals jacket today. Pretty decent quality so quite please forvthe price.
Dr.D, didn't see your LM report. Can you tell me where it is? DT too, nice run!
(Can't stand this new forum thing, still!)
Ratzer, my report is halfway down this page-
https://forums.runnersworld.co.uk/discussion/202026/overdone-it/p755
Hi Ratzer, yep that seems to be the logical step. I have to run 12 seconds a mile faster. I just need to work out the best way to get there ie just more consistent miles, some sharper stuff to push my threshold up for a bit, a mix of both...
Dan's Journey from Abingdon to London (via the Vale of York) - Part 4.
During the week before I ran last October’s Abingdon marathon, I was lucky enough to get one of the HPH club places at the London marathon in April 2017. I promised to blog about the training and the build up … Part 1 came just before Abbey Dash, my last race of 2016; Part 2 came just after parkrun on 7th Jan 2017; Part 3 just before Bradford 10K; and this is Part 4 - the final part! Pull up a seat – it’s a long one. ;-)
With 5 weeks to go until race day, I dodged the chance for another long run and instead had a crack at the Bradford 10K. Conditions were tougher than at Dewsbury and the legs were more fatigued, so I was happy enough with 41:48. I was even happier 6 days later at Woodhouse Moor parkrun when I bagged a rare sub-20 (19:56). Two days later came my 4th and final treadmill fuelling test at Leeds Beckett - another 17 miles of misery but I just kept telling myself it was helping science and that it was all good training! The next session of significance was the following Sunday (3 weeks to race day!) where I did 23 miles on the canal towpath at 8:55/m – comfortably below MP but close to the time I’d have to spend on my feet on race day. Everything in-between these various sessions/races consisted of either run or bike commuting (10-11 miles per day). This week ended up with 43 miles of running and 32 miles of bike ... I took the Saturday off and then went off to the Vale of York 10 mile to see if I could bank some of this fitness before taper began. As with all my races, I carb-loaded the evening before, despite training and living on a low carb diet. Conditions were perfect and I came in a minute faster than last year in 68:35. All good with 2 weeks to go! Time to taper.
Taper is a place where things can go wrong and in the past I have become a bit sluggish with the relative inactivity. Hence the plan was to have some hard sessions, while backing off the "filler" mileage. For this race, the situation was perfect as I was off work for Easter so could drop the run/bike commuting. I had a couple of days off after Vale of York, and then did a Lactate Threshold Test on the treddie at Leeds Beckett (my "reward" for being a guinea pig for those four long treadmill fuelling studies). Aside from being a tough session in itself, I also came away with some useful info telling me my LT pace was at 12 km/h (8:02 min/mi) ... very close to my planned MP (8 min/mi). I also got some pleasing blood lipid results back - seems the low carb nutrition had also pushed all my numbers in the right direction (TG & Ldl down, Hdl up). The only other session that week was parkrun - I planned to go all out for sub-20 again, but Woodhouse Moor was cancelled and so I did the hilly Temple Newsam in 20:50. With 1 week to go, I ran 10 miles at MP on Sunday, and then 3.6 miles easy on Tuesday, bike commuting on Wednesday, and finally 3.6 miles with 4 x 400m intervals on Thursday (immediately followed by carb-loading). And that was it. So much time, thought and sweat invested ... I just needed to execute. But I'd been here in 2014 when I got a ballot place ... that ended in 3:37:35 ... just under 2:40 at 20 but with a disastrous final 10K. I'd trained so hard for that race and it had ended in misery.
London! We travelled down on Friday evening and stayed in west London with my brother's family. On Saturday I had to go all the way across the city to ExCel to get my number and visit the Expo - it was crazily busy! In 2014 things had been simpler - it was school holidays and we went down early and did all the fun stuff on the Friday. So this time I made an effort not to get exhausted by traipsing around all the Expo stalls – instead I let the family look around while I took a seat, ate food, and listened to the "advice" from various speakers on the central stage. Then it was back west, lots of carbs and kit checking, and an early-ish night.
The Plan. The maths for sub-3:30- is easy ... 8 min/mile. After Abingdon's 3:31:02 PB, when I'd consciously attempted to improve my fat burning metabolism (see Part 1), I managed the final 4.2 miles more than 4 min quicker than at London ’14... but still at 8:43/mi. This is where I hoped to make the difference this time. I believed that there was scope to squeeze more from the metabolic approach but, as I read into the scientific literature, I realised that you basically become fat-adapted within 3-4 weeks of carb-restricted training and it was becoming clear to me that it was very likely I'd already got there last year. So the low carb training was now more about keeping things topped up, and keeping the weight down, rather than making more gains. However, I did believe that I was in better shape than at Abingdon and that I could beat that PB time and get under 3:30.
