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The Middle Ground
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Then again, I had a few injuries recently, so maybe need to change something for next year.
Interesting reading Dan - I'm assuming that not much of it would be relevant to racing a shorter distances, but it is interesting to read of the different approaches and sciences behind marathon running - it seems like a whole different beast!
JGav - you are right that perhaps there is a correlation between not running your easy miles slower, and the injuries - I certainly found that to be the case in the past.
Last night was intervals night - basically the same session I did two weeks ago (4x500m at c7m/m) but off 90 second recoveries rather than 2 mins. Felt much easier than 2 weeks ago, and I think actually 60 seconds recovery would have been ample. 3 of the reps came in at around 6.50-7m/m pace and the last at 6.30 pace. Appreciate that these interval sessions are currently low volume and that I need to crank them up a bit.
Good news with the intervals Andrew. As regards the relevance of my post to shorter distances, I think pushing back LT is always a good thing ...although some focussed speed work is needed too. Nevertheless, I've managed to bag a sub-20 parkrun and a 1 mile PB this year.
The plan now is to recover and then focus more on 5K/10K.... however if I can bag a place at Brass Monkey HM, then I'll focus on that first. The last 3 races in our club road champs are all 10Ks - 29th Oct, 5th Nov and early Feb. The first 2 are a little too soon after Chester.
Hope DT is wrapped in cotton wool with a face-mask on.
http://www.chesterchronicle.co.uk/news/chester-cheshire-news/friends-hail-tragic-chester-marathon-13741001
Similar age to me with an impressive 3:13 marathon time from 2016 VLM. I saw him on the ground in the last mile and shouted for help from the nearby supporters... there were marshals running towards him.
News from me, I can now walk without limping. It's taken me nearly 3 days since my HM on Sunday. How painful must it be after a full mara.
Yes it is extremely sad when this happens. I note he was running the shorter event as well.
My marathon recovery depends largely on if I have blisters! This year my legs were much more battered than in 2016 because I wore a much lower profile and lighter race shoe so had less cushioning. That was fine though, I was mobile by midweek, however the blister on my right foot stopped me walking on it for nearly 2 weeks. I am hoping that the vaporflys speed recovery substantially. The 2 halfs I have raced them in I felt fine the following morning, however the flats I used for the half I ran at mp left my legs tired until midweek.
Feeling decent today after yesterdays light session and sports massage. Had nearly 9 hours sleep last night which I intend to target all this week. I have another much lighter massage tomorrow evening and planning 3.5 at recovery with strides tomorrow morning. Unbelievable the weather is forecasting unseasonably warm weather from Friday with it hitting high teens over the weekend. hopefully with an 8.30 start I will miss the warmest of it!
I did a tempo session this afternoon after work. Last two weeks have seen sessions of 2 miles, then 2 miles 90 secs rest and 1 more mile at tempo, so this week the step up was to 3 miles continuous. Target pace 7:30m/m.
First mile was a bit lumpy pace wise (probably need more than a mile's warm up if I'm honest, but struggle to find the time to extend the session even further) and was 7:40. Next was better at 7:20 and of course I couldn't have mile 3 slower than that, so came in at 7:17 after easing off a bit at the end to stop it being about 7:10!
Felt ok, and looking back those last 2 miles were pretty much at the same pace as similar sessions three months ago when I considered myself to be in better shape than I am now.
Hope all your training is going well...and good luck DT this Sunday. Fingers crossed for the time you want and have worked hard towards achieving (not just the last few months at that). Always another chance if nothing happens this time.
The only running related things I might be doing other than the occasional plod will be going to Abingdon next week to support a former colleague and my brother who is racing. A few might remember me mentioning him some years back when he debuted at sub 1:30 in his first half. I expect him to be fairly high up the places next weekend bar any meltdown and would not bet against a sub 2:30 marathon next year or 2019 the way its going for him recently. A big statement to make but made a similar one five or so years back after that half and he is now closing in on that level (hard work and a good run clear on injuries being key recently). Maybe once family commitments and the like settle down here I can then get some form back - obviously nothing of his level and its bitter sweet seeing your sibling being called up to represent Wales at that too (NI cross country this weekend I believe unless I'm wrong there and a visit to France earlier this year).
Thats enough of me for now until things improve here. Until then keep at it all and keep enjoying it!
4.5 easy paced miles for me on Friday and a long run of 6 miles yesterday. Brings up 20 for the week for the first time in two months.
Finally, good luck today DT - smash it!!
well done on the miles, Andrew.
Sadly a bad day for me. Pretty tough course with over 1000 foot of climb. Went out on target and was sat there at 30k split. The rot set in at mile 16. For some reason I struggled to take on anything other than water and that caught up with me. Came in 3.07.00 which was very disappointing as I'm in much better shape, even on a tough course. I guess I took a chance going after sub 3 and perhaps had I been a little more modest and gone just to shave some off my pb I might have faired better. Still a comfortable GFA time and 2nd fastest Mara. Finished 108th of circa 8000.
I suggest you back off for two or three weeks and then hopefully cash in on the accrued fitness. Will be interesting to see how your legs feel over the next few days. Remember it wasn't a bad run: just not up to hopes or expectations.
Yes, Dr Dan I think it's a mix of both. Obviously I have spent last 24 hours over analysing matters.