I'd been taking on a lot of carbs since the 4x400m on Thursday ... the main aim of tweaking my metabolism to become a fat-burner was not to avoid using carbs but to enable me to conserve my carb stores over the marathon ... carbs produce more ATP per oxygen molecule and so are more useful than fat when working hard and oxygen is limited ... but this time I hoped I would still have some left to utilise in the final 10K. So the plan was simple ... set off at 8 min/mi ... first gel (SIS) at 20 min ... remaining 5 gels every 20 min ... no more fuelling after 2 hours (to avoid gut issues) and rely on my conserved stores ... drink only water ... and run at 8 min/mi for 26.2 miles. Easy. Ha!
Race Day! I was up early as I needed to leave the house at 06:30. Breakfast was 4 slices of toast and honey. On the train to Waterloo, I ate a couple of energy bars I'd picked up at ExCel. I also had a couple of small bananas (which I saved until I was at Blue Start).
I felt very lucky very privileged as I approached Blue Start. I had thought 2014 was my only chance - I'm not good enough for GFA but after many attempts I'd finally got a ballot place for '14 and I'd trained really hard. But it ended badly. To get a 2nd chance via the Hyde Park Harriers club ballot 3 years later was very special - I was here again and I had a chance to put things right. Since then I'd done Nottingham '14, Dublin '14, and then Abingdon in '16. I’d learned a lot but I hadn’t yet cracked the code.
Being at Blue Start again was useful - it was familiar ... there was a lot of time to kill but this time I knew what to expect and I'd come with a plan. I took it all in - I appreciated it all - and I felt very privileged. BUT I did not get excited. I had a plan. I was here to execute it. No messing up this time.
On arrival ... obligatory photos ... then the mega-efficient toilet queue ... after that I found my baggage truck and made my base nearby. I ate my bananas, drank my water, had a snooze, and made use of the Vaseline. I waited until 9:25 before giving over my bag. It was still cold, so I kept my gloves, popped on a bin bag and headed for the pens. It was still early and I was getting cold, so I did a bit of light jogging before entering Pen 4. First thing I noticed was the 3:30 pacer was in Pen 3 with a hoard in between ... not much chance of sticking near him then! The hot air balloons were taking off and the helicopters whizzing around. I tried to take it all it. Such a special event! Great to be here ... but my mistake last time was going too fast in the first 5 miles... so focus focus focus!! After a gradual walk towards the start line with plenty of chit chat and banter, we were finally off.
The Race! I crossed the line with the clock on about 1:50ish and made a mental note in case anything went wrong with my watch. I was definitely further back than in '14 and it seemed to be very congested ... no problem, I thought, as I needed to go slow. Miles 1 and 2 came in at 8:31 and 8:13. After that things started to clear as we hit the downhill section ... 7:22, 7:49 and 7:45 for 3, 4 & 5 ... a bit fast but not concerned given the terrain and the fact I was 2 minutes slower than my over-ambitious 2014 start. Nevertheless, time to get focussed and control the pace ... 8:01, 7:55, 7:55, 8:05, 8:05 ... brought me up to 10 miles. I was about 30s in front of target but was actually feeling pretty rubbish ... my legs felt jaded and my feet were hurting (especially my right sole – too much Vaseline!). My heart rate had also been knocking on the door of 140 bpm ever since mile 4 ... in training, MP was a stable 132 bpm over 10 miles. Worrying. Very worrying. But I kept running to the plan. 7:55, 8:01, 7:53. Tower Bridge ... the Red Start 3:30 pacer came past with his disciples in tow ... half way in 1:44:27 (a minute slower than '14) ... then 8:05, 8:05 and 7:55 to get me to 16 miles. We had now passed Canary Wharf for the first time and were on the Isle of Dogs ... it was hot and it was hard work. 8:16 and 8:15 – the 3:30 pacer started to gradually pull away and think I was mentally ready for the worst. I got to 30K in 2:29:30ish ... OK, but I'd been here before ... and the last time the wheels came off. I looked out for my family and thankfully spotted them - stopped for a quick hug and then went on. Felt better now but was thinking that it must be time for the wheels to come off ... but until they did, I kept on running. 8:06 and at 20 miles in just over 2:40 – a tad slower than ’14 and 90s slower than Abo ’16. Just about on target but it was now getting hard. And it soon became absolutely grim. But this time the wheels didn't fall off at 20... 8:06, 8:04, 7:59 ... now at mile 23! A minute down on my Abo ’16 split. The legs said stop but I was here now and I maybe I wasn't coming back. So I just kept running. And I was passing so many people. They were grinding to a halt but I wasn't. But this was just as hard as any other marathon I'd been in. Maybe worse. I lost track of where I was, missing the mile markers as I just focussed on moving forward. I was in a dark place that only someone who has run a marathon knows about. Finally I spotted Big Ben ... part of me still believed that sub-30:30 was possible, so I kept on pushing. In the end, those last 3.2 miles came in at 8:04 mi/mi, and in the last 7.2K I gained 641 places... only 26 people passed me, while I passed 667. I'd done 7 marathons and it had never happened before. But I can't say I enjoyed it – it was grim work.
In the end I crossed the line in 3:30:14 ... 48 s off my PB but still 15 seconds away from a perfect day... but I had no regrets. The splits were 1:44:27 first half and 1:45:47 for the second – given all the downhill is in the first half, that’s probably as close to an even split as I could have hoped for. Maybe I could have gained those extra 15 seconds at the start ... or on the Isle of Dogs ... perhaps ... but I know for sure that I could not have run that last 7K any faster than I did.
So at last I feel like I am a marathon runner. London is a very special race – impeccable organisation and unbelievable support. Thank you Hyde Park Harriers for making it possible.
I’m ready to crack 3:30 at Chester in October.
Except that I now have to become a temporary triathlete ... Leeds ITU Olympic distance next in June!
Well done, Dr Dan. It is indeed a special event and I almost feel a sense of responsibility to use my GFA. 1000s would snatch my hand off for it.
Regarding HR I always train to 160-165 hr for mp dependant how far the session is, however London this year and last both produced average hrs of around 173 and both times going beyond 165 way before 10 miles.
The summary of my London is rather more brief than yours:
* Calf injury 2 weeks out from race day, so no running at all in taper until 2 days before (3 miles test run)
* Because of recent injury decided to just run without a target time and settled into a 3.45 pace (PB 3.34)
* I felt sluggish and heavy from the start and not as comfortable by mile 6 as I should have been
* Mile 18 and my head went...that little demon on my shoulder said 'do some walking if you're tired!'
* And so I did...and again. In fact I probably had 5 X 100m or so walking breaks in the last 6 miles
* When I got running again, I was back on pace, but that little f***er on my shoulder just overwhelmed me.
* Finished at 4.02
On reflection I think the lack of purpose subconsciously 'gave me permission' to walk when the going got tough. It was the first time in my 9 marathons that I've walked.
It was my 3rd and last London Marathon -it was a privilege to do it again but perhaps it was one too many as it didn't quite have the same buzz about it for me.
Move on
First session of the week for me this evening - intervals. Last week did 4x0.5m at 7m/m (technically 6:58m/m according to the book!) off 3 min jog recovery. Upped it to 5 reps this evening and all felt good. Rep times were 3.27; 3.30; 3.27; 3.29; 3.28 so all nicely on pace.
SSLHP- Sounds like the story of so many from London this year. I think with a marathon there has to be a defined goal and you have to be on for it at 18 miles otherwise the chimp will always win!
Good consistent reps, Andrew. Is that on a track or a flat bit of road?
I am still ticking along, however I have come down with some form of upper resp tract infection (which I was more than due) which isn't quite a cold but leaving me groggy so continuing to plod out slow and short.
Andrew, this article might interest you (professionally)-
https://www.geldards.com/geldards-lawyer-dons-trainers-for-firms-charity.aspx
Essentially the guy got caught out by the results sleuths who look for anomalies in splits that make it certain they cheated. He has had his results removed by organisers.
He raised money for Barnados who were his firms charity of the year and no doubt got some reasonable profile raising media from it. Whilst I would never be so cruel to refer it, I wonder what the SRA and his firm would make of it.
DT - I wonder if he will be at risk of his job. Bringing the firm's name into disrepute cannot go down well I wouldn't expect!
I do my intervals (and tempo) runs in a part of town that is flattish. Nothing too major either up or down, but certainly not pancake flat. I try to keep the reps varied so that each one is about equal in difficulty (rather than having one predominantly downhill and the next uphill).
The only track nearby to us does not seem to allow for 'pay as you go' usage, at least not so far as their website would indicate. I am also very tight on time when I do these sessions, so couldn't waste 10 minutes driving to the track and the same on the way back (it is about 4 miles away, so too far to use as a warm up and warm down).
This afternoon is an easy run, before tempo Friday (3 miles continuous). Saturday also sees the start of the cricket season, so that should sufficiently knacker me to make Sunday's long run interesting ;-)
Dr.D, congratulations on a PB! I especially enjoyed your comment about feeling like a marathon runner. Do you want to do it again? Faster?
SSLHP, last time I messed up the last few weeks of training/taper, I pulled out. I have never managed to figure out if I regret that or not! Definitely I've regretted it in the longer run. Whilst it seems to be a coach's mantra to not run if you're not quite on form, giving yourself permission to let such an event pass can be the beginning of a slippery slope down to taking the easy way out all the time. I like your attitude that the whole program was a beneficial and enjoyable journey, and the event is just one day in it.
Really had to dig deep to finally achieve sub 40 on this course, in 39.47. Bodes well for a 10k pb in a few months as I'm usually a minute slower here than other courses.
Well done DT - remind us what your pb is?
Tempo session went well on Friday, target mile pace for the tempo section was 7.33. Warm up mile followed by 3 at tempo which came out at 7.27; 7.30 and 7.23(!) then a warm down mile. So possibly slightly quick (or the target pace is too slow and I need a race to re-calibrate my training paces from?).
Long run yesterday went much better than expected. After a heavy week and a cricket match thrown in, it came out at about 9.10m/m pace over 7 miles, so 1:04:10 which overall was about a minute quicker than the last twice I've gone as far as 7 miles. Last mile was 8.5x so obviously I was still fresh(ish) at the end.
Cutback week this week, so only 17 miles planned and only 2 sessions (tempo and long run).