I only entered this Mara as a step towards London next year to maintain my endurance. I never expected to attempt sub 3.
I have resolved that one thing I need to sort out over coming months is my ability to take gels.
Very few people didn't fade away yesterday. The climbing at 17-22 was a killer. Runbritain rated difficulty as 2.4 (London usually has 1.0) and gave me -0.1 performance which is my first minus performance rating for a Mara.
What I need to do now is not what I did after London where I basically took 8 weeks or so out of any real training and put on about half a stone and lost about 10 seconds per mile off ability. I then just started to claw it back then went on holiday for 2 weeks in August.
I need to recover and recycle starting from close to current fitness as a platform and improve from that as opposed a negative position.
Don't feel too sore today, with exception of my quads which obviously had a lot to do.
Here is my mile by mile analysis from strava. columns are
mile pace gradient adjusted pace elevation hr cadence
A few things are apparent. In London my pacing was robustly consistent, however here it varies wildly. You can see the problem kick in at mile 16 as that was downhill and just off pace. The problem then was that 4 of the next 4 miles were uphill and into the wind. Whilst mile 22 is a net downhill there was a big bloody climb followed by coming down the otherside. Mile 26 was crushingly difficult and even looking at the strava data for a guy I know who finished 5th, this mile crushed his pace.
Its also noteable that how my hr dropped. I think miles 10-12 where it went over 170 possibly did the damage. I was basically climbing into a headwind but didn't adjust the effort for fear of loosing the group I was in, who in reality were going too fast for me.
DT - interesting stuff. I looked at it and thought two other things were noticeable too:
1) HR doesn't increase in the latter (slower miles) despite the fact that you are obviously struggling more - I would think, without any real knowledge to back it up, that this suggests a good underlying aerobic fitness? My which I mean that someone poorly trained would see more cardiac drift as they tire, whereas you avoid that?
2) Your cadence is almost identical throughout.
A couple of those miles do look like bastards though, especially mile 26! The course was obviously designed by a sadist!
Just cycling still for me ... albeit mainly staying upright in all this wind.
I don't pay much attention to cadence and it's odd to see it stay the same despite pace.
The bizarre thing I said to a friend today, my mentality is well set in that when it went wrong there was 9-10 miles left. Mentally I just popped that into the lunchtime jog mental compartment and it didn't trouble me. I knew it wouldn't be pleasant but it just didn't seem very far to tolerate it. I think the trick is to keep peddling in a marathon. The minute you break and decide to stop you will run walk the remainder. I got to 25.9 miles without stopping. It didn't matter from there.
legs still sore. Managed 5k at recovery this evening. Sports massage tomorrow.
Did this week's interval session last night. 4x600m off 90 secs rest, within a 5 mile run once warm up and warm down are included. Intervals came in at 6.52, 6.45, 6.48 and 6.54 pace, which were all pretty much around my target pace of 6.50 and similar to the paces I had done the 500m reps last week.
This training cycle is so short now, that I am simply trying to get myself to some kind of reasonable fitness and am not expecting too much, so am comfortable that I don't really have the time to rachet up the volume of these sessions to what they should be in the time available.
Easy run either tonight or tomorrow night depending on the weather forecast, and a rest day on the other, before tempo session on Friday.
Having moved away from running over the years and at the grand old age of 28 I thought I would charge up the garmin and see how it goes!!
glad to see some familiar faces still here,going strong and I'll now have to open another Guinness and have a read back, not from were I left off 7 years ago though!!!lol ??
Did my tempo run on Friday, same as the previous week i.e. 1 mile warm up, 3 miles tempo, 1 warm down. Tempo miles were 7.24, 7.27 and 7.19. Much better consistency than the previous week, so I was fairly happy with that.
Long run today.
3 mile at 8.43/mile, not quite as painful as I thought,glad to get it done. Crossfit has helped keep some fitness!?
AndrewD- nice consistent tempo run for you, hope you enjoy the long one.
Had a good read back last night,some great running going on here,as always. Glad to see some origionals Curly & Dr Dan etc still going strong. ?Is Duck and other still here or have they moved on over the years?
Duck is still going strong ... in contact with most of the old crew on bookface.
First run post marathon was a 20:56 parkrun with a severe stitch between 2 and 4K... good enough for 1st v50-54 though. 500 miles of driving since, so no Sunday run for me. 10K races the next 2 Sundays... not expecting much but need to turn out as they're part of our club road race champs.
Some nice post post marathon running,I'm sure you were delighted to break the sub 3.30??
I wondered do any of you have any experience with wearing orthotics (plastic) while running. Since I've last been running I've been wearing orthotics in everday/gym shoes. Anyone wear their orthotics with neutral shoes or just a stability shoe for overpronator?
nice solid intervals, Andrew.
Hi Guinness and garmins. Why did you stop running?
I don't wear such things but I did at one point have risers strategically placed into my insoles to try and correct a problem.
Easy week for me. About 20 miles running all right in the recovery zone, culminating with 7 miles today. Felt like I was coming off a massive week of training so clearly much more recovery needed.
Always knew I would come back to running as it was something I loved for so long, so here I am now,an ol' married man and bambino on the way, no better time than now to get used to early mornings and lack of sleep!lol
i had previously worn stability shoes but definetly found a help with orthotics in normal foot wear,just can't imagine wearing them for any distance/speed.